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Yo!

It's been a really long time since i've posted here, and i thought it was high time to get back into 40K (and therefore Dakka) after a long hiatus in the world of WHFB.
I have always fantasied making a decent NL army, but saw that with the current CSM rules it'd be sorta lame especially considering raptors are not so hot, and i couldn't take as many as I would've liked to!
so!I decided to use the BA codex! YAY! this is mostly a DoA list with the exception of the two dreadnaughts that will be hitting behind enemy lines hopefully on the 1st turn!

2000 points BA rules (night lords army)

HQ 385 points

Captain (meant to be a Zso Sahaal sorta guy ) 160 points
Jump Pack
2x Lightening Claws
Melta Bombs

5 Honor Guard 225 points
4x plasma guns
Jump packs

Elites: 395 points

2x Furioso Dreadnaughts in drop pods at 160 points each
one has 2x blood talons
one has a blood fist and a frag cannon

Sanguinary priest 75 points
jump pack

Troops: 640 points
3 units of 10 assault marines with 2 meltaguns each, two of the squads also have melta bombs

Fast Attack: 580 points

5 Vanguard Veterans
Jump packs
all but the sergeant haev powerfists

5 vanguard veterans
two have 2x lightening claws
the sergeant and the other two have a SS and power sword.

The main idea of this list is to be in your fae right away with lots of scary stuff, the dreadnaughts can be a wondrous source of tarpitting and fire absorbtion simply because they are vehicles and are big. if i get first turn i can really muck them up using the Vanguards as well because i can deploy using heroic intervention and hopefully destroy key enemy units such as tanks, and or heavy infantry. The Storm shileds in the second Vanguard squad are just there to soak up the wounds and all the shots that'll lilkely be headed their way, however i'm wondering if i should put SSs in the first squad for the same reason. I'm also debating a second sanguinary priest to create a larger FnP and FC bubble.

any thoughts?

all comments are welcome (except rudeness )

I am running a fairly similar list. the biggest problem i found is not having tank killing power on the turns you want to charge. if those meltaguns whiff, suddenly you are a sitting target. The way I run my list is as such:

your capt - the meltabombs (see my profile pic, it IS tso sahaal )

Libby with shield and unleash rage, jump pack

Honorguard w/ 3 power weps, banner, set of LC, and jump packs (to go with libby and Sahaal)

2 assault squads of lightning claws / meltagun
2 assault squads of fist / meltagun

2 sanguinary priests, (w/ lightning claw squads) jump packs / power weps

all LC pred
devs with 3 LC/1ML

I find that this list has the resilience while running across the board (FNP + shield) and also has the ability to knock out some transports before the squads get there.

I have found that any of the codices can do well with Night Lords. The biggest misconception is that the Night Lords are assault heavy. Only the first company was such, because of Sahaal, the rest of the legion is essentially the same as all the others.
Shrike lists work in the C:SM if you like that, I just finished putting together a fairly decent SW list, and I even like running them as CSM. (two twenty man MoS raptor squads, what isnt to like?) Quite honestly, I'm happy if i can get just one squad of hardhitting jump troops + captain / lord with lightning claws.
But as I said, Night Lords can do well in any of the current codices, it's just a matter of knowing how you are playing, as Night Lords are more of a play style / paint scheme than a type of army list.

Thanks for the reply Zephyr!

I actually didn't know that aobut the Lords not being assault oriented but it's quite logical since fear can be caused just as easily with a bullet i suppose...
I really wanted to emphasize the CC orientation of the 1st company, which as you said, was lead by Sahaal himself. I think that the powerfist idea is really good for the assault squads because
that way they can use their melta bombs AND the fist. However it seems to me that 6 meltaguns isnt too shabby, especially since the 4 plasma can reliably pop AV12 and under, so many shots is going to do something to a tank with that armor.
I might try and stick a power fist into the SS vanguard squad just to make it a little more versatile!

I understand your Heavy Support choices but i just couldn't justify them myself tanks just seem...wrong...in an army that includes Zso, but i can TOTALLY understand why you'd take predators, and i'm not faulting your for that, it's just not my preference,
plus i abhor painting tanks

the librarian is a cool idea, and you've got a lot of assault squads which is interesting, what's your take on the vanguard? they seem just to OTT not to include in a list using BA rules! plus i can make the models really really cool

Firstly, check this out, it gives you my 3 basic lists plus the SW one i put together:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374657.page

I love me my tanks AND my assault marines.. it's hard to balance them really : P I get by with preds in all the lists though.

Vanguard are really pricey for my tastes, although that SM list uses them (only cause honorguard cant take jump packs in the vanilla codex... )
Honestly I mainly took the honorguard squad cause of that banner, but remember this: take a second HQ of any type and you can have a second honor guard! replace one of those vanguard squads with a better honor guard (the banner is legit)

Also, One thing i toyed with was a furioso libby with the two leadership psychic powers. i had some great games of dropping down and forcing people off the board turn one. (most memorably a tau suit squad w/ that HQ guy)

I love playing the 1st company style of Night Lords, I just feel like I need to qualify that Night Lords used all the same equipment, just using the better different style of fear tactics, and fast night raids.

Ooof.

Two Honor guard squads? thats expensive!
It really is quite an amazing unit, but i'm basically buying an HQ to get access to a FnP
Vangaurd Squad, which is just great except that i'd be throwing them at the really scary stuff that i'm not sure FnP would even work against a lot of the time (high ap and power weapons)
It would free up quite a few points for me to take other fst attack units, such as an attack bike squad with multi meltas which might just solve my quite annoying anit-mech list issues...

I think i'll run my original list at least for a while but your ideas are very intriguing to me especially since the librarian can be quite powerful.
the only reason i didn't take a furioso libby is because it cannot take the talons or the frag cannon, which are both so great!

Ok not a bad list, but could be better.

Captain is a pile of dog crap. Not very killy in combat and better options. I'd rather take a Reclusiarch for re-roll goodness.

Honour Guard are cool and awesome setup for plasma guns thanks to FnP.

Problem with your Drop Pods is one will come down first turn unsupported and the Dreadnought will be blown to bits when the other one comes down whenever. You need a odd amount of Pods to get the most in first turn.

Assault Squads should have power fists.

Vanguards don't need all power fists. You need a mix of weapons to make them flexible against tanks, infantry and monstrous creatures.

Really? Zso Sahaal is crap?!?!?
haha it's all good, he's not really that impressive i guess.
Okay here is a new list suing your advice.

HQ: 400 points
Reclusiarch 175 points
powerfist
JP

The same 4 plasma honor guard at 225 points

Troops: 637 points
10 assault marines
jp
2x melta
powerfist

10 assault marines
powerfist
2x melta
jp

9 assault marines
jp
meltafun
melta bombs
chaplain would probably go here

elites:
the same two furioso dreads as before

Fast attack:
1st vanguard squad:
jp

sergeant has a powerfist
veteran 1 has 2 claws
V 2 2 claws
V 3 has a SS and Csword
V4 has a bolt pistol and Csword :(
2nd squad
jp
sergeant has a pfist and bolt pistol
V1 has a powerfist
V2 has a storm shield and chainsword
V3 2x claws
V4 2x claws

total is 1997 points

Any help with this is appreciated!

Which of these infantry units should go in a drop pod so i can have 3 pods?

Don't put a powerfist on the Reclusiarch as 1. he loses the extra attack and 2. strikes last in assault which isn't good for I.Cs.

You considered taking a heavy support Dreadnought for a Pod and give it a assault cannon for side armour shots maybe or blast some infantry or even monstrous creature.

A drop pod/DoA list I tried was this: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2011/01/army-lists-blood-angels-dod-2000-points.html

Blood Angels "Descent of Dreadnoughts" - 2,000 points

HQ

Librarian - jump pack, shield of sanguinus & unleash rage

Elite

2 x Sanguinary Priests - jump packs

Furioso Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod - heavy flamer & extra armour

Furioso Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod - heavy flamer & extra armour

Troops

10 x Assault Marines - 2 x meltaguns - Sgt w/ power fist

10 x Assault Marines - 2 x meltaguns - Sgt w/ power fist

10 x Assault Marines - 2 x meltaguns - Sgt w/ power fist

10 x Assault Marines - 2 x flamers - Sgt w/ power weapon

Heavy Support

Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod - multimelta - Drop Pod w/ locator beacon

Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod - multimelta - Drop Pod w/ locator beacon

Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod - multimelta

I'm not sure if that's any use to you, but it has more Dreadnoughts. You could maybe ditch a Assault Squad for a single Vanguard unit and when I played this list I never found the multi meltas that impressive, hence my reason for assault cannons.

Wow that's a savage list!
I think I'll take your advice and use this as a template to work from

I think I'd drop two of the HS dreads and then put in the honor guard unit. I'd also switch the librarian for either a captain or a reclusiarch.
The rest of the list is perfect! But I'd really like to have a unit of VVs, which I'll probably use as a sideboard for when I'm fighting MEQ armies.

What do you think of the ideas here? Are the three drop dreads enough? And is it worth dropping one of the five you had to take an honor guard squad with the four plasmas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay here's a rough draft of my newest Night Lords list: 2000 points and inspired by DoA lists. There is some fluff liscense here, which pretty much includes no tanks...and i'd prefer all jump infantry since
this is intended to be from the Night Lords 1st company.

HQ
Reclusiarch 155 points
Jump Pack

Honor Guard 225 points
Jump Packs
4x Plasmaguns

Elites:

Furioso Dreadnaught 170 points
blood talons
drop pop
locator beacon

Furioso Dreadnaught 160
frag cannon
drop pod

Sanguinary Priest 75 points
jump pack

Troops:
3x 10 assault marines as 225 each
powerfist
one meltaguna each

Fast Attack:
2 Attack bikes at 100 points
2 multi-meltas

Vanguard Veterans: 290 points
Sergeant: Powerfist, storm shield
Vet one: bolt pistol power weapon
Vet two: Storm Shield Chainsword
Vet three: paired lightening claws
Vet four: paired lightening claws
jump packs for all.
(the priest would likely go here)

Heavy support:

Dreadnaught: 150 points
assault cannon
drop pod

Thats the list. i'd hope to get the locator beacon down first and get the dreads into the fray asap, then use the ground that they secure as a staging ground for some of my squads to land in relative safety.
The bikes are there for rapid attack on stuff like land raiders, and other big bad vechicles, but they are not dear to my heart and can go if need be.
there are a lot of things i could do with those 100 points though, such as extra armor for the talon and frag dreads to ensure that they assault whenever the can, as well as an extra melta for each squad.

If you see anything glaringly wrong about this list please do speak up, i'd really like to hear it!

thanks for reading!

Fe

No worries about using it as a template man. Like I said I used it a few times perhaps once or twice and that's it. Could do with some fine tuning.

Your list though stick with the blood talons on the Furioso because they are awesome. Frag cannon isn't that good S6 AP- rending if I remember right and a template, assault 2 though I think?

I would definately drop the Bikes as they do not suit the list, everything in the list is meant to deep strike. I would invest in another Priest. Btw Priest cannot go with Vanguard as they cannot assault then thanks to heroic intervention rule.

I really appreciate you posting the list, thanks again

Now on to your advice:
I cannot take two furiosos and two priests because that'd make four elites choices.
I could drop one of the furiosos and take a standard dread? i'd porbably drop the frag cannon dreadnaught.
The frag cannon itself isnt too bad, it just is'nt awesome! it seems like if it got lucky it could really mess up some units, and it'd wound on 2's usually.
You're right about where i put the priest, I guess I'll just plop him into an assault sqaud as well as my HQ.

The only question left to me now is:
Is a furioso more vital to this list than another sanguinary priest?
as i've never used either i'm going to leave the answering to you my friend!

thanks for reading!

Fe

Two Furiosos and two Priests = 3 elites, you can take 3 Priests PER elite slot .

If it's not awesome then don't take it. Blood talons are awesome!

Ooooooooohhhhhhhh! Lol.
Army builder doesn't know that

I'll certainly take another blood talon dread then!

Army builder is slowed

I have rather slowly been figuring this fact out

One last question. It has to do with the vanguard veteran squad.
Is it even worth it to tool them up the way I did? It seems like i've dumped a lot of points into them at this point and I'm not sure that it's worth it. And are two storm shields Enough to keep the unit safe? 3+ 3++ seems pretty decent to me, and two guys should be able to make the few saves that the armor doesn't make ( I'm assuming that saves are the same as in WFB, armor followed by invulnerable? It's been a while since I've played 40K). Especially since the rest of the unit is armed and deadly!
Maybe give 3 storm shields and each guy with a shield has a lightening claw? Then two power fists? How's that sound?

Also where would you put the pair of priests and the chaplain? Each one into a different assault squad?

Thanks for all your help!

no, they only get to use either / or, not both. with a stormshield it hardly matters, as you will take the invuln save on everything.

I would almost not spend the points on the stormshield guys, as they will be the ones taking the wounds first, so when they die it isnt that much of a blow

So you'd recommend no storm shields?
I guess that makes tons of sense because they should be in CC as soon as they arrive on the board and the SS seems more useful against shooting as I'm unlikely to encounter enough power weapons to warrant multiple storm shields, and I can make the damage output for the unit much better if I don't take shields.

Do you think they're worth it? I can't really decide. It seems like one might be a good idea, but I'm not sure at all!

Thanks for posting!

No, I would almost definitely say have at least one and maybe even two storm shields in the squad specifically for the invuln saves. You will be able to allocate the random ap3 and lower in shooting and random power weapon / fist attacks away from your actual hitters

Here are my thoughts:

First, I'm not a huge fan of mixing armor and jump infantry. With only 3 vehicles, it will be easy for your opponent to deal with them. Killing vehicles is what most lists these days are optimized to do, since mech is king.

Second, I think you have too much wargear in the VV squad. My preference is a 5 man squad with JPs and 1 Power Fist (on the Sarge). It costs 175 points, whereas yours costs 290. The priest should not go with them, as they can't use their Heroic Intervention rule if he does. At the very least, don't run dual claws. You pay 15 extra points for 1 extra attack. It simply isn't worth it. A single claw is better than a Power Weapon, though. I've done the math.

More minor stuff: You really should get a second Meltagun in each Assault Squad. I'd run the Attack Bikes separately, so they're harder to kill. Actually, I wouldn't run them at all.

One thing to consider if you take my advice and drop the dreads: Take 4x Missile Launcher Devastator squads. You wouldn't want to reserve anything except VV squads if you do this, but it is a valid playstyle. They can help pop open the ubiquitous transports and suppress enemy vehicles, plus thin out hordes and help deal with MCs.

hrmmmm...the dreads are mostly there for personal preferance, and i was trying to have all units be either in a pod or have jump packs. I agree on dropping the bikes, and i also agree that my VV costs way too much, i could get a whole exta squad of assault marines with the points from that and the bikes togeather.

Are the dreads really that bad? i mean if i drop them where they cannot be seen or drop two pods to form a wall to hide them it seems like they could be quite potent, and they'd also force an enemy to choose between deadly dreadnaughts, and deadly squads.

I took some of your advice and here's what i came up with:

HQ: Librarian 125 points
Shield
Unleash rage
Jump Pack
epistolary

Honor Guard: 225 points
jump packs
4x plasma

Elites:
2x Sang Priests at 75 points
2x furioso dreads in drop pods, one at 185, one at 195 (beacon)
Talons
H flamers
extra armor

Troops:
3x 10 assault marines at 235 points each
2 meltas
powerfist
jump packs

Fast Attack: 215 points

5 VV
powerfist
2 SS
jump packs

Heavy support:
dreadnaught 150 points
assault cannon
drop pod

Total: 2K on the nose

Now, i totally understand your quals about running the dreads at all MrEconomics, however i think that they could add some interesting dynamics to my battles in a few ways:
1. they do soak up a ton of fire, which is good, because they are meant to be kamakizies and pave the way for my jumpers.
2. they can be reliably deployed exatly where i need them, and since the furiosos have a melta gun, they have a 1/2 chance of hitting the tank they might drop 6' behind.
3. they aren't that easy to kill, and if i deploy my drop pods right, they can be totally obscured for the first round of shooting anyways, forcing my foe to either redeploy away from them (wasting his shooting, and likely moving towards my inbound infantry), or he can move up and try to sneak a shot around the drop pod (risky and could make slaughtering him that much easier).
4. they are very cool.
5. it breaks up a list that would otherwise be "oh cool you're deep striking with 60 marines...ugh".

i was also interested by your ideas regarding devastator squads, but i chose not to use them because i can already pop transports easily
with both my HG and my HS dread, as well as all the melta i have running around. Also because against MCs i also have the HG who can run up in its face
shoot 8 times, and live to tell the tale. Against hordes of orks or nids, well i've got three dreads with heavy flamers...and two of them have blood talons.
Those are not anything a horde player wants to tangle with.

Despite disagreeing with you, your input was very valuable, because i had to spend a long time thinking on how best to keep my dreads alive against a mech-killer army
I do have a question for you though, is my libby going to help at all? and is epistolary worth it? if not, where can i put that chunk of points?

Thanks so much for posting!

Fe

p.s
Based on your avatar i'm going to guess you attended University of Chicago? Am i right? if so i'm thinking about applying there!
again, thanks for your input.




****EDIT*****
I've been informed i need to run at 3k

Here's a 3k list!

Hq:

Reclusiarch
jump pack
melta bombs

Librarian
Shield
unleash rage
epistolary
jump pack

Honor guard
4x plasma
JPs

Elites:

Furioso
Blood Talons
drop pod
locator beacon
heavy flamer
extra armor

furioso
Talons
pod
heavy flamer
extra armor

2x Sang priests
JPs

Troops:
3 squads of 10 AS marines
JPs
2x meltas
powerfist

1 squad of 10 with
powerfist
2x flamers

Fast Attack:
2 squads of 5 VVs with
powerfist
2 LCs (not paried)
2 SSs (these guys have Cswords)

Heavy support:
3x dreadnaughts
Assault cannon
pod
heavy flamer

what do you think?

too few troops?? thats my main worry here.

Well, thanks for considering my advice.

You are correct, I am an alumnus of the University of Chicago (A.B. 2003). Good luck with your application; it's a great school. Not much of a scene for CCGs or tabletop wargaming when I was there, surprisingly.

As for the 3000 point list, I think it looks decent. I've never played at such a high points value, so I'm probably not the best person for advice. I would at least suggest you drop the Epistolary upgrade, though. You can cast Shield on your opponent's turn and UR on your own without it, so the 50 points are better spent elsewhere. I'd also take a second Librarian instead of the Reclusiarch. Except for a Death Company, his best power (Litanies) can be more-or-less replicated by UR. So a Librarian does most of what a Chaplain does, plus other stuff, for cheaper.

Indeed, i actually inquired about a table top club on my tour and there wasn't one as far as they knew...

I have drafted a new 3K list based on the advice of a BA player at my local GW.
He said that DC squads and dreads might be a really good addition because of how devastating they are, and how fun they
are to play with.

So here goes:

Librarian:
Shield
Unleash Rage
Jump Pack

Reclusiarch

5 honor guard
jump packs
4x plasma

Elites:
2x furioso dreads
talons
extra armor
drop pods (one has a beacon)
heavy flamers

3x sanguinary priests
jump packs

Troops:
4x squads of 10 assault marines
powerfist
2x meltas in three squads
2x flamers in another

9 death company
2 powerfists
2 power weapons

death company dread
drop pod (beacon)
talons
heavy flamer

Heavy Support:
2x dreadnaughts
assault cannon
heavy flamer

stormraven
extra armor
plasma cannons (DC and reclusiarch go here)


I've got 5 points left, and i'm wondering if i should swap the Furiosos for DC dreads, which are just better at using the talons.
what do you think?

i really like the idea of using a stormraven, especially now that i know how to actually make it not look like a space guppy.

Any general advice? Or what to do with 5 points? 5 searchlights maybe?? lol

In my opinion, one of the biggest allures of a Death Company is being able to take DC Dreads, but you already have maxed out your Troops choices, so you'd have to cut an Assault Squad to up the number of DC Dreads. I wouldn't do it, but again, I have zero experience at 3000 points.

To be honest, I think Stormravens need to be run in multiples. At 3000, I'd take 3 if I take any. A Stormraven list would be a great way to do a Dread-themed list, so here's a thought:

HQ: Mephiston 250
HQ: Librarian with JP 125
EL: Furioso with Talons 125
EL: 5 TH/SS Terminators 225
EL: 2 Sanguinary Priests with JPs 150
TR: 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist 235
TR: 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist 235
TR: 10 Assault Marines, 2 Flamers, Power Fist 225
TR: 10 Death Company Marines with 1 Power Fist 225
TR: Death Company Dreadnought with Talons 125
TR: Death Company Dreadnought with Talons 125
FA: MM/HF Landspeeder 70
FA: MM/HF Landspeeder 70
FA: MM/HF Landspeeder 70
HS: Stormraven with EA 215
HS: Stormraven with EA 215
HS: Stormraven with EA 215

Total: 2900

You can spend the rest on wargear, like Infernus Pistols or extra CC weapons for the DC. I wouldn't take Hurricane Bolters on the Stormravens, as they'll draw enough fire as is. You could also consider a third Sanguinary Priest in TDA to go with the Termies.

The list has some issues. You only have 3 scoring units, although you can always Combat Squad. A bigger issue is the Stormravens. If you go first, great. If not, you'll need to reserve them, which is going to add a lot of randomness to your results. Should be fun to play though. I think this points level is a great place to try stuff typically inefficient stuff like a Death Company, since the scarce resource is really FOC slots, not points, and the demand for the Troops slot isn't so high.

Oh, by the way, if you can find some interested people, you can always start a wargaming club. You'll have to go through some bureaucracy, but they'll give you a little money if you can get enough interest. A bigger issue is that there isn't a local FLGS. Your best bet is probably to go to the suburbs if you have access to a car.