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Howdy folks,

So a few days ago I mentioned that, as a noob to 40K tabletop, I was having a hard time picking an army, but leaning towards an assault-flavored army like the Black Templars or the Blood Angels. It's now down to those two choices, and it's a tough call. So, I'm asking for advice now that I've narrowed it down to these two.

In favor of the Black Templars, I like their fluff, I like their iconography and the look of their models, and I really, really like the fact that a footslogging army, while not tournament competitive, wouldn't necessarily get blasted off the board in casual play, which is all I'll be doing. I'm also a huge fan of the fact that they're assault-focused. On the other hand, I dislike their weak HQs/Special Characters, the age of the codex, and the fact that they don't lend themselves well to successors.

In favor of the Blood Angels, I like the assault focus and I like the codex, quite a bit, and I could totally be on board with assault marines. On the other hand, I despise their fluff, and I'm worried that using the codex for a non-BA successor chapter would be seen as the 'hopping on the bandwagon' that everybody seems to hate around here - I'd really like to do an assault-focused Raven Guard successor. I'm also iffy on the list prospects, the more I look around; it seems like every list is five guys with no gear in a Razorback, and I'd really like to run something that limits its armor to tanks and dreadnoughts and the like. Sort of like tanks spearhead up, and jump infantry follows behind. Dunno if that's possible.

It's a tough call. I'm not that worried about competitiveness, just having fun on the rare occasions I'll get to play, and of course the hobby aspects of everything. Maybe I should just be that guy that everybody hates and do an RG successor, using the BA codex, making use of BT iconography? I'd probably get shot.

BT will likely get a new codex some time next year. So if you want them, be careful with what you choose to buy.

Chances are they won't get much of their current stuff redone because of the bits sprue so you should be fine.

As for successors of the templars, they have a fleet system which are their successors for the most part. So you can do that if you wish.

So I think you should go black templar. You said you like their background and their general theme. And the models are just marines so easy to come by.

And if it turns out they suck, you can always do a counts as army and no one would fault you for it.

Even thought I'm originally a Templars player, you might find that the last few codices to be released really makes the BT codex feel underwhelming.

Remember, there's more to an army than "oh, this is sorta competitive, good enough." What I mean is that the BT codex is pretty boring right now. You'll find yourself using the same units performing the same roles over and over and over. There's very little variety and depth to the way Templars play, assuming you don't want to spend every game clearing your models off the table by the handful.

I'd go with Blood Angels, painted how you want to see them. There's just so much more there (game-wise anyway) that will keep your interest as you develop your skills as a commander.

EDIT: Also, BT update in the future, I forgot about that. It may be worth it to get Templars (carefully) and proxy as other armies for practice.

Well, if you're really wanting an all-infantry option, BA can do a DoA list, which is a ton of AM and other squads deepstriking. Much more flavorful than the boring LasPlas Razorspam.

BT can run very powerful shooting and assault lists. I'd go as far to say that I can out shoot C:SM. I think BA are stronger in assaults, but it's not a clear cut victory.

If you want flexibility play BT, shooting as BA is slowed.

Hmm. I'm starting to lean BA and I'm not sure why. The thought of a new BT codex is tempting, but I like to think I won't jump from bandwagon to bandwagon, at least as long as BA stay good in assault. That's kinda tough to guarantee though, isn't it?

What's tough to guarantee? That BA wouldn't be good in assault in the future? Highly unlikely. Even if 6th comes out and makes things like FNP suck (which they won't with an army like DE balanced around the mechanic) they'd still be a highly successful assault army.

I'd argue the BA may be a little more generalist assault where as GK and hopefully BT would be more specialized assault. But /shrug.

The only issue is when the BT codex comes out and how it fares. GW failed Dark Angels players miserably by releasing their codex at the end of an edition and completely changing their mindset on how they want 40k to proceed.

BT could be in the same boat with 6th rumored for next year too.

Nvs wrote:
I'd argue the BA may be a little more generalist assault where as GK and hopefully BT would be more specialized assault. But /shrug.

What do you mean?

Once you go black (templars) you never go back.

If you want to have an assault army, then BA it is. Assault squads as troops, Stormraven Gunships, dedicated transport land raiders that deep strike...
Your entire army will be able to deep strike!

Wait, how are Blood Angels more of a generalized assault army than Black Templars? If anything, I'd say the reverse is true, unless you mean that BA have more assault options spread across more of their FOC, which is true.

I'd personally recommend Black Templars simply because they're less common.

Just Dave wrote:I'd personally recommend Black Templars simply because they're less common.

Until the new codex comes out. I have a sneaking suspicion that if a good 'dex hits the racks, the badass, black-armored knights will suddenly see a Space Wolf-style influx.

They wouldn't even really need a new one if the FAQ had just fixed a few more things. An Eternal Warrior IC, HQ Weapon Skills, cheaper transports, etc.

Seaward wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I'd personally recommend Black Templars simply because they're less common.

Until the new codex comes out. I have a sneaking suspicion that if a good 'dex hits the racks, the badass, black-armored knights will suddenly see a Space Wolf-style influx.

They wouldn't even really need a new one if the FAQ had just fixed a few more things. An Eternal Warrior IC, HQ Weapon Skills, cheaper transports, etc.

I don't doubt that, but I suspect the BA's may stay more popular. Just looking at the army lists forum, obviously it's dominated by FotM (Grey Knights), but there's still A LOT of Blood Angels on there, whereas there are few Space Wolves. This - and other observations - suggests to me that Blood Angels are still going strong and popular, whereas Space Wolves for example has lost much of their FotM support it seems. This could be due to multiple waves for the BA's or GW pushing them more, but their fan-base seems to be fairly long-term it seems.
Obviously this is all speculation however; well, except for the BA's being more popular atm; that's true.

Movac wrote:BT can run very powerful shooting and assault lists. I'd go as far to say that I can out shoot C:SM. I think BA are stronger in assaults, but it's not a clear cut victory.

If you want flexibility play BT, shooting as BA is slowed.

This is untrue. I find that it's incredibly hard to win without the proper ranged support otherwise your already small numbers will be too small to make a dent in heavier assault based enemies like orks or sometimes nids. They are also important in taking out the enemies main firepower as deepstriking can be unreliable as you have to wait to assault and are thus meatshielded or blown away. I've never played black templars, but don't believe BA is all assault it's just their main advantage they still can put out plenty of dakka

I'd go black templars the color scheme is easy to paint and the models look great. They are also not too bad after having been FAQ'd not long ago.

I play both, having set my color scheme to work for either army. I find the BT to be more fun though and some of the combos are pretty sick. When my opponent charges my command group and I start counting out dice and he says "you have HOW many attacks?!"...yeah, it's a good thing You also have the BEST techmarines ever!! Throw em on a bike, give em some good gear and watch them rip stuff apart with 6+ attacks (2 base, bolt pistol, charge, 2 power fist attacks) with an 18" attack range. Not to mention throwing a Holy Hand Grenade (I mean Orb) and blasting off a flamer BEFORE the attack. A Techmarine right now can legitimately kill an entire unit by himself (biggest thing is he has 2 wounds!!). Want one less attack? Give him a storm shield. Want better survivability? Put him in a unit with other bikers. And don't get me started on how awesome your terminators are: 2 CMLs for the shooties, Furious charge for the assaulties. Good times. POTMS on any vehicle you want and cheap typhoon missile launchers. Also, army wide preferred enemy. Is there any downside? Oh, a few of our items are more expensive. But we always look at the negatives: a bunch of our gear is CHEAPER too! (power weapons, power fists, plasma guns, plasma pistols, melta bombs for assault marines, drop pods w/ built in POTMS, etc). It's awesome, I say go for them

Droma wrote:I'd go black templars the color scheme is easy to paint and the models look great. They are also not too bad after having been FAQ'd not long ago.

That almost made me choke on my sandwich. Easy to paint? Yes. Easy to paint while making sure it doesn't look gak? Not compared to the vast majority of other colour schemes.

I'd say go Black Templars, they look awesome and their fluff is awesome as well.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Droma wrote:I'd go black templars the color scheme is easy to paint and the models look great. They are also not too bad after having been FAQ'd not long ago.

That almost made me choke on my sandwich. Easy to paint? Yes. Easy to paint while making sure it doesn't look gak? Not compared to the vast majority of other colour schemes.

My esteemed battle brother speaks the truth. Do you KNOW how hard it is to make a black armoured model stand out? Amongst 50 other black models? It's fething challenging!

Anyway, back OT - go BT (not biased AT ALL). Purely because in a 2000 point (fun) game, you can field over 120 Marines (for the lolz . Competitively they can work - Land speeder spam or TH Terminator spam with double Cyclone is hideously effective.

Oh, and if you choose the good vow, your entire army gets Preferred Enemy.

Ah yes, I forgot the points-value issue. Black Templars are much much better (and more fun) at higher points levels, because a lot of their really powerful stuff can be used at the same time (Land Raiders, Trilas Predators, CML Termies, etc).

They seem to falter against fast armies at 1500 and below.

BA for the win and BT for the looks and fewer playing them. Which is more important to you?

mcyeatman wrote:BA for the win and BT for the looks and fewer playing them. Which is more important to you?

Actually, the "look" of the BT is starting to work against them. I like the models, don't get me wrong, but I was going to do my own chapter using BT rules, and I realized that no matter what complementary color I choose, everyone's going to think they're Black Templars.

I've been looking at it a little more, and it really is dead even at the moment. Blood Angels have far better beatstick HQs, which appeals to me for some reason. They can also run a small, elite army that doesn't need tanks, which REALLY appeals to me. It seems like every BT list would be a heavy deployment of tanks. Plus, jump packs are awesome. I'm not experienced enough to know for sure, but it seems like Furious Charge and Feel No Pain on most units is better than Preferred Enemy on all units and Furious Charge on a select few.

On the other hand, I don't want to be part of a huge crowd all doing the same thing, and I know as soon as I get a BA army painted, the new BT codex will come out with amazing assault units and so forth.

West wrote:They can also run a small, elite army that doesn't need tanks, which REALLY appeals to me. It seems like every BT list would be a heavy deployment of tanks.

Take it from me, you don't need many tanks at all. In fact, I've only got 2 (2 Rhinoes) in my 1750 list and it does just fine. Between Terminators, Land Speeders and Lasplas squads you've got more than enough firepower to blast anything you want away. Add in drop pods with fun stuff and you're golden!

West wrote:Howdy folks,

So a few days ago I mentioned that, as a noob to 40K tabletop, I was having a hard time picking an army, but leaning towards an assault-flavored army like the Black Templars or the Blood Angels. It's now down to those two choices, and it's a tough call. So, I'm asking for advice now that I've narrowed it down to these two.

In favor of the Black Templars, I like their fluff, I like their iconography and the look of their models, and I really, really like the fact that a footslogging army, while not tournament competitive, wouldn't necessarily get blasted off the board in casual play, which is all I'll be doing. I'm also a huge fan of the fact that they're assault-focused. On the other hand, I dislike their weak HQs/Special Characters, the age of the codex, and the fact that they don't lend themselves well to successors.

In favor of the Blood Angels, I like the assault focus and I like the codex, quite a bit, and I could totally be on board with assault marines. On the other hand, I despise their fluff, and I'm worried that using the codex for a non-BA successor chapter would be seen as the 'hopping on the bandwagon' that everybody seems to hate around here - I'd really like to do an assault-focused Raven Guard successor. I'm also iffy on the list prospects, the more I look around; it seems like every list is five guys with no gear in a Razorback, and I'd really like to run something that limits its armor to tanks and dreadnoughts and the like. Sort of like tanks spearhead up, and jump infantry follows behind. Dunno if that's possible.

It's a tough call. I'm not that worried about competitiveness, just having fun on the rare occasions I'll get to play, and of course the hobby aspects of everything. Maybe I should just be that guy that everybody hates and do an RG successor, using the BA codex, making use of BT iconography? I'd probably get shot.

Hey id choose the black templars, I dont collect them myself but personally if i will start a new army my choice would be black templars

West wrote:

mcyeatman wrote:BA for the win and BT for the looks and fewer playing them. Which is more important to you?

Actually, the "look" of the BT is starting to work against them. I like the models, don't get me wrong, but I was going to do my own chapter using BT rules, and I realized that no matter what complementary color I choose, everyone's going to think they're Black Templars.

I've been looking at it a little more, and it really is dead even at the moment. Blood Angels have far better beatstick HQs, which appeals to me for some reason. They can also run a small, elite army that doesn't need tanks, which REALLY appeals to me. It seems like every BT list would be a heavy deployment of tanks. Plus, jump packs are awesome. I'm not experienced enough to know for sure, but it seems like Furious Charge and Feel No Pain on most units is better than Preferred Enemy on all units and Furious Charge on a select few.

On the other hand, I don't want to be part of a huge crowd all doing the same thing, and I know as soon as I get a BA army painted, the new BT codex will come out with amazing assault units and so forth.

I really like BA. The options...assault marines as a troop choice, Stormraven, Mehpy, the extra 6" of movement, Priests, DOA, Red Thirst and the list goes on. But I sold them because of to many folks playing them at our store. This might not be the same at your store and with recent GK and soon to be new BT codex the BA band wagon might be over. I would poke around and see what everyone plays in your area. BA might be under played or the same could be true of BT. Its kind of nice having an army that most people don't play much.

These guys may have just tipped the balance in favor of Black Templars. They look awesome, and Templars need Assault Terminators to be good at Assault, which was a problem for me, as I hate the weird-ass Terminator helmets. Can't believe I didn't think of putting normal helmets on them. Looks so much more awesome.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/135291

Well congrats on choosing! Have fun joining the crusade. I think you'll find that your Assault Terminators are amazing in close combat, and loads of fun to play.

West wrote:These guys may have just tipped the balance in favor of Black Templars. They look awesome, and Templars need Assault Terminators to be good at Assault, which was a problem for me, as I hate the weird-ass Terminator helmets. Can't believe I didn't think of putting normal helmets on them. Looks so much more awesome.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/135291

Get painting already.

mcyeatman wrote:

West wrote:These guys may have just tipped the balance in favor of Black Templars. They look awesome, and Templars need Assault Terminators to be good at Assault, which was a problem for me, as I hate the weird-ass Terminator helmets. Can't believe I didn't think of putting normal helmets on them. Looks so much more awesome.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/135291

Get painting already.

I would, but the decision turned out to be not quite as final as I thought. Black Templars just sort of seem to lack the 'oomph' needed to be a decent assault army, and it doesn't sound like they're getting a new codex anytime soon, while Blood Angels are the best assault army that Space Marines have, so...

Still on the fence.