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So my newest Batrep is up from last weekend. You can check it out here:

http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2011/06/jotww-can-suck-it-local-rtt-batrep_03.html

Enjoy guys!

With the correct application of Shadows, I don't think you need to worry as much about his Cleansing Flame as you do against his shooting.

Your list is an evolution of what I'm feeling with my nids. I just don't think Tervigon-heavy play is very effective. They are too easily picked off with shooting, and you end up paying a lot of points for a model that isn't good at killing things, is really slow, that poops out models that aren't good at killing things and are also really slow.

It's all about speed IMO, and the Raveners, garogyles, and mass stealers really work. The only reason I struggled to include things like Raveners and Gargoyles early on was because flying synapse was really expensive and vulnerable (Flyrants & Shrikes). The Parasite was pretty much an unknown until I saw him in your builds and I realized he makes a faster, more assault tyranid army viable.

The only bothersome thing about not including any warrior variants, tyrants, tervigons, or trygon primes is your relatively little synapse (and more importantly) SITW coverage, which is key against GK. Do you find that the Parasite and a Prime are enough to stop Hammerhand, force weapons, and cleansing flame from going off at will? Or do you not focus on it as much and just fight through it?

jy2 wrote:With the correct application of Shadows, I don't think you need to worry as much about his Cleansing Flame as you do against his shooting.

Too true. The pys abilities are actually quite easy to shutdown with proper use of SitW. The thing that will kill you, is a gk that knows how nidz play and maximizes his shooting. The parasite is nice, but at T4, he's as fragile as glass to rifle dreads; I know I wouldn't mind firing through covers saves for a chance to cause instant death on him. Or, do the same thing to the raveners. As long as he takes a more defensive stance and doesn't go running in like a rookie gk who wants to see what his purty blue force weapons do to models with 1 wound, he should be in a solid position to take down any nid force

@jy2

Shooting is always my worry. And with this list I have to engage in CC which hurts since if they're in cover they are nicely hunkered down.

@Griever

I've found that so far but don't hold me to it I've only had one game against GK's and while it went well it was because I capitalized on a mistake when I ate an entire unit that had left dudes out of cover. Had that not happened it probably would have been a much different game. That said the speed is the most critical thing and the Parasite, Gargs, Genestealers, and Rav's provide that.

@Omerakk

The Parasite is in a unit of 20+ Gargs. He's not gonna get picked off by Dreads. Though my Raveners might which is why cover is important until I make my move.

Wonderful battle report, great to see such a different nid list doing so well.

Question - do you feel you have any options other than the parasite for forward synapse? Im just not 100% sold on the PoM's cost effectiveness, but anything else that you can tell me about him would be very interesting!

Thanks!

You don't actually need the PoM for forward Synapse. He's helpful in the sense of extending a fast SotW but otherwise doesn't heavily contribute. Even if you're using Gargoyles as a flying column you should still be able to manage them so that they stay within 12" on the initial assault (though probably not for the follow-up round). Something the PoM does help with though is turning the Garg squad into a credible threat to vehicles.

Overall he's not essential if you play aggressivlely with your other synapse. Just make sure you're using both HQ slots for some synapse as I don't think any of the other options work in this list.

GJ Hulk!

After attending the ATC, where 13 of 14 teams had a wolf list with jaws, my lists are heading towards what yours looks like. I think speed and disruption will be the strongest themes in the next generation of nid lists.

Always trying to be ahead of the curve, that's me

hyv3mynd wrote:GJ Hulk!

After attending the ATC, where 13 of 14 teams had a wolf list with jaws, my lists are heading towards what yours looks like. I think speed and disruption will be the strongest themes in the next generation of nid lists.

Or shooty nids. Go hive guards, biovores and tyrannofex!

jy2 wrote:

hyv3mynd wrote:GJ Hulk!

After attending the ATC, where 13 of 14 teams had a wolf list with jaws, my lists are heading towards what yours looks like. I think speed and disruption will be the strongest themes in the next generation of nid lists.

Or shooty nids. Go hive guards, biovores and tyrannofex!

But those lists still get taken apart easily by wolves.

My personal problem with the shooty Nids is that I don't feel like they put enough wounds on the bad men. It's something I'm picking up more from playing my GK's admittedly but I'm starting to see more and more consistancy out of my armies I design to have mild fire support but very solid close combat. I think it has to do with the abiity to eliminate a roll (armor saves) possibly which you can't do by shooting anymore really. Makes CC a stronger place to shift the game.

Just my personal opinion and what I'm seeing. It's why I've tweaked my GK's lately to have more CC punch at the expense of a little bit of extra shooting.

jy2 wrote:

hyv3mynd wrote:GJ Hulk!

After attending the ATC, where 13 of 14 teams had a wolf list with jaws, my lists are heading towards what yours looks like. I think speed and disruption will be the strongest themes in the next generation of nid lists.

Or shooty nids. Go hive guards, biovores and tyrannofex!

This!

Nice reports, Hulk! They just want a few more pics. Between you and Dash we're starved for the middle ground.

hyv3mynd wrote:

jy2 wrote:

hyv3mynd wrote:GJ Hulk!

After attending the ATC, where 13 of 14 teams had a wolf list with jaws, my lists are heading towards what yours looks like. I think speed and disruption will be the strongest themes in the next generation of nid lists.

Or shooty nids. Go hive guards, biovores and tyrannofex!

But those lists still get taken apart easily by wolves.

Not necessarily. I play both nids and space wolves (Rune Priest-spam) and know both their strengths and weaknesses. If you're playing RP's in rhinos, then you've got time to shoot down their transports before they close in to jaws you. If they're drop-podding, then stick your Shadows units (tervigons, tyrant, etc.) on the outsides to force him to deepstrike further away from you or land in your SitW range.

It's still an uphill battle for nids but one that can be mitigated somewhat by smart deployment and experience against them.

BTW, this is my normal 2K list:

Swarmlord w/2 lash whip tyrant guards
2x3 hive guards
2x hive guards
2x tervigons - catalyst, TS
2x10 termagants
13x genestealers
Tyrannofex - rupture cannon
2x3 biovores

Hulksmash wrote:My personal problem with the shooty Nids is that I don't feel like they put enough wounds on the bad men. It's something I'm picking up more from playing my GK's admittedly but I'm starting to see more and more consistancy out of my armies I design to have mild fire support but very solid close combat. I think it has to do with the abiity to eliminate a roll (armor saves) possibly which you can't do by shooting anymore really. Makes CC a stronger place to shift the game.

Just my personal opinion and what I'm seeing. It's why I've tweaked my GK's lately to have more CC punch at the expense of a little bit of extra shooting.

You kill them with volume of fire and screening. Shoot and screen with termagants against assault armies. Shoot and advance against shooty armies. I have 2 hammer units to protect my shooty core - the Swarmlord and preferred enemy, FNP'd genestealers. Biovores are the anti-infantry after my AT opens up enemy tanks.

@Mann

I swear I'm working on it. I just never seem to be able to remember when I'm playing

@Jy2

I understand how your list works I just don't think it has the consistancy needed to play in a tournament w/6-8 games in it and win all of them. I could be wrong but I've played with and against similar lists to that and they lack the staying power and the flexibility needed for it. But again, that's my opinion and I think one of the best parts of the Nid book is that there isn't a super build and that there is only 1 auto-include (Hive Guard).

@Hulksmash:

You may be right. I don't have the tournament experience that you have and probably haven't faced as many different type of builds with them as you. My list is also a finesse list that requires a certain amount of understanding and reliance on synergy to play well. It was designed more in response to the MSU-mech builds that are prevalent in tourney builds.

It's not the best tyranid build, and it's got its share of weaknesses. Then again, I don't think there's such a thing as a "best" tyranid build.

@Jy2

All Nid lists are finesse lists and any good one is one that relies and is built around synergy. The problem as I see it is that a lot of the MSU mech builds aren't the ones that make top tables. And the ones that do have the firepower to generally outshoot & outcombat you.

However I will agree there is no best Tyranid build. But then I don't think there is a best build for any codex that came out in 5th

That's one of the things I like about where GW is heading with the new 'dexes. There's a lot of flexibility and not any single, dominant build. Now we can see more variety in competitive play.

Entirely agreed. That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying but also agonizing in building my new BA army. It's not like SW or IG where it feels easy. With BA I have to wrestle with hard decisions and tradeoffs.

Nice report. Short, sweet and brutal.

Hulk Smash wrote:I brought my Genestealers in on his right (my left) and as I moved them on he loudly ran the math for what I would need to down the Stormraven that had moved flat-out last turn. I decided not to tell him till the assault phase that have two models out of cover was gonna get his Purifier squad killed.

In the current league I have been playing in the past few months, I have had the pleasure of doing this very thing with my Ymargls on several occassions. Nothing quite as enjoyable as positioning your units to pull your opponent's out of terrain with a single model. One of things I like most about 5th edition: you learn how to dance. And for those who can't visualize what Hulk did. It basically looks like this:



Where yellow "Triangles" are your opponent's models with the green pentagon showing the boundaries of the area terrain. Red "Crosses" are the genestealers with a single lead genestealer being 4-6" away from the closest enemy model not in terrain. The remaining genestealers are grouped together roughly 2" behind the leader to ensure that they will not be able to get in B2B with models in area terrain.

That's exactly right Wyoming. And I think it heavily contributed to my win

cool win. grats