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hey guys i was playing this weekend with my friend that plays vampire counts.
i lost the game but i rolled bad while my friend had awsome rolls but we were quite even.
i was using this list

warriors of chaos

Lord:
Sorcerer Lord (L4, MoT, Disc o T, third eye of tzeentch, Infernal Puppet, Amulet of Preservation, Stream of Coruption(gift of chaos) ) = 430

Heroes:
Exalted Hero (BSB, MoT, Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonhelm, armor of fortune) = 205


core

40x marauders mark of khorne greatweapon fullcommand light armor 290

20x warriors of chaos mark of tzeentch fullcommand raptutous standard shield 390

20x warriors of chaos mark of khorne fullcommand haliberd banner of eternal flame 390


special

5x chaos knigths fullcommand mark of tzeentch 270

5x chaos knigths fullcommand mark of tzeentch 270

rare

hellfire cannon 205

chaos warshrine mark of tzeentch 150


total 2590

im in some need for feedback, like what do i need to change what is good and so on?
because im looking for a solid fun army.
and do i need go go too 3k in points to afford a chaos lord and lvl 4 wizard or should i use lvl 2 wizards instead?

The list it self looks good, but I have a few questions. What sort of armies do you mostly play? Because I dont any fast cav or units for warmachine hunting except the Knigths.
And yes, do go to 3k but not for the chaos lord, get more marauders, they are worth their weigth in gold.

Except for that the army looks good.

i used to play beastmen so they are kinda similar to woc. but when i played last time i had a unit of 40 marauders with gw and mok and they got butcherd by a horde of 40 ghouls.

Knights aren't even fast cav. My recomendations are depending on what models you have. You should drop the third eye of tzeentch. Most tzeentch lore spells are amazing as is no use wasting your time stealing other lores. May want to look at giving that sorc lord bloodcurdling roar. It's actually a hilarious way to drop big creatures. THe marauders are amazing the way you have them. I would add in a second squad truthfully. You say you don't like them because they get butchered? I love them because they do. That 290 point unit you have there takes artillery hell because it's a block of S5 and takes arrows up the wazoo also. It pretty much guarentees your enemy will shoot at it over the warriors / knights anyday of the week.

My other recomendations include
1. Get at least one set of 5 marauder horsemen. Proceed to give them throwing javelins, spears and light armor. Now give them mark of slaneesh and a musician. You now have a artillery hunting, rear charging group of the most hated people in existence. Get behind enemy lines and go destroy those cannons. Whats that? The enemy just got into it with that squad of warriors? Well lets just come in from behind and add +2 to combat resolution. Oh noes 4/5 of them are dead? Pfft who cares I'm slaneesh. Oh snap I'm getting charged? Flee and auto rally next turn because of slaneesh and continue on your way.

2. I really never run full command except for on my tzeentch warrior squad with my BSB in it. Musician and banner is plenty in all groups really.

3. Depending on the main armies you fight I'd recommend trying out a nurgle warriors squad with halberds and a banner of undying rage. This makes those WS 3 buddies hit on 5's and brings those WS 6 people down to your hitting on 4's lvl of play.

4. The knights I would trade out mark of tzeentch for a mark of khorne. Also again maybe not run FC just run musi and stick. I don't know how many combat have been won by my khorne knights deciding they were god incarnate and destroying a squad of empire or TK's.

5. Last on my list is that hell cannon. Maybe it's because I have horrible luck with my rolls, but my hell cannons normally decide they want to eat their crew in the first turn and then become the melee wonder out on the field. I prefer the horsemen mentioned previously to the cannon of how did my artillery beat my knights to the charge? They do offer a lot of fun though

ok why arent you going full command is it to remove the eye of the gods rule?
i was thinking of getting some marauder horsemen mostly because i like the figures.
the hellcannon is in mostly for fun but it for me it charged an enemy unit of ghouls in round 1 but beacuse of is armor save and high toughness it stayed alive and halted his unit.

and about the marauders are you saying that they are ment to be meat shield??

I wold give the lord on disc the amulet of preservation a biting blade and an enchanted shield. 1+ armor 3+ ward.

I run my bsb like this and it works well.
Bsb mot amulet of endurance shield sword of might ( I give him a charmed shield unless I take a support caster.
So he has 3+ armor and a 4+ ward and is str 6.

Drop the champ from the knights they really don't need it he is a waste of points.

If you change the khorne unit to mot give em a rage banner and stick the bsb in there then they gave a ward save they are frenzied and can't loose it and the bsb gets an extra attack and your armies theme is still there.

I would knock the warriors down to 18 men and run them 6 wide for more frontage.

Withe extra points maybe another hellcannon if you can afford it points wise those things rock for watching your rear and flank.

Maybe drop a unit of knights get some fast cav and maybe give the knights that you have left a blasted standard with mot 4+ ward against shooting what's not to like.

Maybe drop the armor off the marauders and beef em up to 50 and run em 10 wide.

Support caster with puppet is really effective.

Yes sorry. marauders to me are my armies meat shield. I run them 6x4 and everyone likes to shoot at them because they are a big unit. They are a great meat shield because with GW's they are still a valid enough threat that people want them dead, but still cheap enough that I don't care if everything is focusing them.

Marauders are great I just don't use them too much since there are so bloody many to paint which sucks.

But with gw they are nasty.

does anyone have any good item combination for a chaos lord or sorcerer lord?

Chaos Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, 390 pts LVL 4 Gen
Biting Blade
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Preservation
spell familiar
Disc

Exalted Hero of Tzeentch BSB, 200 pts MOT
Sword of Might
Talisman of Endurance
shield

Thats what I run maybe add a support caster with puppet.
Thats my support casters set up. (for a 3k list but that should fit points wise).

Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch, 210 pts MOt,LVL2
talisman of protection
Infernal Puppet
Disc

storhudas wrote:
Lord:
Sorcerer Lord (L4, MoT, Disc o T, third eye of tzeentch, Infernal Puppet, Amulet of Preservation, Stream of Coruption(gift of chaos) ) = 430

Heroes:
Exalted Hero (BSB, MoT, Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonhelm, armor of fortune) = 205

core

40x marauders mark of khorne greatweapon fullcommand light armor 290

20x warriors of chaos mark of tzeentch fullcommand raptutous standard shield 390

20x warriors of chaos mark of khorne fullcommand haliberd banner of eternal flame 390

special

5x chaos knigths fullcommand mark of tzeentch 270

5x chaos knigths fullcommand mark of tzeentch 270

rare

hellfire cannon 205

chaos warshrine mark of tzeentch 150

total 2590

The list is solid as is, you've covered most all of your bases for a standard WoC list. My recommendations are very few:
1) BSB has two pieces of magic armor, just swap the armor of fortune to talisman of endurance and you're good to go (and he also has a better armor save now )
2) Drop all of your champions, except the unit where your BSB will be (which I'm guessing is the tizz warriors). You could leave the halberd champ if you like too, as that man can dice heroes in a lot of cases, earning some 'underdog' (WoC?? ) bonus VP
3) Ditch the light armor on the lumberjack marauders, it's not doing much of anything except taking up points

That gets you 88 points (or 100 if you drop the khorne warrior champ too), which either gets you to 2500 points (a much more common point value), or gets you the points to pick up those horsemen you fancied

EDIT
Below is your list with the stuff above chainsawed out of it, if that's easier to read ...

- Salvage

ok i have remade my list take a look

warriors of chaos
lord
Chaos Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, 390 pts LVL 4 Gen
Biting Blade
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Preservation
spell familiar
Disc

heroes
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch BSB, 200 pts MOT
Sword of Might
Talisman of Endurance
shield

Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch, 210 pts MOt,LVL2
talisman of protection
Infernal Puppet
Disc

core 1009

40x marauders mark of khorne greatweapon standard music 242

20x warriors of chaos mark of tzeentch fullcommand raptutous standard shield 390

20x warriors of chaos mark of nurgle fullcommand haliberd banner of undying rage 415

5 marauder horsemen standard music javelin spear light armor mos 108


special

5x chaos knigths standard music mark of khorne banner of eternal flame 275



rare

hellfire cannon 205

chaos warshrine mark of tzeentch 150



total 2585


does it look ok ?

Well to be honest i like the lords and heroes a lot.

You might want to drop 2 warriors off each block and maybe change the mon to mot since mot gives you a ward save where as nurgle only -1 ws (which only applies for them hitting you.

So maybe drop 2 warriors off each block the warshrine and get another cannon that is always fun.

but isnt the warshrine quite usefull?

storhudas wrote:5x chaos knigths standard music mark of khorne banner of eternal flame 275

That banner only lights their horses on fire, as magical weapons cannot be made flaming if they aren't already (see very last bit of the Flaming special rule).

Other random thoughts:
+ Spell familiar on your level 4 is not that useful, as the lore only has 4 good spells (IMO), meaning you're paying 15 points to get Call to Glory (!!) or Transmog; and with a level 2, who can only duplicate flickering fire, you're just about guaranteed to have every spell in the lore across both wizards if you want it (and you don't really want it!)
+ A halberd on your BSB will get him S6 for a fraction of the points of sword + shield ... but maybe you have him modeled with sword + shield?
+ Why is the puppet caster on a disc? Is his maneuverability important enough to you to sacrifice survivability? 3/5+ save is not so great when he's the puppet guy!

That all frees up some points, for more marauders, or more horsemen, or a better banner on the knights, or some gifts (roar / stream is great for disc riders, and roar would give your level 2 a reason to be riding that disc).

- Salvage

Boss thanks so much for that I was thinking something totally different on the bsb I don't know why I didn't think of the halberd (mine is modeled with sword and shield but can totally be altered).

How would you deal with the puppet guy stick him in a unit?

Still not the best at magic but which sorcerers spells should you roll for first?

Puppet dude could be on that disc, I'd just like to see some reason for him to be out there - roar, for instance - and flickering fire isn't really it, with the changes to line of sight in 8th. But yes I'd rather he go in with the rapturous warriors, where along with his talisman of protection he's not that badly off. 4/5+ save and riding a corner should keep him around, and he's essentially a chaos warrior stat-wise anyway, so the unit isn't hampered.

The level 4 should definitely roll first. With 4 dice you have a great chance of getting that one spell you want (generally Gateway I'm guessing), and a bunch besides. In the perfect case (which is pretty likely with drops and choosing for doubles), he gets flicker, pandy, treason, gate. When the level 2 goes, after rerolling doubles and/or choosing flicker, he's going to end up with flicker and transmog. While there is some sense in staggering your strongest spells (pandy, gate, treason if applicable) between the two casters, and transmog is somewhat useful on a disc rider who can deliver it onto artillery outside of general or BSB LD bubbles, I have a feeling this is the basic magic set up for most double Tizz level 4 + 2 situations. (Dice can of course change things, like rolling doubles for both transmog and call on the level 4.)

- Salvage

Ok I see makes sense I have 2 discs and more than enough sorcerers on foot to try out both.

Thanks so much for the advice

listen bro

1. Ur buddy wasnt rolling much better than u

2. skip the hell cannon, skip one knight unit. Instead add much more needed fighty hero support.

3. tie those ghouls up in a big multiple combat and out flank them. they will loose big time and suffer HUGE combat res wounds.

4. U win!

Winning cheers you buy me beer chers!

The hellcannon can take out vampires whats not to like?

We are currently not trying to tailor a list to beat vc but an over all army that can hold its own against other armies too and against vc you need a counter for the grave guard that are usually tooled to the max and dont die.

overall Ithink its a much better way to win against vc is to
1 win the close combat sitations
2 disable their magic

If you do that they will lose real fast instead of trying to shoot them down. Shooting may be good if ur opponent has wasted alot of points in expensive Blood Knights or smaller units. But to try to out shoot him before he gets to you you often give him what you want.

Against tooled up grave guard there is basically very little you can do against them.

Nah, do what you always do best against hard hammer units, tie them up in the front with cheap units that always will be steadfast =win

hey guys i recently trying out this list

ok i have remade my list take a look

warriors of chaos
lord
Chaos Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, 390 pts LVL 4 Gen
Biting Blade
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Preservation
spell familiar
Disc

heroes
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch BSB, 200 pts MOT
Sword of Might
Talisman of Endurance
shield

Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch, 210 pts MOt,LVL2
talisman of protection
Infernal Puppet
Disc

core 1009

40x marauders mark of khorne greatweapon standard music 242

20x warriors of chaos mark of tzeentch fullcommand raptutous standard shield 390

20x warriors of chaos mark of nurgle fullcommand haliberd banner of undying rage 415

5 marauder horsemen standard music javelin spear light armor mos 108


special

5x chaos knigths standard music mark of khorne banner of eternal flame 275



rare

hellfire cannon 205

chaos warshrine mark of tzeentch 150



total 2585


and i've been getting som good results but i would like to ask you guys about the lord.
i was thinking changing the sorcerer lord to a chaos lord because woc have alot of fun offensive magic weapons.
but my question is can i fit both a lvl 4 magican and a chaos lord in a 2600 game or do i need to get over 3000 points.?
or if i change the sorcerer lord for a chaos lord how should i change my lvl 2 mage?
and lastly any good recommendation for a killy tough lord?

It isbetter to fit a combat lord to fit at 3k I play 2999 but ya it is easier to do there.

Suggestions mon sucks sorry to say mot with shields is good or mok with halberds is good.

Suggestions for a bsb

hero 189
bsb
mot
talisman of endurance
halberd
charmed shield
and iron curse icon

or

hero 195
bsb
mot
talisman of endurance
enchanted shield
iron curse icon

either of these is really effective.

For a combat lord I am currently trying
lord
mok
talisman of endurance
helm of many eyes
rending sword
jugger

and

Sorcerer lord
mot
armor of destiny
stream of corruption
disc

this is what I'm using for 2999 points because it would be fun.

With an 18 man unt of mok halberds with bsb in there
18 man mot shields rap standard fc 18 man mot shields warbanner I think fc. Dont remember what banner the mok guys have.
5 knights banner mus mot blasted standard 5 knights mot mus standard +1 to move banner and a hellcannon. Lvl2 mot puppet.

But ya higher points give you a better chance for more lords.