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HQ
Captain
- Powerfist
- Combi Plasma
o 135 points

Command Squad
- 5 strong
- 4 Plasmaguns
- Standard bearer
o 190 points

Razorback
o 40 points

Troops
Tactical marine squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Plasma Rifle
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Sword
o 215 points

Tactical marine squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Plasma Rifle
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Sword
o 215 points

Tactical marine squad
- Lascannon
- Meltagun
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Sword
o 215 points
Razorback
o 40 points
Tactical marine squad
- Lascannon
- Meltagun
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Sword
o 215 points
Razorback
o 40 points

Heavy Support
Land Raider
- Chronus
- Storm Bolter
- Hunterkiller Missile
o 340 points

Predator
- Lascannon sponsons
- Twin-linked Lascannons
- Hunterkiller Missile
o 175 points

Predator
- Lascannon sponsons
- Twin-linked Lascannons
- Hunterkiller Missile
o 175 points

Packing a whopping 10 lascannons, four of which are twin-linked, this list is meant to take out tanks and monsterous creatures. The command squad is meant to sit pretty in the middle of infantry [in front of the land raider.] while a combat squad of plasma cannon/plasma gun sits close with a lascannon combat squad out to the side, and the same for both sides.
behind, the land raider sits behind the command squad and captain, while the predators hide behind the two tactical squads.

If the mission has many objectives, the three razorbacks will kit out infantry with meltaguns and plasma pistols to go hold an objective, while the gunline maintains as many positions as possible.
if not, the two meltagun squads shift forward as forlorn hopes, while the plasma cannon squads become full 10-man squads. a razorback will flank each predator, and another will stay on the outer flank and attempt to outmanoeuvre any enemy tanks or infantry who try to come at the side armour of the predators.

The only three armies that this will fall down against in my experience are tau with three hammer heads, orks with many boys [or high strength weapons!] and 'nids with way too many trygons [even then, those lascannons will take out a trygon quicksmart] the counts-as BS10 lascannons on the land raider [chronus] will take out important targets, and krak missiles into venomthorpes is always good.

thoughts?
DOW isn't an issue

Hmm, reminds me of anti marine lists I've seen with all that plasma. I don't think I like the pp on the sarges though. That's points that could be going to transport. Then you have mixed tacs in the razorbacks. With melta and LC it's a conflict of interest to stay and shoot both LC/razorback or move up to shoot the melta. Maybe give it to the Plasma squads and give the melta/LC squads a rhino.

As you said this seems weak against horde armies...

This isn't a criticism so much as a question (my 40k tactical knowledge is VERY limited), but wouldn't Chronus be better suited in one of your preds? All the weapons on the LR are twin linked anyway. I've considered putting him in a LR before but seeing as how I can reroll missed Las shots anyway, his points cost never seemed worth it.

Plasma pistols seem expensive for the little use they will get. Maybe same with power swords as well ...

Land raider with Chronus is huge cost for a las platform. Maybe drop for another pred and save a bunch of points.

No mention of upgrades of razorbacks - you can go las/plas here or maybe even heavy flamers for some anti-horde. I assume they are not remaing with the heavy bolter option.

Captain seems kind of meh at 2,000 points. Maybe run a librarian. I'd then take sternguard rather than command squad.

I think you are including too many high point options that will not earn there points back.

Plasma postal are not really worth it. Paying extra points to maybe get one shot at str7 and ap2. It's better to save the points and get another unit.

I agree with other posters that Chronos just isn't worth the points especially on a land raider. On that point a land raider really isn't worth the points from a pure gun line point of view. You have a limited number of shots for 250pts. Land raiders are worth it when they deliver an uber close combat unit but not for their own killyness.

Other then that sounds like a good start.

I am sad since I do not see any vindicators why are there none that gives you anti anything that moves.

This is kind of a sad gun line.

More tac marines and possibly speeders those things can help a lot and can help contest objectives.

Maybe a liby as hq since they are better in almost every way.

Uhhh no devastators?

Things I'm not feeling:
-plasma pistols
-power swords
-standard bearer

Things I'm really not feeling:
-340pts empty landraider?
-Your predators. Drop the turret and the HK missile or the sponsons and the HK missile.

Things I would go for with gunline marines:
-typhoon speeders
-devastators
-thunderfire cans
-a whirlwind if you've got slots

I would not go with a whirlwind vindicator may be more expensive but str 10.

Also can marine speeders take hf mm combo? Those work well.

The list looks pretty expensive, as far as individual models go. It's not a bad gunline persay, but it does have room for improvement.

To start, you have a few things in the list that don't suit the list well, both for practical and fluff reasons.

1. The Command Squad is okay, but there's no need for a Standard Bearer. I would also give the Captain a Relic Blade instead, to take advantage of his Init 5 in CC. Give him a Combi-melta instead, and now you have a decent Anti-Tank/Infantry Commander.

2. Tact Sgts. won't need Plasma Pistols, unless you plan to push forward with them in Rhinos/Razorbacks. If your plan is to just sit back and shoot, that's 15 points/model you can invest elsewhere. Power Weapons are a "Hit or Miss" in Shooty lists. On the one hand, they don't add anything to your ranged shooting, but on the other, if they ever get caught in CC (which is likely to happen eventually), PW's make them more survivable. Play around with their options and see which works best for you. Also, I hope you intend to Combat Squad all of your Tactical squads, as to maximize the number of shots you'd be having each turn. If you leave them as one unit, then unless you're within 12-24" of the enemy, one of your special weapons will never get a chance to shoot. By putting them in Combat Squads, you maximize your chances of getting more shots.

3. I'm a bit dubious of the empty Land Raider as well. Unless you plan on having your Command Squad or a Combat Squad riding in it, having an empty Land Raider just moving around and shooting without anyone in there is a waste. At least with a Combat Squad, you have a Scoring Unit that can claim objectives. And being AV 14, Land Raiders are a lot more resilient compared to the normal transport choices. Chronus is also unnecessary as well. I'm also not a fan of "One Shot" weapons either. HK Missiles, while are fun to watch work, are not worth 10 points. Put the 80 points combined between that and Chronus into something else.

4. I used to be a big fan of the Las/TL Las Predators. However, after playing a few games with different variants, I find that they are pretty expensive. I'd go with the Autocannon/Lascannon variant instead. It saves you 45 points, and you're still reliably taking down light to medium vehicles.

Suggestions on what to add:

1. A Master of the Forge wouldn't be a bad addition to Shooty SM List. Give him a Conversion Beamer, along with a few Servitors (bare, without upgrades) for a bit of wound allocation protection, and you've got a pretty strong long range blast weapon. Obviously if you have him in cover, you can bolster the terrain piece he's in, and now he has a 3+ Cover Save.

2. While being somewhat overpriced, Devastator Squads with Missile Launchers aren't a bad addition either. I suggest Missile Launchers because they are the cheapest and most versatile weapons they can have. You can put them in the same building as the MotF as well, which will give them good cover and (hopefully) full sight and range of the board when you deploy.

Aside from that, there could a few things to add/consider for the list (such as Land Speeders, Bike Squads), but for the most part, Fast Attack units aren't necessary for what you're trying to accomplish. Just be prepared for anything that can Deep Strike within your Deployment Zone (ie - Drop Pod Armies, or Chaos Daemons), and be ready to take on things in CC when you need to. Good luck!

I guess I'm crazy but here goes...

Scipio Africanus' gunline marines *revamped* with DEATH BASTARD config. devsquads

Captain: RB/combimelta
-command squad: PGx4
-stronos razorback
o 290 points

Tactical marines: MG/MM
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 260 points

Tactical marines: MG/LC
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 270 points

Tactical marines: MG/LC
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 270 points

Typhoon speeder
Typhoon speeder
o 180 points

Dreadnought
-pod
Dreadnought
-pod
o 280pts

Devastators: MLx3, HB
-deathwind pod
Devastators: MLx3, HB
-deathwind pod
o 410 points

1990pts

Check it out. I dropped one tactical squad because a gunline really needs killy guns and tacsquads are pretty so-so at that. I would have dropped all of them for scouts and spent points in other slots but I didn't want to mess up your list TOO much. The first tacsquad is intended to split into one squad with sergeant, special and heavy weapons to go and blow their load or take shots with the MM while the other part is just 5 guys with bolters that will probably make themselves useful somehow. All squads still have a plasmagun but twinlinked.

I gave the captain a relic blade because it's a lot killier on him than a PF unless you're only going for vehicles. The combi-melta is going to serve you better than plasma I can almost guarantee.

The Death Bastard Devastators take full advantage of their signum, you can make either an ML or HB hit on 2+ depending on who you're shooting. Could change an ML into LC but it's expensive and not worth it when shooting most infantry. They are mounted in deathwind pods for those (seemingly much more than) 1/3 of games where they can't deploy normally. Devastators suck in Dawn of War because if you've got proper terrain coverage then they're not unlikely to spend a turn or two finding firing positions that aren't even optimal. In Dawn of War, bring their pods in on turn 1 to rectify this and let the dreads drop in later to mess stuff up that's managed to get close. In normal deployment, deploy the devastators and bring in their pods empty to serve as roadblocks, screens or just to mess up hordes.

If you really don't want the typhoons (they rule ass), maybe get a naked predator for screening razorbacks and blocking off enemies, or a squad of sternguard.

Deathwind Drop Pods rarely earn back their points, in my experience with using them. Personally, I'd rather just give the Dev Squads Rhinos, and use the extra points to add more models to the unit. Either way, if you're playing Dawn of War, the Dev Squads can't shoot the turn they come into play. The best strategy I've employed with them in a DoW game is driving them to the nearest piece of terrain cover (which is hopefully close to your board edge, have them disembark, and probably even "Run" further that turn to make better use of their cover. Turn 2 is the earliest they'll get to shoot their Heavy Weapons, so I find that it's usually better to dedicate the entire turn prior to that to moving them into better positioning.

Otherwise, the rest of Almarine's list looks fairly solid. I may just drop the Dreadnoughts all together, but that's just me.

Rhinos can certainly work well too. You've got 12" of movement from the rhino and 1-6" from running. If you have a good position within that distance from the edge, great. I'd go with razorbacks though since the squad is just 5 guys anyway.

I threw in the pods because it's nice, as a gunline army, to be able to reach out and put stuff where you want it. Deathwind launchers aren't everyones' cup of tea but they can definitely throw a spanner in the works of some horde armies. With a large blast of death, their only real drawback is crap range. But that can make them useful as tools of area denial. The dreads are the cheapest way to get pods that is still useful in your list, so they're mainly there to let you put the pods you want down when you want them, but they're nice to have around when nothing else is likely to enter your opponent's DZ.

Almarine wrote:I guess I'm crazy but here goes...

Scipio Africanus' gunline marines *revamped* with DEATH BASTARD config. devsquads

Captain: RB/combimelta
-command squad: PGx4
-stronos razorback
o 290 points

Tactical marines: MG/MM
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 260 points

Tactical marines: MG/LC
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 270 points

Tactical marines: MG/LC
-combimelta
-stronos razorback
o 270 points

Typhoon speeder
Typhoon speeder
o 180 points

Dreadnought
-pod
Dreadnought
-pod
o 280pts

Devastators: MLx3, HB
-deathwind pod
Devastators: MLx3, HB
-deathwind pod
o 410 points

1990pts

Check it out. I dropped one tactical squad because a gunline really needs killy guns and tacsquads are pretty so-so at that. I would have dropped all of them for scouts and spent points in other slots but I didn't want to mess up your list TOO much. The first tacsquad is intended to split into one squad with sergeant, special and heavy weapons to go and blow their load or take shots with the MM while the other part is just 5 guys with bolters that will probably make themselves useful somehow. All squads still have a plasmagun but twinlinked.

I gave the captain a relic blade because it's a lot killier on him than a PF unless you're only going for vehicles. The combi-melta is going to serve you better than plasma I can almost guarantee.

The Death Bastard Devastators take full advantage of their signum, you can make either an ML or HB hit on 2+ depending on who you're shooting. Could change an ML into LC but it's expensive and not worth it when shooting most infantry. They are mounted in deathwind pods for those (seemingly much more than) 1/3 of games where they can't deploy normally. Devastators suck in Dawn of War because if you've got proper terrain coverage then they're not unlikely to spend a turn or two finding firing positions that aren't even optimal. In Dawn of War, bring their pods in on turn 1 to rectify this and let the dreads drop in later to mess stuff up that's managed to get close. In normal deployment, deploy the devastators and bring in their pods empty to serve as roadblocks, screens or just to mess up hordes.

If you really don't want the typhoons (they rule ass), maybe get a naked predator for screening razorbacks and blocking off enemies, or a squad of sternguard.

Why is everyone fond of missile launcher Devs? They're expensive and really not as great as everyone thinks. they're not 'flexible', they're caught between two duties. they are okay against horde, but not against heavy infantry MC or tanks. No, S8 Is not viable against AV12. you're penning on a 5+.

How about, rather than force-feeding me your list, you give me what I already have and tweak that.

Now, removing those plasmaguns and the power swords, I feel is viable. it's just from my WSYWIG standpoint, it's difficult to re-paint power swords I spent time on.

This suggestion of pods? tell me, how the feth is that a gunline if noones formed in a line, if no-ones anywhere near each other.

Y'know what? I realise you're trying to help me; stop trying. you're doing a poor job of it.

The Lascannon/meltagun squads are always combat squads. and on those ones, even in a gunline, the melta will move along and take objectives and [hopefully do something against tanks.]

If you're gonna tell me it's rickety, it's about as rickety as a sergeant with a combi-melta and a relic blade.

cowpow16 wrote:I am sad since I do not see any vindicators why are there none that gives you anti anything that moves.

This is kind of a sad gun line.

More tac marines and possibly speeders those things can help a lot and can help contest objectives.

Maybe a liby as hq since they are better in almost every way.

I loose all faith in this entire forum

I had 3 vindicators and LS typhoons in this list.

Y'know what? People didn't like it.

I changed it, and now what? I need them back in.

And, for the record, while no plasmaguns makes sense, NOT EVERYTHING WILL MAKE ITS POINTS BACK. that means your thunderhammer unit can ONLY give you 200 points. Your landraider can ONLY give you 250 points

Stop telling me what will earn back its points. Because that means abseloutely nothing in this game. it's a dice game, and if everything is viable enough to get rid of everything, then slap me hard and turn me sideways, I must be playing blood angels.

If you want to do an actual gunline marine list......Play spacewolves with 15 ML and 7 Razorbacks with Lascannons. Thats a gunline list.....this isnt.

2 Predators, a Land Raider, and 3 tactical squads in razorbacks with no weapons isnt a gunline.....its a really bad list with a very limited amount of firepower.

HQ
Libby with Null Zone/Avenger

Troops
Tactical Squad with Flamer/ML and Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer/ML and Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer/ML and Rhino

Elites
TH/SS Squad (5) with LR with MM/EA
Rifleman Dread
Rifleman Dread

Fast
Typhoon Squadron (2)
MM/HF Squadron (2)

Heavy
Predator with Lascannon Sponsons
Predator with Lascannon Sponsons

Heres a list of what I used to play as a semi gunline army. I used 3 bare bone tac squads because really I find them the most flexible loadout for point cost. Secondly I'm really not a fan of razorbacks unless you spam them, the reason being they become a higher priority for your opponnent and with only av 11 they die real easy. Where as if theyre rhinos they can hold a full squad which is huge in kill point games and people might forget about them untill it's 2 late. I also find librarians are almost always better than captains. They get to use those nifty powers like nullzone and avenger. Of course I never go anywhere withought my dreads. In this list I made them rifleman to fit my theme but I always miss my mm heavy flamer dreads probally the salamander player in me. Also in the elite spot I have anougher unit i never leave home without. A squad of th/ss termies inside of a land raider. I know you wanted a gunline but your going to need something for when the opponent breaks that line which they will sometimes. Theyre also good at killing things before they reach your line. Than in the fast attack corner i had 2 thypoon landspeeders and 2 mm heavy flamer sppeders to beak up monstrous creatures and tanks. Then the icing on the cake is the predators with autocannon lascannon loadout. Anything else on them and theyre a point sink. When they die if you load themout to much you'll regret not spending those points elsewhere making your lis more ballanced. I know this is not anything like your own list but I thought I'd give you an example of a more ballanced list and give you my thought process behind the choices. Have fun and remmember thats the name of the game having fun.

You could play a BA gun line thats always good times and fast vindies whats not to like 36 inch threat range YEAA!!! thats right bam.

Haha but really at 2k I have seen better gun lines.

The 15 ml are nasty most I ever crammed into a BA list is 12 (3 units of with 4 ml).

But if we are going with different army suggestions for BA

2 to 3 Baal preds
3 vindicators
5 or so razors (with assault marines in each) (las plas or assault cannons)
liby

I dont have a smurf codex handy so I cant write me up a list for them sorry but you need more punch.

Alright dude, chill. It was just a suggestion. Based on how your HS section looks I thought you really needed some help but if you're experienced enough to dismiss ML devs as "caught between two duties" then who am I to provide it.

Scipio Africanus wrote:
Why is everyone fond of missile launcher Devs? They're expensive and really not as great as everyone thinks. they're not 'flexible', they're caught between two duties. they are okay against horde, but not against heavy infantry MC or tanks. No, S8 Is not viable against AV12. you're penning on a 5+.

Devs are pretty cool and are flexible because they can deal with armour AND hordes. Armour 12 you're right armour but weight of fire power can do it but monstrous creatures are mostly 3+ armour save so missile launchers will blow chunks off them.

This suggestion of pods? tell me, how the feth is that a gunline if noones formed in a line, if no-ones anywhere near each other.

That is fething comical Drop Pods for a gunline, ho ho ho.

I loose all faith in this entire forum

You know what, so do I sometimes and it's important why you're selective on what feedback you listen to as some of it's plain bs and stupid i.e Drop Pods.

Now list wise..

Why power fist on the Captain? Not only loses a attack but strikes last - not good for a I.C!

Command Squad cool don't need standard bearer though, really. Razorback should be lascannon for gunline.

Tactical Squads don't need plasma pistol as completely waste of points plus why power sword when you cannot charge after rapid firing?

Chronus isn't worth the points especially when the lascannons and heavy bolter is twin-linked. Get a multi melta. Though what is the purpose of the Land Raider?

Preds are fine but hunter killers are junk.

Could be a better list. I've just wrote one for someone which is better than this and has a "whooping" 15 lascannons and 9 missile launchers shots, now that's a gunline!

I have seen a TFC with a Dp work before. The guy playing held it in reserves, then droped it on the other side of the field, from there it killed alot and did not get hit cause it was too far away.

If the Thunderfire dropped in to far away and didn't get a hit then it didn't work then did it?

You misunderstand, he means that the TFC dropped and was out of enemy range to be hit. It has what, 12-24 inches on most guns/missiles?

Scipio Africanus wrote:I loose all faith in this entire forum

Welcome to Dakka Dakka! From a competitive point of view 95% of the 'advice' you'll be given here is complete and utter gak, you've just got to get used to filtering the good from the bad.

I'm not a big fan of sugar coating things on this forum, if I think your list is bad then I'm going to tell you just that. Unfortunately trying to give advice here is sometimes like beating your head against a brick wall, despite your best intentions and explanations someone is still going to chime in saying "I think you should replace your Vindicators with Whirlwinds" and feth it all up without actually thinking about how the army operates or what the units purpose is.

Anyway, onto your list. It's horrible. It's a typical beginners list that spends too many points on upgrades and is trying to do too much at once, while failing at pretty much everything.

10 Lascannons at 2000 points, wow! With that sort of firepower you can take out a whole Chimera per turn! If only Imperial Guard couldn't take 12 of them plus all their other tanks at this points level you'd be sitting pretty. What I'm trying to say here is you're long range firepower is pathetic for a gunline.
You're trying to make a gunline but for some reason have decided to equip your tactical marines (who are well known for their CC prowess!) with power weapons?
Why are you taking a CC Captain with a useless command squad in a gunline list?
Why have you taken a Land Raider without putting something useful inside it? Better yet, why have you taken Chronus, when your weapons are already twin-linked and Extra Armour/POTMS do the same as Chronus anyway?
Why are you wasting points on the twin-linked lascannon upgrade on the Predators? You're paying 45 points for a single Lascannons shot, when you already have a perfectly good autocannon for taking on light armour, which is the only thing Lascannons should be firing at anyway.
Why are you spending all your points on useless upgrades when you could be taking more long range weapons?

Here's my advice to making this list a little more competitive:
Drop the Captain and Command Squad. They aren't adding anything to the gunline. Instead take a basic Librarian with Gate and Nullzone, for psychic defense and nullzone.
Drop one of your tactical squads, and downgrade them all to Meltagun/Missile Launcher/Rhino configuration. Add in combi-meltas if you have a few points spare.
Drop all the upgrades on your Predators except for the Lascannon sponsons.
Drop the Land Raider. It's a very, very expensive way to get 2 Lascannons into an army.

Add in:
2 x Riflemen Dreadnoughts.
3 x Land Speeders with Typhoon Missile Launchers.
1 x Devastator Squad with Missile Launcher.
1 x Sternguard for more melta and midfield army control.


This should leave you with something looking like this:

Librarian, Nullzone, Avenger – 100
Tactical Squad (10), Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Melta, Rhino – 220
Tactical Squad (10), Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Melta, Rhino – 220
Tactical Squad (10), Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Melta, Rhino – 220
Dreadnought, 2 x Twin-linked Autocannon – 125
Dreadnought, 2 x Twin-linked Autocannon – 125
Sternguard Squad (10), 4 x Combi-Melta, 2 x Combi-Flamer, Rhino – 315
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher – 90
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher – 90
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher – 90
Predator, Lascannon Sponsons – 120
Predator, Lascannon Sponsons – 120
Devastator Squad, 4 x Missile Launcher, Rhino – 185

The Sternguard combat-squad and take the Devs Rhino.
12 Vehicles, 46 MEQ bodies.
13 Krak Missiles, 4 Lascannons, 12 Autocannon shots.
5 Double-melta Rhino squads.

That's what a competitive list looks like. Your gunline list should have atleast this much firepower at 2000 points.

I'm not really a fan of plasma either way, but those plasma hordes are pretty... OTT. As for the Tactical Squads, choose: Are they for CC or for the gunline? As it's a gunline list, I'd say lose the plasma pistol and power weapon.

Also, the captain and command squad are useless in a gunline, unless you make them CC and in the Land Raider for counter-attacks (Relic blade, apothecary).

Lose Chronus and his Land Raider (unless you put something inside... either way, lose Chronus). And lose the twin-linked LC on the predators. Neither are worth it.

And then you may want some Devs in there...

Wait, wait, wait.

any of you think I'm running this list competitively?

I run a Vulkan list competitively.

No, I'm just looking for the chance to win casual games [i.e; non-meta game lists.]

Why do you bother posting then? Just run it...

Agreed. If you're not looking for feedback why bother posting it?

If you were trying to make a non-competitive, non-meta game (whatever that means) list, then well done, you've made it. Go forth and spread the good word!

Because, I was looking for feedback. I wasn't looking to be told it needs to be changed drastically

That is, in effect, feedback. Constructive criticism. Ever heard of it?