Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If a model with Eternal Warrior takes 2 wounds from a unit of Grey Knights, which then pass their psychic test to use them as Force Weapons, how many extra wounds would it take? Would it take 1 per model that wounded it, or would it just take 1 (for the 1 psychic test)?

I believe the answer is, one passed test makes all nemesis force weapons, force weapons... so the dude would take every wound.

Hope i'm right, I hate blazing away with answers to find im way off!

Ouch, how many units with Eternal Warrior could afford to take 4 wounds in 1 turn? A C'tan I suppose, maybe a couple Greater Daemons...

I think you're misunderstanding how the power works. You test to cause Instant Death, not "to become a force weapon."

Here's what happens:

The model suffers 2 unsaved wounds from a unit of grey knights with NFWs. If they pass their Psychic Test, all wounds they inflict with their NFWs inflict Instant Death. However, the target has Eternal Warrior, meaning that it is immune to Instant Death, making the psychic power pointless (it has no extra effect). Therefore the target will simply take the 2 unsaved wounds, regardless of whether the grey knights "activated" their force weapons or not.

Also, Ctan are not eternal warriors....

If the model has Eternal Warrior then the model will take 2 wounds. The extra benefits of the Force Weapon have no effect.

Well as stated, eternal warriors are not effected by ID. However If the IC has two wounds and has taken two wounds, he is now dead.

The BRB says that the psyker that wields the FW must make the psychic test. So each model wielding the FW must make a psychic test. Let me know if it is different for GK. But for example a GK model has caused three unsaved wounds, and the wounds have been allocated to three different models, only one model that has taken wounds can be selected for the ID. Not all three wounds and all three models.

merlin96 wrote:Well as stated, eternal warriors are not effected by ID. However If the IC has two wounds and has taken two wounds, he is now dead.

The BRB says that the psyker that wields the FW must make the psychic test. So each model wielding the FW must make a psychic test. Let me know if it is different for GK. But for example a GK model has caused three unsaved wounds, and the wounds have been allocated to three different models, only one model that has taken wounds can be selected for the ID. Not all three wounds and all three models.

I think this is innacurate... one psychic test is taken per unit for GK, not each model. therefore with a successful psychic test all models taking wounds will have ID, unless eternal warriors...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xca|iber wrote:I think you're misunderstanding how the power works. You test to cause Instant Death, not "to become a force weapon."

mmm, i see your point, but if the psychic test is failed then the weapons are simply power weapons...

Sry, I don't play as GK, but just read that on page 21 of their codex. Now I know that GK's FW work very differently. Well that does have some potential to make a big mess. I will definitely be taking wolf tail talismans with all my units now.

geordie09 wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:I think you're misunderstanding how the power works. You test to cause Instant Death, not "to become a force weapon."

mmm, i see your point, but if the psychic test is failed then the weapons are simply power weapons...

No. They are Force Weapons regardless of whether or not they inflict Instant Death. Force weapons are a separate class of Special Close Combat Weapon as defined in the BRB (pp 42, 50). However, they operate in exactly the same manner as power weapons if the psychic power is not used. This is an important distinction when facing things that are affected by "Force Weapons" specifically, such as Codex: Daemons units with Blessing of the Blood God.

Oh sorry, for some reason I thought that if you had Eternal Warrior and they used a Force Weapon on you then it would cause an extra wound for some reason...

How is Eternal Warrior related to Force weapons?

Am I missing something?

Force weapons, if "activated", cause Instant Death

Eternal Warrior ignores Instant Death

@ Zeus did you make an account to post that?

Eternal warrior and force weapons are related because if you have eternal warrior you wont get ID'd if somone passes their psychic test.

No Eternal Warrior doesn't say that it protects from ID.

And I'm shocked cause it seems everyone seems to think it does.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Force weapons, if "activated", cause Instant Death

Eternal Warrior ignores Instant Death

No please read Eternal Warrior p.74 BRB "The model is imune to the instant death rule"

and the Instant Death Rule is p. 26

I think the Eternal Warrior rule protects from the activation of Force Weapons which cause Instant Death.
But not from the Daemonbane rule of the GK Nemesis weapons, which doesn't point that this is ID and only says : "If the test is failed, the model is removed as casualty".

No Eternal Warrior doesn't protect you from ID

It says "this model is immune from the INSTANT DEATH RULE" not ID

As stated above the INSTANT DEATH RULE is clearly defined on p.26 BRB

And I suppose your point is : when a weapon cause Instant Death, it is not the Instant Death rule which is used, so there is no protection against it ?

Zeus wrote:No Eternal Warrior doesn't protect you from ID

It says "this model is immune from the INSTANT DEATH RULE" not ID

As stated above the INSTANT DEATH RULE is clearly defined on p.26 BRB

Isn't immunity a form of protection

Zeus wrote:No Eternal Warrior doesn't protect you from ID

It says "this model is immune from the INSTANT DEATH RULE" not ID

As stated above the INSTANT DEATH RULE is clearly defined on p.26 BRB

So, when FW tell you they cause ID, and you look on page 26 to find out what ID does....you find out that EW is immune to the effects of Instant Death.

Soryr, you are 110% wrong on this.

Zeus wrote:No Eternal Warrior doesn't say that it protects from ID.

And I'm shocked cause it seems everyone seems to think it does.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Force weapons, if "activated", cause Instant Death

Eternal Warrior ignores Instant Death

No please read Eternal Warrior p.74 BRB "The model is imune to the instant death rule"

and the Instant Death Rule is p. 26

I'm not clear what you're getting at. Eternal Warrior specifically protects against Instant Death, but not against 'model is removed' type rules.

It doesnt matter - Zeus is wrong if he reckons that instant death ignores eternal warrior.

It's probably some variant of the flawed "but the ID rule only talks about double toughness" argument. Hard to tell, no argument has been presented so far, just an (incorrect, and provably so) assertion and a link to where the rules can be found that prove the assertion to be incorrect.

Please read

Eternal Warrior says ..... Exactly " this model is immune to the instant death rule"

AND the instant death rule is on p.26

So Eternal warrior prevents the instant death rule from taking affect.

Whats killing me is I have never met anyone who didn't know what Eternal Warrior does, and i've played in Michigan,Ohio, North Carolina, and Alabama.
So i'm just blown away that people on here don't seem to realize that Eternal Warrior simply prevents you from getting gibbed by a weapon that is ST of double your toughness.

Please Read Eternal Warrior p.74 and then refer to P.26 for clarification

Sorry i'm new here and am NOT trying to rock the boat so to speak but...........


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:It doesnt matter - Zeus is wrong if he reckons that instant death ignores eternal warrior.

It's probably some variant of the flawed "but the ID rule only talks about double toughness" argument. Hard to tell, no argument has been presented so far, just an (incorrect, and provably so) assertion and a link to where the rules can be found that prove the assertion to be incorrect.

LOL ok then. sorry guys
Apparently reading the rulebook doesnt work for you.

Sorry to bother you guys please go back to making up your own rules.


LOL understand there is alot of holes in 40k rules but i never met anyone who thought this was one of them.

But certain weapons, Force Weapons included, also cause Instant Death. Considering the lack of a second rule also called Instant Death, that means that Eternal Warrior ignores the effects of Instant Death however it is caused.

Miraclefish wrote:But certain weapons, Force Weapons included, also cause Instant Death. Considering the lack of a second rule also called Instant Death, that means that Eternal Warrior ignores the effects of Instant Death however it is caused.

Hey man I agree in principle.
But I have just never met anyone who thought Eternal Warrior did any thing exept protect you from getting killed by a weapon that is double your strenth.
thats all I can Say.

Sorry really

So what rule do all those people use to figure out what instant death caused by force weapons, bone swords or wraith cannons does?

Zeus wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:But certain weapons, Force Weapons included, also cause Instant Death. Considering the lack of a second rule also called Instant Death, that means that Eternal Warrior ignores the effects of Instant Death however it is caused.

Hey man I agree in principle.
But I have just never met anyone who thought Eternal Warrior did any thing exept protect you from getting killed by a weapon that is double your strenth.
thats all I can Say.

Sorry really

All I know is that the rule Eternal Warrior protects against Instant Death. Instant Death is caused by i) wounds where Strength is 2x Toughness and ii) special weapons causing Instant Death. I don't see how you can argue this any other way...

Zeus wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:But certain weapons, Force Weapons included, also cause Instant Death. Considering the lack of a second rule also called Instant Death, that means that Eternal Warrior ignores the effects of Instant Death however it is caused.

Hey man I agree in principle.
But I have just never met anyone who thought Eternal Warrior did any thing exept protect you from getting killed by a weapon that is double your strenth.
thats all I can Say.

Sorry really

So, what does the ID effect on a force weapon do?
bearing in mind you have just said that the rule called Instant Death on page 26 does not apply (otherwise EW would negate it - and your claim is it does not apply) you now have to find a rule, called Instant Death (and that is NOT on page 26), and apply its efects.

Oh wait! there isnt another rule! That means that when it says you are immune to the instant death rule, it means tht you cannot ever lose all your wounds due to instant death! Who'd have thought!

You're wrong, have been proven so and should now, perhaps, have the humility to acknowledge this...

Zeus wrote:No Eternal Warrior doesn't protect you from ID

It says "this model is immune from the INSTANT DEATH RULE" not ID

As stated above the INSTANT DEATH RULE is clearly defined on p.26 BRB

Whatever you say chief, whatever you say. Although i should mention if you try this arguement with a Daemons player, you may lose some teeth. It might be worth it to read up on force weapons so that so can see an example of a instance when ID is caused by something besides x2S hits. Force weapons, C'tan, Skulltaker, GK assassin(the one with the c'tan blade) all cause Instant Death to models wounded by them. Ahem, Instant Death. If you look up what ID does....oh snap it removes them. The BRB only touches upon force weapons and x2S hits because those are universal rules that will be found in many armies. Codex trump rule book and ID is ID regardless of the cause.

EW speciffically states that it protects from instant death. Not that it only protect form one instance in which ID is possible. Seriously, how can you argue that guys like C'tan do not cause ID when it speciffically states they cause ID?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hate so have my first post on a rules argument, sorry.

Jidmah wrote:So what rule do all those people use to figure out what instant death caused by force weapons, bone swords or wraith cannons does?

Read 'Force Weapons' on p.50
'This power has no effect on vehicles, models that are immune to instant death and any other model that does not have a Wounds value.'

Therefore, force weapons do not affect Eternal Warriors, which are 'immune to the Instant Death rule.' (p.74) And just because it doesn't say the word 'rule' after 'instant death' in the force weapon entry, does not mean it is not referring you to it, as it specifies the rule is called 'instant death,' such as 'use the lowest value for working out instant death.' (p.26).