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Hi all

I'm relatively new to the game. I have a decent grasp of the rules but my tactical abilities are still lacking.

I have a game lined up against a pal who is running a mechanized Deldar list. So lots of raiders, venoms, reavers and ravagers. He'll be using Wyches as his troops and Haemonculus as his HQ choice.

The game is at 2000 and I'm pretty worried that the units at my disposal aren't well equipped to take on mech deldar. I'm looking for advice on what best to take from the following list (models are listed with what they are equipped with):

HQ

Karamazov

Castellan Crowe

Elites

Vindicare

Inquisitorial retinue
10 warrior acolytes
Hot shot lasguns
Chimera
Heavy bolter
Heavy flamer
Dozer blade

5 paladins
2 psycannons
Brotherhood banner
Apothecary
3 halberds
1 daemonhammer

Eversor

Troops

10 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
5 Halberds
4 psycannons
Rhino

10 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
5 Halberds
4 psycannons
Rhino

Heavy support

Nemesis dreadknight
Personal teleporter
Heavy incinerator
Heavy psycannon

Nemesis dreadknight
Personal teleporter
Heavy incinerator
Heavy psycannon

Dreadnought
Twin linked lascannon

Land raider


Crowe and the Purifiers pick themselves. Everything else is up for discussion. Any guidance on choices and general tactics would be greatly appreciated. I'll try and get him complete list and add it to the tread.

I like the idea of teleporting the dreadknights in 1st turn and allowing my purifiers to move into the midfield where their psycannons will do most damage. One dreadknight would get taken down pretty easily but 2 could cause plenty of destruction and diversion.

I'd like to make the paladins a fairly visible target and let them absorb lots of attention. My main fear here is that my opponent has lots of str8 weaponry, so I figured I could run Karamazov with them and let him soak up the str8 hits as he is T5 and will not fall victim to instant death. Karamazov could also be effective with the orbital bombardments should my opponent try and deal with my dreadknights in CC.

The vindicare gives me some long range armour popping options as does the twin linked lascannon dread (I really need to do some conversion work and make him a psyrifleman). The land raider may have to come in as it provides long range and can split it's fire which will come in very handy.

I'm not sure how useful the warrior acolytes will be but an additional tank (chimera) would be useful to have on the board.

I'm pretty concerned by my lack of men. I might have to use the paladins as normal termies and have an additional troop choice.

Few things to think about


1) Karamazov is an interesting character, but not my favorite. I am not sure how he does against DE. His no scatter Orbital barrage can be useful, but not against a fast opponent who will play keep away. it will be hard for you to get something near the DE. He can not run with the Paladins in the land raider. he can not go in transports. I would drop him.


2) You need some options for multi-shot S6-8 weapons. DE vehicles have low AV but have either a 5++ or 4+ cover saves. Since they are fast, they can stay away from the 24" range of most of your guns. here is a short list of things that will wreck the DE transport.

a) Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psybolt ammo (36" range, 3 TL S6 shots)
b) Chimera ML/HF (36" range, 3 S6 shots at BS3)
c) Dreadnought with 2x TL Autocannons and psbolt ammo (48" range, 4 TL S8 shots)

Once DE loose their skimmers they loose most of their speed. Then you can mop up with your 24" guns.


3) Dreadknight are not as good against DE due to the fact that T6 means nothing to them. They will take a lot of 4+ poison shots.


4) 10 man purifier squads can work, but so can 5 man squads. 5 dudes, 2x Cannons, 3x Halberds. If you can set up multiple assaults, cleansing flame will hurt the DE before they can hit back


5) There is an entire article on henchmen in my signature if you need ideas. Storm Bolters or Bolters are better than the Hot Shot Las. Cheaper, better strength, more shots at 24" (for the storm bolter)


6) I would not take the Eversor. He is not that great in the new book. The Vindcare can be helpful. (shield breaker against a Shadow Field)


Double check the rules for the Force Organization Chart and check the army list section. There are a lot of Crowe lists there at the moment if you need ideas.

Lastly, this might do better in the army list sub-forum as it is a specific list. I alerted the mods.
Good Luck


edit: fixed some things.

Just a quick correction: TL-Autocannon dreadnoughts (riflemen) with psybolts are S8, not S6, so they are an extremely efficient transport busting option against anything AV12 and lower. Against AV13/14, you want melta (if you can get it) and/or S10 (via hammers+hammerhand, etc) and/or monstrous creatures.

Also, if Karamazov walks with the Paladins then you can't fire his OSR, which is one of his strengths. You can still use the MM (which is a godsend for the GK) but that's it.

Another quick correction, it was a list of what he had available, not an army list AFAIK.
And yeah Mortis Dreads are an excellent idea for busting DE Transports, multiple high S shots are the way forward.

Thanks for the feedback guys. All appreciated.

Yes as mentioned, the list wasn't an actual army list, just a list of what I have available. Most of it are remnants of my old Daemonhunters list (hence why I have rubbish units like the Eversor assassin which I'm unlikey to ever use).

A big thanks on the Dreadknight tip. I've never faced Deldar before and am largely ignorant to their codex. It would have been horrible to see 500 points disappear quickly due to blind ignorance on my part.

Karamazov and the retinue are gone. I have also included a load of Razorbacks. I was due to purchase a couple of rhinos but the additional firepower of the razorbacks seem worth splashing out a bit and getting 4. I'll also make the necessary conversions to the dread to make it a "psy-rifle".

So based on your advice, here is my first list:

HQ

Castellan Crowe

Elites

Vindicare

5 paladins
2 psycannons
Brotherhood banner
Apothecary
3 halberds
1 daemonhammer

Troops

6 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
3 Halberds
2 psycannons
Razorback (heavy bolters + psyammo)

6 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
3 Halberds
2 psycannons
Razorback (heavy bolters + psyammo)

6 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
3 Halberds
2 psycannons
Razorback (heavy bolters + psyammo)

6 Purifiers
1 daemonhammer
3 Halberds
2 psycannons
Razorback (heavy bolters + psyammo)

Heavy support

Land raider

Dreadnought (2 twin linked autocannons)

I'm at work (on lunch) so I don't have access to the codex. I'm pretty sure this comes in at about 2000 which is what I'm aiming for.

I'm pretty pleased with it but my main concerns are:

1. HQ choice is underpowered. Other than delivering the purifers as troops my single HQ choice, Crowe, is likely to do nothing whatsoever but hide.

2. Troop choices only containing 6 men seems a little flimsy.

3. The paladins are immense but suck up a huge amount of points. I'm worried they'll simply be ignored and then be a waste.

Possible solution:

I could run the paladins as terminators, which expands my troop choices and add in a GM or Librarian (with a bit og jiggling). I'm 50/50 on which one to pick. Sanctuary would be a great power to have against deldar. But then giving my chaps counter attack from the grand strategy would really optimise my halberd wielding GK's. Just three in a squad would get their base 2 attacks plus 1 for charging hitting first with I6. Cleansing flame followed by 9 attacks before a squad of Wyches have laid a finger on me....nice.

Thoughts? Any good?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

svendrex wrote:Few things to think about

5) There is an entire article on henchmen in my signature if you need ideas. Storm Bolters or Bolters are better than the Hot Shot Las. Cheaper, better strength, more shots at 24" (for the storm bolter)

That was a decent read. When I get around to it I'll replace my current chaps (Inquisitorial sotrmtroopers with the lasguns) with 3 meltagun acololytes and 2 Jokaero in the chimera.

Cheers

I'd drop the Landraider due to the fact that dark matter reduces the AV to 12.
Instead, I'd take 2 more Psyfleman Dreads.

couple of notes on the paladins.


1) With 2 wounds and a 2+ armor save, the apothecary is not really needed (especially for 75 pts). Paladins are already very durable against small arms fire. Paladins hate S8 and AP2 fire, both of which FNP does nothing against.

2) The banner may or may not be worth it. You loose some attacks on that model, but the other models gain attacks. You would have to think about it.

3) The Land Raider is Not going to last long against DE. They have large numbers of lance weapons (reduce your AV 14 to AV 12)



On crowe as a combat character

1) He is only 150 pts. That is not so bad really. It is less than most of the Non-special HQ's (once you buy stuff for them)

2) He can parry attacks (re-rolled 2+ armor and 4++ save is nice) while casting cleansing flame every round of combat. Against large squads he is quite nice. Or he can be a tarpit as well.

3) He can take out characters/MC's as well. Rends on a 4+ is nice against T6 or better, not to bad with Rapier Strike. Then if he dies he can use Heroic Sacrifice as well.

4) He can re-roll to hit on the turn he charges as well. Very good for Heroic Sacrifice as well.

For being a Bargain basement character that does nice things to the FOC he is not too bad really.



edit: glad you liked the henchman article. it has had some negative feedback

Vargas79 wrote:I could run the paladins as terminators, which expands my troop choices and add in a GM or Librarian (with a bit of jiggling). I'm 50/50 on which one to pick. Sanctuary would be a great power to have against deldar. But then giving my chaps counter attack from the grand strategy would really optimise my halberd wielding GK's.

I like this idea.Have a go in 2 or 3 games to see how you feel about it.Personally i am not keen on Pallies,over expensive,even in a squad of 5,i am yet to be convinced.

Pedro Kantor wrote:

Vargas79 wrote:I could run the paladins as terminators, which expands my troop choices and add in a GM or Librarian (with a bit of jiggling). I'm 50/50 on which one to pick. Sanctuary would be a great power to have against deldar. But then giving my chaps counter attack from the grand strategy would really optimise my halberd wielding GK's.

I like this idea.Have a go in 2 or 3 games to see how you feel about it.Personally i am not keen on Pallies,over expensive,even in a squad of 5,i am yet to be convinced.

Paladins cost not much more than Termies but are much more survivable if diversified thanks to wound allocation.
So they are worth it, especially in larger pt games when you field a GM.
In smaller pt games, like 1500 pts, I wouldn't bother and take an Inquisitor (Xenos type) and stick him to regular Termies. Cheap and effective.

wuestenfux wrote:

Pedro Kantor wrote:

Vargas79 wrote:I could run the paladins as terminators, which expands my troop choices and add in a GM or Librarian (with a bit of jiggling). I'm 50/50 on which one to pick. Sanctuary would be a great power to have against deldar. But then giving my chaps counter attack from the grand strategy would really optimise my halberd wielding GK's.

I like this idea.Have a go in 2 or 3 games to see how you feel about it.Personally i am not keen on Pallies,over expensive,even in a squad of 5,i am yet to be convinced.

Paladins cost not much more than Termies but are much more survivable if diversified thanks to wound allocation.
So they are worth it, especially in larger pt games when you field a GM.
In smaller pt games, like 1500 pts, I wouldn't bother and take an Inquisitor (Xenos type) and stick him to regular Termies. Cheap and effective.

I agree with this. The additional wound and WS and access to a further psycannon for the Paladins makes the additional points per model worth it. They will be able to suck up plenty of damage before they go down. I will be dropping FNP and the banner though. Frees up a nice chunk of points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

svendrex wrote:couple of notes on the paladins.


1) With 2 wounds and a 2+ armor save, the apothecary is not really needed (especially for 75 pts). Paladins are already very durable against small arms fire. Paladins hate S8 and AP2 fire, both of which FNP does nothing against.

Agreed. Must admit I did not realise that FNP is innefective against AP2 weapons. I had to re-read the rule. Ta.

2) The banner may or may not be worth it. You loose some attacks on that model, but the other models gain attacks. You would have to think about it.

Agreed. Will be removed.

3) The Land Raider is Not going to last long against DE. They have large numbers of lance weapons (reduce your AV 14 to AV 12)

I'm going to reomve this and replace with additional psyrifle dreads when I have the money to do so. I think it will have to stay for now though.

On crowe as a combat character

1) He is only 150 pts. That is not so bad really. It is less than most of the Non-special HQ's (once you buy stuff for them)

2) He can parry attacks (re-rolled 2+ armor and 4++ save is nice) while casting cleansing flame every round of combat. Against large squads he is quite nice. Or he can be a tarpit as well.

3) He can take out characters/MC's as well. Rends on a 4+ is nice against T6 or better, not to bad with Rapier Strike. Then if he dies he can use Heroic Sacrifice as well.

4) He can re-roll to hit on the turn he charges as well. Very good for Heroic Sacrifice as well.

For being a Bargain basement character that does nice things to the FOC he is not too bad really.

Good points. He may also end up being quite useful in colaberation with Karamazov's orbital strike.



edit: glad you liked the henchman article. it has had some negative feedback

For my current standard it was really informative. I appreciated the resource.

Thanks again guys.

Okay so my updated list looks like this:

HQ 150

Crowe

Elites 470

Paladins
2 MC psycannons
4 halberds
1 hammer

Vindicare

Troops 792

5 purifiers
2 psycannons
2 halberds
1 hammer
Razorback + psyammo

5 purifiers
2 psycannons
2 halberds
1 hammer
Razorback + psyammo

5 purifiers
2 psycannons
2 halberds
1 hammer
Razorback + psyammo

5 purifiers
2 psycannons
2 halberds
1 hammer
Razorback + psyammo

Heavy support 270

Dreadnought
2 twin linked autocannons

Dreadnought
2 twin linked autocannons

Total 1682

I think this is probably the best I'm going to get against mech deldar. These are all the models I have, excluding a dreadknight which seems pointless to field against an army full of poisoned weapons, and a land raider which is too many points considering the amount of dark lances my opponent is running.

I have 68 points to play with. The obvious move would be to upgrade a dread to be venerable which leaves me with 6 points. Alternatively I could fork out for a xenos inquistor and run him with a unit of purifiers. Maybe I could drop the vinidcare and get a GM or Librarian. Grand stragegy would be useful to scout the purfiers forward and help get the psycannons in range faster. alternatively shrouding would be good to protect the troops against the phenomenal amount of firepower my mates list brings.

Any thoughts?

About HQ slots you really dont need to worry about them being underpowered or what not. DE have crazy high inititive and some nasty nasty character killing gear. Taking a tooled HQ against DE is really a waste of points. If you sit 200-300 points in a character, thats 300 points not shooting down DE transports and the DE will maneuver enough nasty in to kill whatever HQ you might have.

Im not sure paladins or assassins are a good idea. DE have lots of Str8 Ap2 to overkill both and DE are fairly cheap. If you are turbo penetrating a land raider great, but a Ravager with a cover save?

Tangentally related, if I were to build an anti-DE army, it would be the following:

Coteaz
Librarian with Shrouding
4-5 chimeras with multi-lasers and heavy bolters with a couple jokero in each.
3 Psyfleman Dreads
3 Venerable Psyfleman Dreads

There's a theme there - lots of shots. Adapt what you have to suit, and you're all set!

Dashofpepper wrote:Tangentally related, if I were to build an anti-DE army, it would be the following:

Coteaz
Librarian with Shrouding
4-5 chimeras with multi-lasers and heavy bolters with a couple jokero in each.
3 Psyfleman Dreads
3 Venerable Psyfleman Dreads

There's a theme there - lots of shots. Adapt what you have to suit, and you're all set!

I really like your profile picture. I might make a helmet like that and put it on my next door neighbours cat. He's constantly getting picked on and could do with an increase to his AV rating.