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Does anyone think it would be possble for a heresy chapter to have a emperor loyal group that splintered from the main body of the traitor legions during the heresy, and that they might of hid out of shame and resurfaced as a new chapter when the time suited them or was lost in the warp before the heresy only to reappear millenia later long after the fight was over and adopt a new heraldry after making contact with the new imperium and allow those lost marines to swear allegiance to the emperor and fight on in his name or in another case act incognito as a new chapter for fear of persecution after discovering what had transpired without making offical imperial contact such as poping out on a back water world. It would seem like the administatium of the imperium is so large that a 1000 man chapter may be able to slip between the cracks and avoid major imperial athorites if they pick and choose their missions and targets wisley.

If im not mistaken some of the companies of the traitor legions stayed loyal to the emperor.

Flight of the Einstein is about a loyalist company.

i think most of the marines that would have been loyal to the emperor were killed during the massacres on Istaavan V

Yes but loyalist that escaped were in some cases absorbed by other chapters maybe they could have gathered in those chapters and split later on but that would make little sense. Also not all the traitor legions were present at Istaavan V. So in some cases maybe loyalist groups could have survived in chapter purges and fled?

No. Its not really possible.
The traitor primarchs had enough sense to be accountable for making sure that any large body of loyal marines in their legions would have been purged. Yes, a squad sized element COULD MAYBE have survived on Bumfudge IV or some other backwater post, but that isnt enough to start a chapter.
Besides, the imperium might start asking questions when a random chapter just shows up on the galactic scene.

this is what was rumored to have happened to the Cursed Founding chapters.


everyone of the chapters has suffered grevious misfortune, turned traitor, has suffered horrendous mutations, or all 3.

the Genestock used for this founding wasn't recorded, possably deleted.


all the stocks of the Traitor legion geneseed is kept under stasis field in the vaults on Terra. why is beyond anyones guess.

I was thinking of writing some fluff about the night lords since their genestock was the purist of the traitors. I want it to sound as belivable as possible and not too far fetched.

That could work, although the Thousand Sons are actually the more likely to have loyal chapters.


the Thousand Sons were the one legion that didn't willingly become traitors(and Magnus is still rumored to be loyal to the Emperor, just as his father. Tzeench is his God)


the Blood Ravens are suspected to be of Thousand Son descent. likely a portion of the Thousand Sons who weren't on Prospero when the Space Wolves attacked, and weren't effected by the curse.


they went into hiding and, after the legions were broken up, just kinda showed up one day. saying "Hi, were the Blood Ravens. we kinda forgot when we were founde-O look! Heretics "

Did the Night Lords even participate in Isstvan III? I know they were at the drop site massacre on Isstvan IV, but weren't the ones at Isstvan III deathguard, sons of horus, emporer's children, and world eaters?

I think so.


The Nightlords were Horus's reserve guard. waiting for the assault on Terra.

Yeah, they were sent in the second wave to relieve the loyalists.


So it would be totally plausible for some loyalist night lords!

Plausible.....

Also the night lords are not truly aligned to chaos they do not belive in any of the patron gods and see all forms of religon as a weakness to be exploited in their campains of terror.

Malivon wrote:Also the night lords are not truly aligned to chaos they do not belive in any of the patron gods and see all forms of religon as a weakness to be exploited in their campains of terror.

Very true, although many of their number have slipped and worshipped some of the gods (see soul hunter and the rest of the series). Perhaps you can use this in your fluff?

I was thinking about writing it somewhat like the darkangels situation, but a with a few twists like the chapter was commisoned from night lord gene stock so that they could hunt and fight the night lords using their own abilitys and maybe some of their own tactics against them. Also the chapter would not know that they were of nightlord decent. A fact that they would come to learn as they contiune to battle their dark kin over time. Eventualy they would come to a moral crossroad on wether or not to join them as brothers or fight on in the Emperors name as proof that even the damned can be redeemed.

Good ideas, but I don't think Night Lord tactics can be used against Night Lords....

Plus I highly recommend reading the Night Lords series, gives a lot of insight into chapter, and it's estranged companies. It's even got all that moral crossroads thing too! I think it'll be very helpful in your chapter's fluff!

Thx I will check it out.

The trouble you'll run into is that a founding can only be ordered by the High Lords of Terra, and they're understandably suspicious of the Traitor Primarchs' geneseed. They have it in stock, of course, but why risk using it when they have perfectly good Guilliman marine-juice in that bucket over there?

That said, it could still theoretically be done. If you're writing fluff, I'd throw in plenty about the Mechanicus or whoever sending the geneseed through plenty of cleany whirlygigs and scrubber whatzits in an effort to 'purify' it - and, as with all tinkering with geneseed, make sure it gets worse rather than better as a result.

a better way of founding a loyal chapter from Traitor stock is to have them be a splinter from the original traitors.


a Company or 2 remains loyal, but naturally know they will be suspected of being Traitors.

they then lay low untill after the 2nd founding and show up with a new color scheme and a new name.


Imperial Administrative inefficiency is then blamed for the lack of records.

Yeah I was ganna write it like a what better way to catch a criminal that to hire a criminal sort of deal. As for the geneseed purification I was ganna give them a weakness like not being able to endure solar radiation for very long amount of time due to the complexion of their primarch's skin or that they may not be able to see well under bright conditions causing them to favor night fights or boarding actions ect any place that might provide protection from light. Kinda like "your are a damned chapter that can never walk in the Emperors light and are striving to seek redemption by slaying his enemys in the dark."

meh, something better for a flaw.


perhaps their occulobe has mutated so that they have superior night vision, but reduced daytime effectivness.

I wonder if you could throw in some bad nightmare stuff that stems from their precongnition trait they had. Maybe always being hounded by dreams of their deaths or something like that.

DEUS VULT wrote:
Besides, the imperium might start asking questions when a random chapter just shows up on the galactic scene.

More than one chapter has shown up inexplicably from no originator.

the Imperium not only has things fall through the cracks, they expect it.


No one would question a random marine chapter showing up with no history. many chapters can't recollect their founding.