Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all.

If you look under a standard Talos Pain Engine with no upgrades, you will see that he has a single CCW. As one of the options, it says "replace CCW for one of the following options" and it lists the options. If you take one of those (let's say, the TL Liquifier Gun for this example), he no longer has a CCW. Does he still get to attack in close combat if he doesn't even have a CCW?

Let's say I take the TL Liquifier Gun. There is another option that lets you take an additional CCW. What is the point of that? It doesn't do anything since my other CCW was replaced by the TL Liquifer Gun. In Army Builder, if you take the additional CCW and take the TL Liquifier Gun, it still grants you the +1 A for having two CCW even though one of them was replaced. Is there a rule I am missing or is Army Builder just wrong? Or, perhaps, GW's intent was that you aren't supposed to replace a CCW AT ALL when taking a TL Liquifier Gun so that you could take the addtional CCW and get the bonus attack.

Interested to hear your opinions.

if you read the rule in the codex it says "Replace ONE of the close combat weapons" indicating he started with 2 claws, though they have special attacks this does not benefit him in any way, so if you replace that ONE combat weapon with a gun, youll stillg et the normal D6 attacks, if you upgrade to take an "additional" CCW then yes you get D6+1 because efectivly you have 3 arms at that point

and if you dont have a ccw, you can still fight in cc. just without extra attacks or special rules like power weapons etc. i think its assumed at that point your throwing rocks, using the butt of a rifle or some other handy blunt or pointy object.

thelordoflife wrote:if you read the rule in the codex it says "Replace ONE of the close combat weapons" indicating he started with 2 claws, though they have special attacks this does not benefit him in any way, so if you replace that ONE combat weapon with a gun, youll stillg et the normal D6 attacks, if you upgrade to take an "additional" CCW then yes you get D6+1 because efectivly you have 3 arms at that point

It only starts with one Close combat weapon. But you can add an additional CCW for x points. The Liquifer gun is worded they way it is so you can not get 2 guns on the Talos.

If you do not replace the CCW with the liquifer gun and you buy an extra CCW then you get d6+1 attacks, if you replace the CCW with a liquifer gun and you do not purchase another CCW then you get d6 attacks. Nothing in the rules says a model must have a close combat weapon. It only mentions that if you have 2 then you get +1 attack.

jbunny wrote:

thelordoflife wrote:if you read the rule in the codex it says "Replace ONE of the close combat weapons" indicating he started with 2 claws, though they have special attacks this does not benefit him in any way, so if you replace that ONE combat weapon with a gun, youll stillg et the normal D6 attacks, if you upgrade to take an "additional" CCW then yes you get D6+1 because efectivly you have 3 arms at that point

It only starts with one Close combat weapon. But you can add an additional CCW for x points. The Liquifer gun is worded they way it is so you can not get 2 guns on the Talos.

If you do not replace the CCW with the liquifer gun and you buy an extra CCW then you get d6+1 attacks, if you replace the CCW with a liquifer gun and you do not purchase another CCW then you get d6 attacks. Nothing in the rules says a model must have a close combat weapon. It only mentions that if you have 2 then you get +1 attack.

You mean chain flails?

HUH?

Ahh whoops my bad. Chain flails lets you reroll the D6 attacks. I thought it granted the D6 attacks

jbunny wrote:

thelordoflife wrote:if you read the rule in the codex it says "Replace ONE of the close combat weapons" indicating he started with 2 claws, though they have special attacks this does not benefit him in any way, so if you replace that ONE combat weapon with a gun, youll stillg et the normal D6 attacks, if you upgrade to take an "additional" CCW then yes you get D6+1 because efectivly you have 3 arms at that point

It only starts with one Close combat weapon. But you can add an additional CCW for x points. The Liquifer gun is worded they way it is so you can not get 2 guns on the Talos.

If you do not replace the CCW with the liquifer gun and you buy an extra CCW then you get d6+1 attacks, if you replace the CCW with a liquifer gun and you do not purchase another CCW then you get d6 attacks. Nothing in the rules says a model must have a close combat weapon. It only mentions that if you have 2 then you get +1 attack.

Let's say you replace the CCW with the TL Liquifier Gun and you also purchase the additional CCW. What is his attacks like? At this point, he should only have a single CCW so he only gets d6 attacks, right?

Yes, he only has a single CCW

Kurce wrote:

jbunny wrote:

thelordoflife wrote:if you read the rule in the codex it says "Replace ONE of the close combat weapons" indicating he started with 2 claws, though they have special attacks this does not benefit him in any way, so if you replace that ONE combat weapon with a gun, youll stillg et the normal D6 attacks, if you upgrade to take an "additional" CCW then yes you get D6+1 because efectivly you have 3 arms at that point

I am not sure if he does indeed have 2 CCW starting off. Nothing says he does.

It only starts with one Close combat weapon. But you can add an additional CCW for x points. The Liquifer gun is worded they way it is so you can not get 2 guns on the Talos.

If you do not replace the CCW with the liquifer gun and you buy an extra CCW then you get d6+1 attacks, if you replace the CCW with a liquifer gun and you do not purchase another CCW then you get d6 attacks. Nothing in the rules says a model must have a close combat weapon. It only mentions that if you have 2 then you get +1 attack.

So if you take any gun, buying the additional CCW does nothing (1 CCW, buying gun replaces CCW, buying additonal CCW still leaves him with 1 CCW or still d6 attacks).

Let's say you replace the CCW with the TL Liquifier Gun and you also purchase the additional CCW. What is his attacks like? At this point, he should only have a single CCW so he only gets d6 attacks, right?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, he only has a single CCW

As above, why buy the additional CCW for 15 points if you could just not take it and still have the gun and d6 attacks?

Unless I am missing what you guys are explaining, it seems like to me there is never a point of taking the Additional CCW unless you do not buy the gun.

I agree with Nos. 0-1 CCW gets the number of attacks on his profile. 2+ CCW and he gets +1 attacks added to the number on his profile.

Kenshin: No Problem.

Zykios - theres no need to buy gun plus ccw, it has no ingame effect

nosferatu1001 wrote:Zykios - theres no need to buy gun plus ccw, it has no ingame effect

So, the only time you should ever pay for the additional CCW is if you do not buy anything that replaces the other CCW (like the TL Liquifier Gun), right? Because if you do, you are buying an additional CCW for no reason. So, in essence, Army Builder is wrong. Because, no matter what you have taken, if you pay the 15 points for the additional CCW, it gives you D6 + 1 attacks even though you bought the TL Liquifier Gun and you only have a single CCW.

Sounds like a bug - add it to the ab40k forum

nosferatu1001 wrote:Zykios - theres no need to buy gun plus ccw, it has no ingame effect

You do need to do that if you want the gun and the Ichior Injector, as they both replace a CCW.

I am still unsure about this, I think it needs to be FAQ'ed because of how the buying of the additional CCW is in it's own section, as if your suppose to be gaining an additional attack, no matter what else you buy that replaces stuff or whatnot.

It comes with 1 CCW. It says you may purchase an additional CCW for x points. This will give you an additional attack, unless you replace one of the CCW for a gun, causing you to only have 1 CCW. 1CCW never gives you a bonus attack.

Zyllos wrote:I am still unsure about this, I think it needs to be FAQ'ed because of how the buying of the additional CCW is in it's own section, as if your suppose to be gaining an additional attack, no matter what else you buy that replaces stuff or whatnot.

No need for a FAQ. If you choose to pay for something you get for free anyway, thats your prerogative.

Zyllos wrote:I am still unsure about this, I think it needs to be FAQ'ed because of how the buying of the additional CCW is in it's own section, as if your suppose to be gaining an additional attack, no matter what else you buy that replaces stuff or whatnot.

It's in its own section because it is something that you take, rather than something that replaces something else. It needs to be separare because it has a different condition on taking it.

You start with a single CCW. You can take an additional CCW. You can choose to replace one or both of those CCWs with any of the 3 options from the set of items at the top of the options list.

If, at the end of all of that, you have 1 or 0 CCWs, you can still fight in close combat but do not gain the +1 for having two CCWs... because you don't have two CCWs.

It's in its own section because it is something that you take, rather than something that replaces something else. It needs to be separare because it has a different condition on taking it.

You start with a single CCW. You can take an additional CCW. You can choose to replace one or both of those CCWs with any of the 3 options from the set of items at the top of the options list.

If, at the end of all of that, you have 1 or 0 CCWs, you can still fight in close combat but do not gain the +1 for having two CCWs... because you don't have two CCWs.

So, if I am to understand correctly, a Talos Pain Engine may have 2 twin-linked Liquifiers for the point cost of an additional CCW, and 2 TW-Liquifiers? That sounds amazing.

Nope. You can only replace one of the CCW's, regardless of how many you take. That's something that I overlooked in this thread, but was pointed out in the Talso thread that came after this one...

Meanwhile, this thread is from the start of June. Locking for Threadnomancy.