Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When I read somewhere that the SM codex said ALL SM aspire to be smurfs, I had to go read it for myself. Sure enough the new codex basically is a slap in the face to any SM that aren't smurfs! It even states that original chapters with their own Primarchs aspire to be ultrasmurfs in the line Guilliman. I find it frustrating and tiresome. I didn't have a lot of problems with the vanilla SM codices focusing on smurfs as an example of a standard SM force. They are the originators of the Codex Astartes.

BUT to state that every other chapter to include even the Imperial Fists and other original founding chapters 'want to be Ultramarines' is just insulting. Why don't they just stop supporting any other chapters and only sell ultramarines!

I know I am ranting but it is wearing on my nerves a little, and it feels better to rant. Flame on!

PS: And a perfect example of a chapter that obviously doesn't want to be smurfs, is my beloved Silver Skulls! And they are a smurfs successor chapter! (there is a great collection of Silver Skull canon at bolterandchainsword.com)

DOWN WITH THE SMURF!

Yep, I'm definately tired of all that BS too. I doubt my Dark Angels would want to be smurfs. Besides, what's so good about them? THEY'RE SO BLAND! They're really just the archetype hero in the 40K millenium. And of course they have practically never lost a single battle.

I don't particularly care...
I can understand why others might but apart from that i find it hard to give a damn.

The Mortifactors are also Ultramarines successors. If you've read Warriors of Ultramar, they definitely didn't want to be Ultramarines, and they in turn were horrified by what their Gene-seed descendents had become...

There's precious little of any of the fluff written these days that I actually enjoy. Chalk it up to age, or decline in quality, whichever suits you best. So I don't care.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:DOWN WITH THE SMURF!

Yep, I'm definately tired of all that BS too. I doubt my Dark Angels would want to be smurfs. Besides, what's so good about them? THEY'RE SO BLAND! They're really just the archetype hero in the 40K millenium. And of course they have practically never lost a single battle.

Ahh but they're not, they're truly not. Graham McNeill has done a good job of giving the facade of being the pinnacle of the Imperium, paragons of virtue. But he's given them a subtle undercurrent of being so terrified of failure or change that they rigidly adhere to the blessed Codex Astartes where they ought to be flexible. Captain Uriel Ventris is banished from the Chapter for the gross crime of going off the beaten track to save a planet from the Hive Fleet - and succeeding. The Ultramarines are so rigidly bound that they hamstring themselves.

Even the great Primarch Guilleman says, in the latest Heresy Omnibus, that "This tome is not meant to be an exclusive guide, men must decide on their course of action based on the situation, one book cannot prescribe everything." And, like much knowledge, this too is lost, leaving the Ultramarines desperately clinging onto their book in a failing Imperium...

SickSix wrote:BUT to state that every other chapter to include even the Imperial Fists and other original founding chapters 'want to be Ultramarines' is just insulting. Why don't they just stop supporting any other chapters and only sell ultramarines!

Hate to break up the hate fest, but you get that C:SM fluff was written from the UM point of view, right?

Black Templars. I highly doubt they even want to be associated with the Ultramarines, let alone BE them. I agree. Grey Knights too. Plus the Dorn successors are far too stubborn to be Ultramarines.
Ultramarines suck.

Frickin' Ultrasmurfs, man. Ruining my vibes.

Ultramarines, though... those cats are cool.

I say DIY chapters are the best. You can come up with your own fluff including the fact that does your chapter aspire to become like the Ultramarines (mine doesn't). I don't really like the smurfs that much myself but I think GW needs a poster boy for 40k and the smurfs were their choice. Yes, I would like to see someone else in that position but in the end the poster boys will always be hated no matter who they are.

Don't care. I play Orks.

So, there is only Waaaaagh!

I lurve Ultramarines.

Ultramarines are cool, but there's 999 other chapters. Give at least one of them a chance. I mean, come on!

UM's? They're just an easy to paint and instantly reconisable trophy to add onto my Land Raiders trophy racks.

I don't mind them at all. Fluffwise they are a good source of looking in on how an "ideal" Chapter would work and using that example to fluff out your own Chapter.

OP is just rumpsore the Ultramarines don't think highly of his special snowflake Chapter.

*Insert "Oh, it's THIS thread again" picture here*

Codex: Space Marines is, to all intents and purposes, Codex: Ultramarines. Such has it been and such will it always be, as the UMs are *the* generic, template Chapter on which all other Chapter's variances can be contrasted to.

L. Wrex

Um, all Hail the Warrior Kings of Ultramar of course!!

I love the description of the Ultramarines in First Heretic (just as I thought it should be). Guilliman is hardly the Marble Man, but still cool without being stupid or whiny.

The 4th Company stuff is good, and certainly gives the UM some flaws while still making them admirable.

As to the OP, no one really thinks the White Scars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, etc want to be UM... I think someone just got a little excitited or are talking about that in general, the other Space Marine chapters would like to have the foundation and Star Kingdom that the UM have.

I hate the bloody smurfs and their stupid squeeky songs

There is no way the Moomins, Clangers, Woodentops, Pogles or Herbs wish to be like the little blue annoying elf type pixie things.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I hate the bloody smurfs and their stupid squeeky songs

There is no way the Moomins, Clangers, Woodentops, Pogles or Herbs wish to be like the little blue annoying elf type pixie things.

Then why do you have a smurf as your avatar?

I mean, everything blue is a smurf, right?

Is the sky a Smurf?
is the sea a Smurf?
Is bluebottle a Smurf?
Is Happy the Cat wearing a silly whitecap?
I think not!

Happy the Cat is not a Smurf and you will be hearing from his solicitor!

The UM are the Romans... Marius changing the codex, 13th legion, enlightened Kingdom, large fleet, model of all others... etc. Come on, the Roman Legion in space, what's not to like?

Oh good, we need another one of these threads.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh good, we need another one of these threads.

We do? Oh, I'll just set one up then!

Amuses how many posts like that pop up on threads like this.

If you feel that the thread is pointless maybe call the mods to adjudicate?
Am sure you must be aware that there is no compulsion to view the thread so I won't say the obvious.

I know what you mean though Canuck but the OP only has 102 posts at the time of writing so may not be as sussed on the regularity of this topic.

It would be good if there was an automatic system that picked up on the thread title and referred the Topic Starter to a sticky and a list of previous discussions.
Wonder if it is possible?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh good, we need another one of these threads.

And you bumped it to the top. Good job.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Amuses how many posts like that pop up on threads like this.

If you feel that the thread is pointless maybe call the mods to adjudicate?
Am sure you must be aware that there is no compulsion to view the thread so I won't say the obvious.

I know what you mean though Canuck but the OP only has 102 posts at the time of writing so may not be as sussed on the regularity of this topic.

It would be good if there was an automatic system that picked up on the thread title and referred the Topic Starter to a sticky and a list of previous discussions.
Wonder if it is possible?

Someone suggested a "frequently discussed topics forum" in nutz and bolts once. Was shot down, but everytime I see one of these it convinces me we need it.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure it would prevent thread duplication, but at least it would give a quick way to link to a pre-existing thread on the subject, hopefully shutting down repeats relatively fast. Maybe time to raise the idea again?

htj wrote:That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure it would prevent thread duplication, but at least it would give a quick way to link to a pre-existing thread on the subject, hopefully shutting down repeats relatively fast. Maybe time to raise the idea again?

Legoburner was pretty thorough in why it wouldn't work.

I think collecting all "Ultrasmurfs are gay", "GW Sucks" and "I Hate Matt Ward" threads into one convenient place would be a huge plus for DakkaDakka.

Lobukia wrote:The UM are the Romans... Marius changing the codex, 13th legion, enlightened Kingdom, large fleet, model of all others... etc. Come on, the Roman Legion in space, what's not to like?

That is true until you look at Leman Russes upbringing

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

htj wrote:That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure it would prevent thread duplication, but at least it would give a quick way to link to a pre-existing thread on the subject, hopefully shutting down repeats relatively fast. Maybe time to raise the idea again?

Legoburner was pretty thorough in why it wouldn't work.

I think collecting all "Ultrasmurfs are gay", "GW Sucks" and "I Hate Matt Ward" threads into one convenient place would be a huge plus for DakkaDakka.

Well, shoot. If you ever feel like arguing for it again and need someone to stand in your corner, just give me a shout.