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Sooo, my friend went to BA around a month and half ago, and he fell in love with his DC.

Do you guys know a way to kill these guys. I have a lot of problems because he always takes lemartes with them. And since they have fleet all game long and I only have it once per game, I have trouble getting the charge (if I don't get it, I am dead, evenw hen i cahrge, he gets the 1st attack and pretty much only my PK nob can do damage because a 3+ with FNP is almost impossible to wound.

The only times I've won against his DC is when he forgot his PF and I sent my kans/dread vs them and totally destroyed them. Nobz have a hard time aggainst them because the point cost of 10 nobz kitted is way over a 10 man DC.

So how do you ork players deal with the DC?

PS: hdon,t tell me to go around them please, I've already tried that but they can control almost ahlf of the gaming table when I do that so that is a no go

Death Company Marines don't have Fleet, although DC Dreadnoughts do.

It would help to know what the rest of his list is and what your list is.

For the sake of argument, let's do the math:

20 Shoota Boyz with a PK Nob charge 10 DC Marines with 1 PF and Lemartes. I assume Lemartes has 2 wounds remaining.

DC attacks first: 3 PW attacks, 27 regular attacks = 1 PW wound, 7 regular wounds = 7 dead Boyz

13 Shoota Boyz: 39 regular attacks = 10 regular wounds = 1 dead DC, 1 wound on Lemartes

PK Nob: 4 PK attacks = about 2 dead DC

PF DC: 2 PF attacks = 1 dead Boy

So, you lose roughly 4 to 8, lose another 4 Boyz to No Retreat!. So I understand why you've been having problems.

What I take away from this is that you want to charge him with multiple squads. If you can hit him with 2 Shoota Boy squads, you'd do around 9 unsaved wounds, and would obviously clean up during his turn.

The flip side is if the Death Company assaults

36 regular attacks equals 32 hits, 28 wounds, and 23 failed armor saves and that is before LeMartes attacks are added. So that 20 Boyz squad is wiped in one assault, and that does not include the Death Company shotting before it assaults.

Mr Economics is correct. You have to assault the DC before they get the chance to assault. The problem is a good BA player will not allow that to happen.

jbunny wrote:The flip side is if the Death Company assaults

36 regular attacks equals 32 hits, 28 wounds, and 23 failed armor saves and that is before LeMartes attacks are added. So that 20 Boyz squad is wiped in one assault, and that does not include the Death Company shotting before it assaults.

Mr Economics is correct. You have to assault the DC before they get the chance to assault. The problem is a good BA player will not allow that to happen.

It comes down to whether the DC has Jump Packs or not.

Without them, the Orks should easily be able to get the charge, by using the Wauugh. Remember, the DC have to move towards the closest enemy. It shouldn't be hard to get them within 8" or so of several Ork squads.

With JPs, it's tougher, but the DC still has Rage, and now each model is a significant investment.

It still would be helpful to know what the OP's army is.

Can we have your list and an attempt at his?

MrEconomics wrote:

jbunny wrote:The flip side is if the Death Company assaults

36 regular attacks equals 32 hits, 28 wounds, and 23 failed armor saves and that is before LeMartes attacks are added. So that 20 Boyz squad is wiped in one assault, and that does not include the Death Company shotting before it assaults.

Mr Economics is correct. You have to assault the DC before they get the chance to assault. The problem is a good BA player will not allow that to happen.

It comes down to whether the DC has Jump Packs or not.

Without them, the Orks should easily be able to get the charge, by using the Wauugh. Remember, the DC have to move towards the closest enemy. It shouldn't be hard to get them within 8" or so of several Ork squads.

With JPs, it's tougher, but the DC still has Rage, and now each model is a significant investment.

It still would be helpful to know what the OP's army is.

But the storm Raven negates the rage while they are in it., so a good BA player will unload then it is convienant. That or use a Landraider.

Ghazghkull Thraka.

lol, Ghazkhull would be good if I wasn't mostly foot slogging.

So my list is pretty much a kan wall with around 90 boyz and around 10 gretchins. Double kff mech at 1500 points. My friend always said his dc had fleet, so without that, I should have an easier time.

His op list, sometimes he makes some pretty nice combination like:

Mephiston, corbulo, DC. Corbulo givres FNP to mephiston which then charges me. After that, I am stuck in CC and the DC charges me (remember, OP mephiston has Wing of Sanguinus which makes him Jump Infantry if he passes the psychic test).

Last Time he tried the Snaguinor with the sanguinary guard and a DC but that didnt go so well because he forgot his PF on his DC, so i steam rolled him with my kans.

Can we see an example list for what you typically run?

Don't forget the rerolls lemartes gives they can be deadly I'd never run DC without it. There have been times when all my atacks came out as wounds

Mephiston, Corbulo, Lemartes AND Death Company!

It sounds like your friend really likes sinking lots of points into overpriced units. His army must be tiny. I would be interested to hear how his DC are equipped?

The first thing you should do is make sure he is playing the proper rules. DC can't fleet, and 10x DC with JP + Lemartes rocks in at 500 points before any upgrades. You could kit out 10 Nobz quite a bit for that.

Also remember DC always have to make their full move towards the closest enemy unit in the movement phase. This means you probably have much more control over how they move than your opponent does. You could use a sacrificial unit like a mob of Grotz or a Vehicle to separate them from Meph or to mess up their movement and prevent them from Assaulting the same unit as Mephiston. Then charge them with something else.

Normally I would suggest using heavy weapons to counter such an expensive numerically small army, Since your Devs would probably have little else to fire at after your opponent has blown all his points on SCs and DC. Though you being Orks with awesome BS2 might make that somewhat of a problem. But still a few ID shots on target should thin them out pretty quickly.

Run them around the field and dont worry about em if you have bikes and they dont have jp.

The dc are quite meh not taht great for what they cost and do.

Mephi on the other hand has worked wonders for me like throwing a couple of russes into the sun punching dreads in the face killing calgar and vulkan and lr killing so he is quite worth it imo.

Dc are difficult to control and if you are maneuverable and fast you can make him chase something silly all around the board.

They are pricey really pricey I prefer normal assault marines with a lib and a priest. More control a little less angry but the control is what wills ave you in the end.

I would worry about vindicators and baal preds those will grind you into red and green shreds.

Be wary of DC Rage shenanigans.
Technically only one model needs to move towards your closest model and with 2" coherency, he can keep moving the way he wants.

Typical list:

HQ
- Big Mek (KFF)
- Big Mek (KFF)

TROOPS
- 30x boyz w/ Nob (PK n' BP)
- 30x boyz w/ Nob (PK n' BP)
- 30 boyz w/ Nob (PK n' BP)

Sometime I cut ont eh boyz number and put some deff dreads as troops
- Deffdread (rokkits x2)

Heavy Support
- Kans X 3 (rokkits x3)
- Kans X 3 (rokkits x3)
- Kans X 3 (rokkits x3)

Some time I add deff koptas or bikers as FA, even some scorchas, it depends. BUt yeah you get the idea.

@Rewvenent Reiko
Yeah, Mephiston is a pain to deal with, but not as much as the DC, but like I asid, my friend was saying they had fleet, if they don't have fleet, that will change their assault range to 13'' to 18'' to 7'' to 12''. Which gives me the advantage.

Where ate the lootas? Those guys rock.

cowpow16 wrote:Where ate the lootas? Those guys rock.

I only have 5, and at these number, they almost never get their points back.

I also have one of the worst of luck with lootas. I end up doing more damage with S4 sluggas than S7 DeffGunz. I do not know why, lol. I have the same luck with my kans and their rokkits, even though they have the best BS of my army, they hit less than my sluggas, I just don't understand it, lol.

I run a pretty much identical kan wall at 1500 but almost always take two dreads with 2 xtra cc weapons. Rokits on dreads are kind of a waste with bs 2. What weapons are your kans running? Kan rokkits should be able to down a few if on foot.

Personally I've never faced dc but I would think kans or 5 attack dreads would wreck them. Both go before hammers/fists and every hit should kill one. Even if they have enough hammers to wipe the unit, 3 kans or 1 dread are much cheaper than dc and should kill more than their points worth and allow your boyz to get the charge on what's left.

well, I think the DC has krak nades or something that can take out kans pretty fast.

As for the 4 CCW dread, I bought some kustom dreads, so I am missing these CCW, lol, or the bits to make some kustom CCW.

That would eb worth a try thought.

Grenades only get 1 attack and only hit walkers on a 6 in cc. A unit of ten would be lucky to get 1 glance or pen with str 6 krak nades and I doubt they have melta nades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the grabin klaws and wrecking balls from the truck and wagon kits make great dccws, I used them to convert an old metal dread.

thmbscrws wrote:Grenades only get 1 attack and only hit walkers on a 6 in cc. A unit of ten would be lucky to get 1 glance or pen with str 6 krak nades and I doubt they have melta nades.

1 attack per model in the unit, or 1 attack per unit?

Per model

thmbscrws wrote:Per model

ok it sounded like per unit and I thought I misunderstood that rule, lol.

shoot the choppy ones!..

that is all

G00fySmiley wrote:shoot the choppy ones!..

that is all

lol, shotting at bs2 3+ with FNP will take FOREVER

15x lootas 225
15x lootas 225
15xl ootas 225

I only have 10 lootas but i just have boys stand in for lootas (my shop we are all fine with proxying i know someplaces aren't but if where you play is cool with it)

that's 675 points but a guarunteed 15 shots per group and possibly rolling 45 shots per unit and if you are REALLY luck 135 across the 3 ... even with bs2 that is statistically 5 s7 hits per unit in a worse case scenario and 15 if 3 hots each hard to save that many

didnt go mch to my FLGS, so I am not sure about how they stand with proxy.

I just try to not abuse from that, I could make big shootas stand in for lootas and see what happens though.

Actually many warbosses forget the third rule given to us by gork and mork: If ya can't choppa it, use a bigga choppa.

A unit of nobz should should cause heavy casualties to them, if not even beat them dead in one turn of combat. WS5 makes them harder to hit, 5++ vs those power weapons and FNP against the rest. Also klaws would ignore any FNP rolls and even instant-death lemartes if he gets hit by one.
Comparing them points-wise is kind of moot, as you're likely going to tear them up and walk away with more than half of your squad, as long as you get the charge. You can easily prevent the DC from charging your nobz by bubblewrapping them inside one of your ork mobs. If the charge that, those boyz would be dead, but the DC will be too next turn. If they don't charge the boyz... move them out of the way, charge the DC with nobz and then with boyz. Also remember that they will have a 4+ cover save when doing this.