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I'm having a bit of a dilemma here. I'm going for a hybrid Guard list that combines mechanized IG and gunline IG, and an objective sitting platoon with auto cannons to bubble wrap my Hydras sounds like a good idea to me. I just can't seem to decide on a special weapon for the infantry squads. Melta guns are far too close range, I'm very underwhelmed by Grenade launchers after several uses, and flamers would not jive with their role either. Plasma guns are all that's left, but with BS3 and at 15 points I'm not sure I could justify giving them to regular Guardsmen. Would you guys leave them with no specials and cram in more squads just for the heavy weapon? Or is there a special weapon I'm overlooking?

Personally i'd just forget about it and use the points elsewhere but you could give Snipers ago; they aint great but the occasional Rend and Pinning Test is an alright use of a back line objective holder also helps to put wounds on MCs. I've had about the same amount on success with Snipers in my Autocannon Blobs as i have with Grenade Launchers but that 36" range does let you reach out a little.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

RubberJonny wrote:Personally i'd just forget about it and use the points elsewhere but you could give Snipers ago; they aint great but the occasional Rend and Pinning Test is an alright use of a back line objective holder also helps to put wounds on MCs. I've had about the same amount on success with Snipers in my Autocannon Blobs as i have with Grenade Launchers but that 36" range does let you reach out a little.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

Yeah that's pretty much what I figured.

Would you consider giving power weapons to the objective sitters so they can defend themselves, or is that another case of finding better use for points elsewhere?

Melta guns. While at first it may seem counterintuitive to put metla guns on an AC packing unit that is sitting back and camping an objective remember a couple of things. Melta guns are inexpensive, and if you don't take melta guns a Rhino will just tank shock the platoon repeatedly causing both morale tests and the platoon to become more and more clumped. Drop pods with MM/HF dreads also like to land in a platoon's face if they don't have a melta gun.

The price of a melta gun is low, but the price of not having melta is high.

schadenfreude wrote: Melta guns. While at first it may seem counterintuitive to put metla guns on an AC packing unit that is sitting back and camping an objective remember a couple of things. Melta guns are inexpensive, and if you don't take melta guns a Rhino will just tank shock the platoon repeatedly causing both morale tests and the platoon to become more and more clumped. Drop pods with MM/HF dreads also like to land in a platoon's face if they don't have a melta gun.

The price of a melta gun is low, but the price of not having melta is high.

Hm... you DO raise a good point. I suppose they're a smart investment, and I shouldn't rely on other units to protect them if they're engaged elsewhere.

i'd lose the ACs in the platoons, personally.
if you need them to move to guard the Hydras, they
won't be shooting the Acs.

and i second the Meltagun suggestion.

schadenfreude wrote: Melta guns. While at first it may seem counterintuitive to put metla guns on an AC packing unit that is sitting back and camping an objective remember a couple of things. Melta guns are inexpensive, and if you don't take melta guns a Rhino will just tank shock the platoon repeatedly causing both morale tests and the platoon to become more and more clumped. Drop pods with MM/HF dreads also like to land in a platoon's face if they don't have a melta gun.

The price of a melta gun is low, but the price of not having melta is high.

To an extent but you've got to take into account the rest of the army. I'm sure he has anti-tank covered and as for the Rhino (and other light tanks) Autocannons take care of them well enough and, if need be, it can be glanced to death with Frag Grenades.

creeping-deth87 wrote:Would you consider giving power weapons to the objective sitters so they can defend themselves, or is that another case of finding better use for points elsewhere?

Yeah i do take PWs in my Gunline blobs. Obviously they're good for doing damage in close combat but they also make a great deterrent for units like Tactical Squads that although not great CC fighters they wouldn't usually fear assaulting squishy Guard if they needed to move them away from an objective for example.

If you're not threatened by Assault units getting to them then take Melta-Guns.

Peace!

I think I've decided to go with auto cannons, melta guns and power weapons. It certainly makes the squad more expensive, but the versatility and the survivability should make up for that. Thanks for all your input guys, you've all been very helpful.

I'd consider splitting off the autocannons into HWTs, that way your melta/CC unit can actually keep on the move so you have more chances to use those weapons.

I had this dilema not too long ago during a re-think of my armys layout. You need to ask yourself. What would each special weapon bring to the table? I found it's usually better not giving static units a special weapon at all. The only specials I keep in the platoons is a flamer for a blobbed platoon which presses up the board behind another platoon armed only with melta bombs.

Look at the choices.

Flamer - good for units getting close up or planning to charge. Poor for units that will be keeping distance. Not a very effective upgrade against MEQ's but it's cheap.

Grenade launcher - Doesn't really shine in many scenario's. It's outclassed by the other special options in most roles. Better to spend a few points more on a weapon which WILL do what it says on the tin.

Sniper Rifle - A poor choice in most area's except ratlings but even then its questionable. Decent range but only really shines against high toughness models like MC's. Even then, a plasma gun can usually perform far better, albeit, for 10 points more.

Melta gun - 10 pts isn't a bad deal for a reasonable threat to vehicles but is the unit in question planning on moving up field where it can get into range? And then would it be a better choice to give the sergeant melta bombs instead? The melta is best left in dedicated anti-tank units like vets or PCS's. If you want some anti-tank but arn't sure whether the unit will need it then take the melta bombs. It's a cheaper upgrade but lacks the extra range. A good choice when you have many infantry squads.

Plasma gun - 15pts isn't a cheap upgrade but the gun is fairly reliable at taking down enemies (even if it is fairly unreliable since it can vaporize the firer) Once again, its usually better to save the plasma for dedicated units, preferably with BS4. CCS or vets. One plasma gun won't stop a unit of termies but three or four can wipe the board of them.

Deceiver wrote:I had this dilema not too long ago during a re-think of my armys layout. You need to ask yourself. What would each special weapon bring to the table? I found it's usually better not giving static units a special weapon at all. The only specials I keep in the platoons is a flamer for a blobbed platoon which presses up the board behind another platoon armed only with melta bombs.

Look at the choices.

Flamer - good for units getting close up or planning to charge. Poor for units that will be keeping distance. Not a very effective upgrade against MEQ's but it's cheap.

Grenade launcher - Doesn't really shine in many scenario's. It's outclassed by the other special options in most roles. Better to spend a few points more on a weapon which WILL do what it says on the tin.

Sniper Rifle - A poor choice in most area's except ratlings but even then its questionable. Decent range but only really shines against high toughness models like MC's. Even then, a plasma gun can usually perform far better, albeit, for 10 points more.

Melta gun - 10 pts isn't a bad deal for a reasonable threat to vehicles but is the unit in question planning on moving up field where it can get into range? And then would it be a better choice to give the sergeant melta bombs instead? The melta is best left in dedicated anti-tank units like vets or PCS's. If you want some anti-tank but arn't sure whether the unit will need it then take the melta bombs. It's a cheaper upgrade but lacks the extra range. A good choice when you have many infantry squads.

Plasma gun - 15pts isn't a cheap upgrade but the gun is fairly reliable at taking down enemies (even if it is fairly unreliable since it can vaporize the firer) Once again, its usually better to save the plasma for dedicated units, preferably with BS4. CCS or vets. One plasma gun won't stop a unit of termies but three or four can wipe the board of them.

A very sensible breakdown. I'm still leaning toward the melta gun, mostly because I find myself usually confronted by very aggressive players who close the distance quickly. I would agree with you that meltas are best on dedicated units for the role, which puts me in a tough spot. I suppose only having the heavy weapon wouldn't be so bad.

I would disagree on the flamer being a good choice for combined platoons. With the size and footprint of the unit, it can be difficult to get the model where you want it. Also, I've ruined too many charges by inflicting just enough wounds to be out of range in the assault phase.

Plasma guns aren't horrible on static squads (although I still feel they should have been 10 points), since they can be practically guaranteed an order to help vs. cover saves or vehicles/MCs.

The thing with adding plasma is that its an expensive gun for a 5pt man. You can make the most of it by giving it to a BS4 unit and shooting rapidfire. Adding plasma guns here there and everywhere is very costly. It does bring extra killing power to the table but at a large cost. You can still manage the same job with single units tooled up with plasma.

As for the melta-gun to prevent enemy from getting too close. I think your taking a special weapon for the sake of it. If a 10 man tactical squads going to charge this infantry unit a single melta gun isn't going to do jack all. Scrap the melta and instead look into a containment plan. Either send something to cut the attacking force off with a counter charge or allow the infantry squad to be wiped out and finish the tact marines as they consolodate. Two excellent units for this are power blobs just behind your gunline or a demolisher. The demolisher may be short ranged but it should be able to provide cover more than a handful of units.

And finally about the flamers in the infantry blobs Yeah they can be a pain to get into ideal positions and can ruin a charge but if you have to weigh up the odds. If you think you'll kill too many enemy models to put the enemy out of charging distance then don't fire. Better to lose a few shots than to lose the charge. As for positioning, Thats tricky, you need to anticipate where the opponants going to meet your blob and move the flamers to that rough area. Takes a little practice but its usually worth the effort.

I would have to agree with the other players snipers would be a good choice as i get a ridiculous amount of 6's and the rending effect always annoys my friend who plays SM.

Selafyne wrote:I would have to agree with the other players snipers would be a good choice as i get a ridiculous amount of 6's and the rending effect always annoys my friend who plays SM.

This is the worst possible reason. "I use loaded dice, and/or have selective memory, so this option is good!"

Omegus wrote:

Selafyne wrote:I would have to agree with the other players snipers would be a good choice as i get a ridiculous amount of 6's and the rending effect always annoys my friend who plays SM.

This is the worst possible reason. "I use loaded dice, and/or have selective memory, so this option is good!"

I get what you mean i am just saying i have a lot of luck with it seriously in my army i roll loads of 6's with snipers it's not a selective memory or loaded dice i use gw ones on the other hand i have never hit a lascannon shot with my heavy weapons squad which always annoys me.

I would consider 2 approaches: one, take a heavy weapon (so autocannon/missile/lascannon) in each squad and leave it at that. GLs or plasmaguns are a matter of taste so you don't have to include them.

Or, take a meltagun as well. Maybe even power weapons and a power weapon commissar. This is an approach that will be necessary against lots of tank-shock or assault oriented opponents. Hell, against orks or some tyranids, flamers would be good to protect your objectives.

Basically, take a look at the armies that give you trouble, and take the weapons that will defend your objectives from their objective-takers.

I'll echo what others have said. ACs in gunline squads are a good investment. Forgoe the points for a plasma/meltagun and use them to bolster other squads. If you really want power weapons then I'd tool out my platoon command squad for assault and have them counter any units that weather the fire o their approach.

CadianXV wrote:I'll echo what others have said. ACs in gunline squads are a good investment. Forgoe the points for a plasma/meltagun and use them to bolster other squads. If you really want power weapons then I'd tool out my platoon command squad for assault and have them counter any units that weather the fire o their approach.

but the problem with giving the officer the Pweapon is he only has 4 wounds(other sqd. mates) before he's gone. even just an inf. squad
doubles the amount of wounds you have. stick 3-4 in 30 to 40 man blobs and they'll last a wee bit longer.

I've found that a 30 man platoon with:
1. 3x meltaguns
2. 3x Meltabombs, power weapons, plasma pistols on sgt.'s
3. A commie with power weapon and plasma pistol and meltabomb.
4. A heavy weapon squad or two to support. I reccomend autocannons and lascannons.
5. Put straken with a chimera nearby, and that 31 man uber blob gets counter attack and furious charge.
6. put 4 meltaguns in straken's unit, and they can pop whatever vehicle or transport comes at your objective holder,
allowing straken to order the 30 man blob to decimate whatever stumbles out of its exploded transport.

Now fit that platoon into your army, support them, and watch whatever comes at your objective get slaughtered.
another idea might be to try playing 10 man squads as tank hunters. meltaguns, meltabombs, power weapons, chimera, multi laser, heavy bolter, hunter killer missile, and luck.

Yes i am evil.

Dice_Junkie wrote:I've found that a 30 man platoon with:
1. 3x meltaguns
2. 3x Meltabombs, power weapons, plasma pistols on sgt.'s
3. A commie with power weapon and plasma pistol and meltabomb.
4. A heavy weapon squad or two to support. I reccomend autocannons and lascannons.
5. Put straken with a chimera nearby, and that 31 man uber blob gets counter attack and furious charge.
6. put 4 meltaguns in straken's unit, and they can pop whatever vehicle or transport comes at your objective holder,
allowing straken to order the 30 man blob to decimate whatever stumbles out of its exploded transport.

Now fit that platoon into your army, support them, and watch whatever comes at your objective get slaughtered.
another idea might be to try playing 10 man squads as tank hunters. meltaguns, meltabombs, power weapons, chimera, multi laser, heavy bolter, hunter killer missile, and luck.

Yes i am evil.

You evil you! i like all of what you posted except for the plasma pistols.
and the 10 man tanks hunter's are also called Vet sqauds. they just can't handle the CC, but perfect for removing vehicles.
i'd personally drop the single P weapon and the HK, but that's just me.

Dice_Junkie wrote:I've found that a 30 man platoon with:
1. 3x meltaguns
2. 3x Meltabombs, power weapons, plasma pistols on sgt.'s
3. A commie with power weapon and plasma pistol and meltabomb.
4. A heavy weapon squad or two to support. I reccomend autocannons and lascannons.
5. Put straken with a chimera nearby, and that 31 man uber blob gets counter attack and furious charge.
6. put 4 meltaguns in straken's unit, and they can pop whatever vehicle or transport comes at your objective holder,
allowing straken to order the 30 man blob to decimate whatever stumbles out of its exploded transport.

I find that crap way way too expensive for what it can do. Those plasma pistols aren't really necessary when you have 3 meltaguns that can be twin-linked with an order. And when you overheat, you stand a 66% chance of losing a pricey model (especially commissar!).

And I've never bought the need for meltabombs, your odds of doing anything with them are so paperthin, that they've always been a waste of points for me.

This is not evil. This is madness.

Omegus wrote:

Dice_Junkie wrote:I've found that a 30 man platoon with:
1. 3x meltaguns
2. 3x Meltabombs, power weapons, plasma pistols on sgt.'s
3. A commie with power weapon and plasma pistol and meltabomb.
4. A heavy weapon squad or two to support. I reccomend autocannons and lascannons.
5. Put straken with a chimera nearby, and that 31 man uber blob gets counter attack and furious charge.
6. put 4 meltaguns in straken's unit, and they can pop whatever vehicle or transport comes at your objective holder,
allowing straken to order the 30 man blob to decimate whatever stumbles out of its exploded transport.

I find that crap way way too expensive for what it can do. Those plasma pistols aren't really necessary when you have 3 meltaguns that can be twin-linked with an order. And when you overheat, you stand a 66% chance of losing a pricey model (especially commissar!).

And I've never bought the need for meltabombs, your odds of doing anything with them are so paperthin, that they've always been a waste of points for me.

This is not evil. This is madness.

I agree, especially about the plasma pistols - each shot is a 1/9 chance to lose the model, with all its other upgrades.
Meltaguns, power weapons, commissar are all that is needed on an assault blob.

It's a risk, yes. But when you have 7 shots that negate a marine save, plus the rest of the flashlights, you can guarantee anything you shoot will die and not have remnants left over. The platoon is designed to outright kill a unit in one volley.

Yea, you might kill your own guys, but st.7, ap2 is nothing to sneeze at. Especially when it's a pistol, allowing you to discharge heavy firepower and still charge. St. 7 can take out transports, and termies. Just try it out. I use this set up on a regular and my opponents hate me. You can jink the points and some weapons around a little, but it works.

It's guard infantry, and it is going to die. I think the opportunity to take a marine squad apart at the POSSIBLE cost of a model or two is worth it. Who cares if it's the enemy's fire or your own that does it.

it's not madness... it's sparta!

No, just madness. I would much rather just take a few shots from the meltas and then charge in to finish them off with the power weapons. Not to mention that now your relatively flimsy guard squad is worth more than a full squad of greyhunters with a vehicle. And then some.