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After reading the sentinel article, I agree that while not horrible, sentinels, of either type are not what one would call a particularly strong unit. Here's my attempt to address that problem.

Scout Sentinel Squadron[45pts per model]

WS3 BS3 S5 F10 S10 R10 I3 A2

Composition: 1-3 Sentinels
Type: Open-topped walker

Wargear: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer and Searchlight

Special Rules: Scouts and Move Through Cover

Options:
May replace Heavy Bolter with
Heavy Flamer for Free
Autocannon for 5pts

May replace Heavy Flamer with
Heavy Bolter for free

Entire Squadron may take
Smoke Launcher for 5pts
Camo-netting for 10pts


Armoured Sentinel Squadron[60pts per model]

WS3 BS3 S5 F12 S10 R10 I3 A2

Composition: 1-3 Sentinels
Type: Open-topped walker

Wargear: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour and Searchlight

Options:
May replace Heavy Bolter with
Heavy Flamer for Free
Autocannon for 5pts
Missile Launcher for 10 pts
Lascannon or Plasma Cannon for 15pts

May replace Heavy Flamer with
Heavy Bolter or Hunter-killer missile for free

Entire Squadron may take
Smoke Launcher for 5pts
Camo-netting for 10pts

This addresses what I believe is the biggest problem, the Sentinel not taking advantage of the its walker rules allowing it to fire multiple weapons while moving and then assaulting. They are not armed with one "primary weapon," One of the first set of options, and a "secondary/defensive weapon," one of the second options. This fits the sentinels purpose as a light skirmishing unit as opposed to an assault walker like dreadnoughts.

I like this. Giving the sentinels a secondary weapon, even just a flamer or heavy bolter, will make them a much better unit. At the same time, it will not make them overpowered in any noticeable degree.

-cgmckenzie

Really the thing that I've always thought would make Sentinels more 'bearable' is to remove the Armored Sentinel from the Fast Attack slot and make it an upgrade for a squad with a Chimera--but disallowing them a Heavy Weapon Team.

Having an armored sentinel attachment to an infantry platoon would be nice.

Scout sentinels are fine as they are really, you just need to make the best use of their abilities and they'll often more than make up for their rather low cost. It's the armored sentinel that needs a bit perhaps. A default secondary weapon of a heavy stubber, upgradeable to flamer or meltagun, would work fine.

I think the main downside of Sentinels is that they are a walker with only one weapon.
adding a secondary gun like this would boost their effectiveness quite a lot

Lord Harrab wrote:I think the main downside of Sentinels is that they are a walker with only one weapon.
adding a secondary gun like this would boost their effectiveness quite a lot

The "main downside" of Sentinels is that they're walkers that aren't meant to assault. They're gun platforms, not assault platforms.

Melissia wrote:Having an armored sentinel attachment to an infantry platoon would be nice.

Scout sentinels are fine as they are really, you just need to make the best use of their abilities and they'll often more than make up for their rather low cost. It's the armored sentinel that needs a bit perhaps. A default secondary weapon of a heavy stubber, upgradeable to flamer or meltagun, would work fine.

Not platoons. I'm referring to an Armored Sentinel being an option for a Chimera mounted squad instead of a Heavy Weapons Team.

Like, say you take a Guard Squad(normal Guard, not Veterans) in a Chimera APC. You can take an Armored Sentinel as a 'upgrade' to the Squad in that case, which cannot be transported and effectively operates as its own unit but does not yield KPs as its own vehicle.

I've been thinking for awhile about a Sentinel 'Hurricane' platform with twin-linked heavy stubbers or a grenade launcher underneath of the chin in addition to its main armament.

Kanluwen wrote:

Lord Harrab wrote:I think the main downside of Sentinels is that they are a walker with only one weapon.
adding a secondary gun like this would boost their effectiveness quite a lot

The "main downside" of Sentinels is that they're walkers that aren't meant to assault. They're gun platforms, not assault platforms.

Thats what I'm saying, Walkers have the ability to fire multiple weapons while staying mobile, yet the Sentinel wastes that by only having one. (plus a possible one shot missile.)

Lord Harrab wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lord Harrab wrote:I think the main downside of Sentinels is that they are a walker with only one weapon.
adding a secondary gun like this would boost their effectiveness quite a lot

The "main downside" of Sentinels is that they're walkers that aren't meant to assault. They're gun platforms, not assault platforms.

Thats what I'm saying, Walkers have the ability to fire multiple weapons while staying mobile, yet the Sentinel wastes that by only having one. (plus a possible one shot missile.)

And you're missing the entire thing.

Sentinels, when compared to walkers of every other race aren't simply "underarmed".

They're just not designed for assault. Nothing in the fluff about them indicates an "assault" role, they're a gun platform.

They are, essentially, the Guard's version of Tactical Dreadnought Armor.

Where did i say that they were assault units? I'm saying they're rather under-armed for a gun platform.

EDIT: Hell, the Eldar War Walker mounts a pair of weapons.

Lord Harrab wrote:Where did i say that they were assault units? I'm saying they're rather under-armed for a gun platform

I'm not saying you said that they were assault units.

I'm saying that in every case outside of the Rifleman Dread, the walkers in 40k are a bizarre blend of fire support and stompy support.

The Sentinel needs pretty much its own set of rules to be effective, as does the Eldar War Walker really.

Kanluwen wrote:The "main downside" of Sentinels is that they're walkers that aren't meant to assault. They're gun platforms, not assault platforms.

But then, they can still do this quite well. It's just that people are so much in love with the damn flyers that they have no imagination of what else they could use their fast attack slots on.

Well yeah. The Valkyries are flippin' awesome.

I still hate the Vendetta though. So stupid to cram in a "gunship" Valkyrie when they had the Vulture platform.

Unfortunately, it's the Vendetta that's the reason why sentinels aren't taken much. People are so in love with the Vendetta that they refuse to take anything else in their FA slots.

Melissia wrote:Unfortunately, it's the Vendetta that's the reason why sentinels aren't taken much. People are so in love with the Vendetta that they refuse to take anything else in their FA slots.

I prefer Banehounds to Vendettas, much easier to hide and tend to attract less incoming fire... until it zooms up and melts a tactical squad.

They need a secondary weapon. Hell, even a storm bolter would be nice.

They are not a good FA choice, simply because they are not fast in the slightest. The scout sentinel can scout but you still have the problem of it being horrifyingly slow, especially for an FA slot.

Options for actually being able to use the chainsaw that comes with the kit as a dreadnaught ccw would be nice, but that should be in lieu of a second weapon. But anything added to them would be an improvement, even scout for the armored sentinels.

-cgmckenzie

Just because they aren't fast doesn't mean anything. They're a good choice to provide mobile heavy weapons support. That's what they do.

One can argue they don't do this well enough, and I owuldn't necessarily disagree... but they don't necessarily need to truly be FAST. Just mobile.

I posted that while thinking about other armies' FA choices: bikes, land speeders, demons of some sort. Compared to that, these are just the slow AT-ST from return of the jedi. And those got defeated by teddy bears!

-cgmckenzie

No they aren't. They're always able to move 6" and fire their heavy weapons, and they're cheap. No damn furries are gonna get through AV10 front armor, nevermind AV12.

Just wondering what the dakka community thinks, would it be too much for Armoured Sentinel to mount two "primary weapons?"

Melissia wrote:No they aren't. They're always able to move 6" and fire their heavy weapons, and they're cheap. No damn furries are gonna get through AV10 front armor, nevermind AV12.

That's the kind of thinking that lost the battle for the empire. 'Stupid bear things, I bet they can't get through this armor.' What about knocking them over with logs tied to ropes!?

In a footslogging army, sentinels are a little nice, mainly cause they give the enemy something else to worry about than my 50 man blob bearing down on them. But, they could still go for a boost in some fashion.

-cgmckenzie

Scout sentinals are great at outflanking, and that's really their role. Come in on the side and hit them with 3 heavy flamers or 3 autocannons for a mere 120 points, and since they're vehicles it's not like they are THAT easy to take out.

The armored I agree could use a little work. Maybe let them be taken instead of heavy weapons teams, no other changes.

Or to supplement them instead of replacing them. Simply another choice, each platoon can have one squadron of armored sentinels.

I just remembered this. Having Sentinel attached at the platoon level is not unprecedented, in IA8 Elysian Army List, a squad Drop Sentinels could be purchased instead of Conscripts.

Drop Sentinels also can only take Heavy Bolters and Multi-Meltas, giving them a very specific role.

I was just pointing out that Sentinels can be attached at the platoon level. In the case of the Elysians, they're used for anti-infantry and anti-armour roles in support of drop troops.

I like that idea! Take the armored sentinels in the platoon would give them some more defined role but not take up a force org slot. Would it be something like '0-3 squads of armored sentinels. Each squad can have 1-3 sentinels with the following...'?

-cgmckenzie

No, it's 1 squadron per platoon. Otherwise you'll get weird things liek having 63 sentinels in a single list.

Also, only suggesting this for the armored sentinel. The scout sentinels need to be separate as they're scouts, similar to how scout veterans (with the camo cloaks and defensive nades) are separate from normal platoons.

I completely forgot about the fact being attached to a platoon would make them not take up a force org slot. Now they won't compete with Valkyries/Vendettas in the FA section.

Maybe one single sentinel per squad, but not a SQUADRON of them. That's... wow.

Uhm.

117 sentinels in one list...

Even one sentinel per squad would give you 45 sentinels. All of them independent and able to target and fire independently after moving 6".

Sorry I meant a single squad of sentinels per platoon.