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why was it originally created? just to unofficially expand the GW library of miniatures?
how often are FW minis turned into official GW minis?

FW minis are official GW minis.

Vulpes89 wrote:why was it originally created? just to unofficially expand the GW library of miniatures?
how often are FW minis turned into official GW minis?

Forge World, as Nerivant said, is "official" GW models. Forge World is a subbranch of Games Workshop itself that do more eclectic/weird stuff. They have a stiffy for the Imperial Guard and all forms of armored vehicles, being big WWII tank nutters by and large.

Recently they've begun making more and more infantry.

Ok, i see. i thought they wernt since theyre not packaged like normal GW models

Kanluwen wrote:

Vulpes89 wrote:why was it originally created? just to unofficially expand the GW library of miniatures?
how often are FW minis turned into official GW minis?

Forge World, as Nerivant said, is "official" GW models. Forge World is a subbranch of Games Workshop itself that do more eclectic/weird stuff. They have a stiffy for the Imperial Guard and all forms of armored vehicles, being big WWII tank nutters by and large.

Recently they've begun making more and more infantry.

Kan' said 'Stiffy', snigger.

Like Kan stated, it allowed members of GWs family to work on what they wanted whilst keeping them under the aegis of GW. It made sense to keep the more esoteric items FW and resin only without having to incur the production costs for plastic for what ammounts to bespoke purchasing.

Historically, GW produced almost no vehicle kits. Indpendent manufacturers like Armorcast and Forge World USA (not related to the current Forge World) aquired the licence to do these, mostly consisting of enlarged copies of epic GW models. They were quite successful at that, so when the time came to renew the licence, GW declined and formed their own department for small run resin vehicles and named it after one of the licensees. Of course at that time, GW also produced plastic vehicles in their main range.

Forge World is an independent subdivision of Games Workshop. Their models usually have no rules in official GW Codices (or army books), but in FW publications. So using them in games is subject to opponent's permit, as they can be quite overpowered (less playtesting at FW). But then again, an opponent can also refuse to play a Codex army when he feels like it.

To offer miniatures to Australia and Canada more cheaply than GW stores do.

frozenwastes wrote:To offer miniatures to Australia and Canada more cheaply than GW stores do.

Kroothawk wrote:
Their models usually have no rules in official GW Codices (or army books), but in FW publications. So using them in games is subject to opponent's permit, as they can be quite overpowered (less playtesting at FW).

No, it's not. More often than not FW stuff is overpriced. 200pt Hydra anyone? Compared to the 75pt version in the IG dex, don't tell me an AA ability is worth 125pts.

I can count on one hand the FW units I would consider overpowered (Chemical Mortars, Lucius pattern Drop Pods, Lucius Pattern Dreadnought pods.)

The purpose of Forge World? To see how much people will pay for a lower quality product. Then tell us the prices are to out of proportion as an excuse to raise costs for their basic plastics. It's like Finecost: Classic edition

TrollPie wrote:The purpose of Forge World? To see how much people will pay for a lower quality product. Then tell us the prices are to out of proportion as an excuse to raise costs for their basic plastics. It's like Finecost: Classic edition

Lower class?! Good one.

Forge World is of a lower class.

They are indeed. While the work that goes into production of the master model is far superior to the Citadel line, what the customer receives is usually an inferior quality product with heavy miscasts, mold lines, flashing, etc.

Isn't it just to make the Aocalypse stuff that Gw don't make like Thunderhawk Gunships and Titans

Forge World was created in 1998, the Brainchild of John Stallard and headed by Paul Robins, the man responsible for the original Thunderhawk Gunship. It was announced to the public in the same edition of White Dwarf as the 3rd Edition of Warhammer 40,000. Forge World was originally created to design Warhammer Terrain (hence the name) and limited edition, large scale collectors edition models. Since then Forge World has expanded to create variant vehicles, large scale titans, accessory sets for various armies and even their own small forces, notably the Elysian Drop Troops Imperial Guard released in 2005. Forge World has become one of the most loved assets of Games Workshop among veteran gamers and has recently been drawn closer to the core company to better allow for cross-pollination of ideas.

They were not originally allowed in tournies and frowned upon in bunkers...

GW finally took FW under their wing, and now they are one & the same....

Now that GW is doing FC, will FW still exist in the future? That is the question....

Also, FW rules in games once needed opponents permission, now FW is semi-allowed in stores & tournies (to a point). GWs stance is FW lists are legal. Players will always debate this.

(over a dozen FW kits are now less $ then GW FC!!!!!!)

Kroothawk wrote:Their models usually have no rules in official GW Codices (or army books), but in FW publications. So using them in games is subject to opponent's permit, as they can be quite overpowered (less playtesting at FW). But then again, an opponent can also refuse to play a Codex army when he feels like it.

Actually, since either IA3 or 4, FW items haven't been opponent's permission, though it is considered in good taste to warn your opponent if you're fetching flyers. It was specifically mentioned in the intro to one of those two books that you didn't have to ask.

Unfortunately, tournament organisers seem to be a bit slow to catch on to this fact.....

chaos0xomega wrote:They are indeed. While the work that goes into production of the master model is far superior to the Citadel line, what the customer receives is usually an inferior quality product with heavy miscasts, mold lines, flashing, etc.

I strongly disagree with that statement. I have only once had a bad miscast, which was replaced for free.

Dysartes wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Their models usually have no rules in official GW Codices (or army books), but in FW publications. So using them in games is subject to opponent's permit, as they can be quite overpowered (less playtesting at FW). But then again, an opponent can also refuse to play a Codex army when he feels like it.

Actually, since either IA3 or 4, FW items haven't been opponent's permission, though it is considered in good taste to warn your opponent if you're fetching flyers. It was specifically mentioned in the intro to one of those two books that you didn't have to ask.

Unfortunately, tournament organisers seem to be a bit slow to catch on to this fact.....

Like I said.....Players will always debate this.


I play 100% Krieg army & here crys from opponent all the time.............

Grimtuff wrote: I can count on one hand the FW units I would consider overpowered (Chemical Mortars, Lucius pattern Drop Pods, Lucius Pattern Dreadnought pods.)

Land Raider Achilles?

Hello,
You know, honestly if you paid your hard earned money for it and their are comparable rules I say yes, why, because it is a GW model, the rules are built the same, same point costing method. That said there are some "intersting" combinations, but if your not over 2k points and not using apoc models I could care less. I should note the LR Achilies is not well recieved by opponentss, however fun it may be.

Regards,
Carl

The handful of FW things that are overpowered are generally VERY overpowered.

The general rule of thumb for tournaments around me for FW is that you can use the models to represent codex units, but the rules can only be used when explicitly allowed.

GW accepts FW models & rules. That simple.

krazynadechukr wrote:GW accepts FW models & rules. That simple.

If you play at a GW shop, it might be.

If not, it's at least a bit more complicated.

krazynadechukr wrote:GW accepts FW models & rules. That simple.

And there are so many GW run GT's now.) It's not simple in any way.

The problem is not the FW models and lists that are underpowered or balance, it's the ones that are substantially overpowered. Guess which ones are going to be bought and show up in tournaments the most?

I've been allowing FW lists in a lot of our tournaments, with the assumption that the player is using the list to use his corresponding FW models. You can use a list for Vrak's Renegades or DKoK if you own Vraks or DKok models. You can't use Cadians to proxy for DkoK.


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Dysartes wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Their models usually have no rules in official GW Codices (or army books), but in FW publications. So using them in games is subject to opponent's permit, as they can be quite overpowered (less playtesting at FW). But then again, an opponent can also refuse to play a Codex army when he feels like it.

Actually, since either IA3 or 4, FW items haven't been opponent's permission, though it is considered in good taste to warn your opponent if you're fetching flyers. It was specifically mentioned in the intro to one of those two books that you didn't have to ask.

Unfortunately, tournament organisers seem to be a bit slow to catch on to this fact.....

Not slow. The stance by some players that FW should always be allowed is widely known, and argued on a regular basis. Most TO's just disagree with you on it.

I use DKOK models in my DKOK army. I pay extra points for each mini. I get a little extra stuff as far as stats and rules (+1WS & regroups even if under 1/2 strength, etc...)....

Have never had a problem playing at my local BB or playing in any of there sponsored tournies...

Only time I hear crys of unfair are on Dakka or a newbie shows up at the BB....

I do know that when the FW rules say "experimental" they are NOT allowed in any tournies....


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Like I said.....Players will always debate this.

The issue is there are a few Forgeworld units that are over the top unfair and should not be allowed in competitive play. (or friendly play as how fun is deathwind dropppodding a noob or unsuspecting opponent?) The only way to keep them out is to keep all FW out.

Events explicitly warn participates FW allowed, which makes the 'default' for almost all events to be 'FW rules not allowed.' Most allow the models to PROXY for other core codex units so you can use the models.

Nice thing about DKoK is they can play using regular I guard rules without much problem.

I agree with the opinion that Foreworld rules and models are official GW products and thus can be used in GW games (although not tournaments) without prior notice. Forgeworld rules are only experimental when they release experimental rules PDFs on their website web. Theoretically, the rules published in IA should be the real deal.

I suspect issues with the quality of Forgeworld rules is a result of the declining quality in rules design within GW as a whole rather than the purpose of FW in its entirety within the hobby.

Forgeworld caters to a niche market of GW's niche market so
that it can price, promote and produce independently of
the "standard" 40k and Fantasy lines.

FW models and rules are no more legal ( in a GW codice game ) than custom home made rules. They both fall under ( anything is fine aslong as the other players agrees )
Because as far as i know, thats why they are stated as experimental rules , instead of ( xxxxx units can be fully ran in the xxxx Codex )
And thats why some TO dont allow FW units with FW rules to be used. Because their rules were originally designed to play against other FW units.
Did i get that right?

LunaHound wrote:FW models and rules are no more legal (in a GW codice game) than custom home made rules.

Wrong. There's no such thing as a "GW codex game". That's simply a pick-up game.

In many of those cases, you'll find that there's no actual issue with playing Forge World rules--provided you have the rules on hand and have no qualms with letting your opponent read through the rules if he asks. It also doesn't hurt to say "Well, I usually field X, but I have the Y list from Forge World and the book in my car. Want to change things up a bit and use that?" to introduce the idea.


Putting it bluntly: if you're doing a pick-up game with someone and it wasn't arranged ahead of time--don't expect to be able to use FW rules.
There's kind of a 'gentleman's agreement' that if you're going to use FW lists or units, that it's best to warn your opponent ahead of time.

They both fall under ( anything is fine aslong as the other players agrees )
Because as far as i know, thats why they are stated as experimental rules , instead of ( xxxxx units can be fully ran in the xxxx Codex )

Only certain units' rules are actually listed as 'experimental'. Those rules are always available as a free, printable .PDF from Forge World's website.

The standard units that FW releases now have a notation in there that "This is a <Slot Here> choice for a <Army Here> force."

And thats why some TO dont allow FW units with FW rules to be used. Because their rules were originally designed to play against other FW units.
Did i get that right?

Not even remotely, Luna.
Forge World units with Forge World rules aren't "originally designed to play against other FW units". They're balanced with the "normal GW codices" in mind--the problem is that some things, just like in the normal codices, are balanced improperly.

The reason why tournament organisers don't allow FW units and FW rules is simply because there's a stigma amongst the community at large that FW units are "imbalanced".

There's, of course, some that are. But you don't see them disallowing parts of the Space Wolf Codex for that same reason. FW units require an outlay of money to get the knowledge of which is OP and which are not. It's easier to put a blanket ban in place than spend the time and money to do the research.