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If I'm using a blob unit of 50 guardsmen, plus commissars with power weapons in each, under the combined squad rules, would taking special weapons-ie flamers- be advantageous, or would it just leaving all the basic guardsmen with lasguns be better-so as to take advantage of the "First rank fire, second rank fire...rule"?

...I've gotten a little fed up with going up against bloody horde armies with my Sisters lately you see...

...And no. I'm not the most serious of gamers if you couldn't tell already-fight fire with fire, and hordes with hordes and all.

Are you giving the individual squads a heavy weapon?

Personally, it seems wasteful to not put SOMETHING in any available special weapon slot. Don't overrate lasguns, even with FRFSRF. 3-shot each rapid firing is neat and all... but it's still S3 shooting.

Grenadelaunchers are rather good to use, decent to hurt transports with and do ok in CC while still being somewhat cost effective.

Absolutely you should put special weapons in. As Ivan says, 3 shots with a lasgun is fine, but there are many many things in the game it's just useless against. I suggest meltaguns, they are nearly as good as plasma against heavy infantry (S8 inflicts instant death on many things), they are the game's best tank killer, they are assault weapons, they protect you against tank shocks etc.

Don't feel you have to take heavy weapons teams though. Think about what you want the blob to do, will it spend more than 1 turn stationary and shooting, etc. Unless you intend to stay still and fire heavy weapons for most of each game, don't bother. The cost of the squad is starting to add up, if they've got the commissar, the power weapons, and the specials, send them out to fight.

I dunno, I have a hard time justifying ever eliminating the heavy weapons teams entirely.

Even if the blob is primarily intended for maneuver/assault, autocannons are dirt cheap. It's a relatively small investment in points that increases the flexibility of the blob dramatically. Pure assault with no heavy weapons, there are going to be turns when it's a big pile of points doing no damage to the enemy. 4-5 autocannons in there, you're seldom going to have a turn when you cant lay some damage on SOMETHING.

Also, keep in mind that having 60mm heavy weapon bases thrown forward in your blob can dramatically increase the number of guys in your blob who get to swing. Seriously, throw some models down on the table and run through a few scenarios. The surface area of eligible swingers on a 60mm base vs a 25mm base can be hugely different. One might could argue that "cheapest way to get 60mm bases into an assault blob" is the only reason ever to run Mortars in 5th.

I would run 3 Meltaguns and call it good. The blob will eat anything else in CC except Dreadnoughts, which the Meltaguns will eliminate.

And about HWT bases for better assault range: don't do it. Please. It's really silly. Just don't take Heavy Weapons at all in blobs, unless your running Straken; in that case, you can afford to get charged.

I like meltaguns for armor insurance or if theres less points left, some flamers for good ol template action. The problem with heavy weapons is that really theres probably something in your list you could put those points towards instead.

Yeah, I've also become partial to meltaguns in power blobs. They're not necessary, but they're definitely handy. Remember, they're not there JUST to be insurance against dreadnoughts, they also give you a helpful boost against things like monstrous creatures that can be sort of a pain to take down with only S3 power weapons. Plus, picking off the terminator carrying a storm shield before you charge in doesn't hurt either. Basically, they're the yin to the power blob's otherwise massive yang, so to speak.

Other than that, I could see taking plasma guns and focusing on shooting, rather than close combat (don't know if I'd even take power weapons in a plasma blob), but that's about it. I don't need grenade launchers pattering helplessly off of whatever they're shooting at, or flamers killing me out of assault range.

As for heavy weapons, I can see an incredibly narrow range of times that you'd want to include them in a power blob, but said circumstances are so few, I won't even bother to mention them.

C'mon ros. Indulge us.

I use flamers in my PCS - 4 of them can make people question whether they want to close you down and they always get a cover save from the main blob.

On special weapons I take either grenades or melta. If the unit is likely to get tarpitted by a walker then grenades rather than meltas are a better points spend. Give them krak grenades and with enough attacks they should be able to cause some damage to the dread. Melta bomb is pricey for just the 1 attack.

Seeing as the blob's only going to get its 3 shots each with Lasguns at 12' anyhow, including melta guns might not be a bad idea, but in a similar vain Plasma guns offer equal punch, and are rapid fire. The blob'll probably be moving around a lot so heavy weapons probably aren't too viable-if I were running the guard squads seperate from one another then of course I'd take a few in those-, but I'm guessing having a Leman Russ and two Exorcists can make up for this loss.

murdog wrote:C'mon ros. Indulge us.

Fine.

So, heavy weapons in a power blob would only make sense in situations where your opponent is on the board, and you can't get into close combat/melta range. As you can already see, this is going to be pretty rare.

For example, let's say that you're fighting against an all-skimmer dark eldar army. The ~12" movement of your power blobs is facing off against the up to 24" movement of DE raiders. If your opponent doesn't want you in close combat, you're not getting into close combat. In fact, with that kind of movement discrepancy, you're going to be hard pressed to even get meltaguns in range (and once they are, nightshields will undoubtedly keep you out of melta range, and with flickerfields...). In this case, what's the point of close combat weapons and meltaguns if your opponent can ensure that you never get to use them? What's the point of movement if you can never get close enough to engage properly? In this particular circumstance, I'd advocate heavy weapons in power blobs so that you can crack open (or at least immobilizing) a couple of skimmers and then actually stand a reasonable chance of catching whatever was inside. Yes, you could take HWSs or vehicles, but DE is packed to the gills with darklight weaponry and other at-range nasties.

Likewise, all-air-cav guard can dance just out of range of the blobs while having enough lascannons to make HWSs or vehicles seem like a poor choice. Also, if you play against eldar that take the most possible number of scatter lasers and dire avengers in serpents.

I'm sure I could probably think of one or two more, but unless you're facing off against those specific hard counter builds, I wouldn't bother with heavy weapons.

Go with 30 man blobs. 50 is ungainly, clumsy, and too many men unless it's a genestealer mob of like 20 against it.

Here's how to do it for each blob.
3 sgt's w/- power weapon, plasma pistol, meltabombs
3 troopers with meltaguns
1-3 commies with plasma pistol, and power weapon.

You'll have tons of power weapon killing in melee, you'll be able to pop any vehicle, the plasma pistols are guaranteed to kill infantry and termies, possible light tanks, and all your weaponry supports itself.

Here's the kicker. Add Straken with a chimera, add 4 meltaguns in his squad, and use them to pop transports. then, allow your blobs to kill the creamy filling with his orders. Then charge, and if you're in his bubble, you'll get furious charge, or counter attack. with that much strength in any one guard platoon, any marine player will hate you.

Plasma pistols also melt the face of the very thing that makes the blobs effective- power weapons and commisars. Losing even 1 pweapon decreases your effectiveness dramatically. And given the cost increase, it hardly is worth it.

Ivan wrote:I dunno, I have a hard time justifying ever eliminating the heavy weapons teams entirely.

Even if the blob is primarily intended for maneuver/assault, autocannons are dirt cheap. It's a relatively small investment in points that increases the flexibility of the blob dramatically. Pure assault with no heavy weapons, there are going to be turns when it's a big pile of points doing no damage to the enemy. 4-5 autocannons in there, you're seldom going to have a turn when you cant lay some damage on SOMETHING.

I'm a fan of autocannons, but a blob's purpose is more than just to do damage to the enemy. They are a distraction and a tarpit, a bubble wrap for your artillery and other big guns that do the real killing. Sure, they are capable of killing stuff along the way, but that's bonus. If you have no immediate targets to attack, you should be running to put pressure on the enemy or going to ground with Incoming! for a 2+ cover save.


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jmurph wrote:Plasma pistols also melt the face of the very thing that makes the blobs effective- power weapons and commisars. Losing even 1 pweapon decreases your effectiveness dramatically. And given the cost increase, it hardly is worth it.

Agreed with this. Plasma pistols are a horrendous choice. Expensive and punitive.

I sometimes run a plasma pistol on a Commissar because I love the model of the guy running forward with the plasma pistol. I basically pay 10 points for the privilege of looking cool, because there's no way in hell I'm risking losing him to an overheat. I'd never fire it without the help of the BiD! order.

Long story short: Plasma and Power weapons do not mix on 1 wound, 5+ save models.

Biophysical wrote:I sometimes run a plasma pistol on a Commissar because I love the model of the guy running forward with the plasma pistol. I basically pay 10 points for the privilege of looking cool, because there's no way in hell I'm risking losing him to an overheat. I'd never fire it without the help of the BiD! order.

Long story short: Plasma and Power weapons do not mix on 1 wound, 5+ save models.

Dude, chop his hand off, the command squad box is full of plastic bolt pistols. For the love of god, he'll thank you!

I know, but the plasma pistol is one of the things I like about him (aesthetically). I have other models with bolt pistols, I just like to keep that one around for style.