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okay if in a FUN game all my troop slots are filled up, could i still feaild summoned daemons, since im a CSM player, and could i feild an endless amount daemons since it says normally it does not use up any slots on the force organizaion chart, otherwise treated as a regualr troop choice

AFAIK Yes. Feasibly if you had an infinate points game you could take an infinate amount of Daemons.

As long as you fill the two mandatory slots, yes you can.

Yes you can take as many units of lesser summoned demons as you want to pay for. There is no limit.

What difference do you see from it being a 'fun' game? Whether it's a casual pick-up game or a tournament game, the rules for building your army are the same unless you and your opponent decide to change them.

I thought Summoned Deamons didnt take up any slots. they are just troops that don't take up any.

revackey wrote:As long as you fill the two mandatory slots, yes you can.

and you can fill those with 2 units of summoned daemons, since you are required to make two compulsory selections from the troops category, and lesser daemons are treated as a troops unit.

EDIT: As per Page 89 this is not possible because there is a specific restriction on summoned daemons being used for this purpose.

And hey, why not pile in as many Greater Ds too? You could go nuts with the Ds in a CSM army.

I believe GD's are 0-1 in CSM codex.

Not on hand, but I am fairly sure.

Yes, GD's are 0-1.

Hmm, I played CSM for 3 years and didnt think to use Lesser Deamons as my compulsory troop choice.

DeathReaper wrote:

revackey wrote:As long as you fill the two mandatory slots, yes you can.

and you can fill those with 2 units of summoned daemons, since you are required to make two compulsory selections from the troops category, and lesser daemons are treated as a troops unit.

Except that the Codex:CSM specifically states that the summoned daemons cannot be your mandatory Troops or HQ. They are 'in addition to' your min/max slots or some such phrasing. So while you can normally fill mandatory slots (IMO) with units that do not take a slot, you cannot do so with summoned daemons.

Wait, does this mean that I can purchase a drop pod for my tac squad and this will count as my two compulsory Troops choices? Or is it a bit different?

Remember that dedicated transports count as the unit type they were bought for when a distinction is called.

No, the drop pod is a dedicated transport and is in the same Force Org 'slot' as the unit it is bought for. So it only counts as one. Kinda like buying a GK henchmen squad as Troops (assuming they do not take up a slot) and giving them a transport. Even tho they don't take a slot, the two combined (unit and transport) would still be a single 'slot' on the I-don't-take-slots chart and only count as one Troops choice.

So how can you fill mandatory slots with units that don't take them up? Not knowing other codices that well, would an SM example be using an Honour Guard Squad to take up an HQ slot if you want it to? I know you wouldn't usually want to do this but say for example a custom FOC for a custom mission.

You can do it by following the rules. If it were possible to take an Honour Guard unit without first taking an HQ unit, sure, it would work. Read the main rulebook. All it says is that you must select this many units (1 HQ, 2 Troops) from the appropriate portion of your list. Nowhere is there a requirement for a unit to fill a slot on the force org chart. This is reinforced by GWs answer to the Emp Chump question in the BT codex that allows the Chump to be your only HQ, as even tho he does not take up a slot he is still an HQ unit.
Using the IG codex as an example. The Techpriest Enginseer is an HQ unit that does not take up a slot. I take an Enginseer as part of my army. So, have I selected an HQ unit from my army list (codex)? Yes. Are there any rules in the IG codex (similar to the CSM rules) that prevent the Enginseer from filling a mandatory choice? Nope.

A good example, (and the precedent for this) is the Black Templar Emperor's Champion.
He does not take up a HQ slot, but can be used as a compulsory HQ choice.

I'm not sure the Champ is a good example - he not only doesn't take up a slot, he's mandatory. It could be a house reward for having to take him in the first place.

don_mondo wrote:You can do it by following the rules. If it were possible to take an Honour Guard unit without first taking an HQ unit, sure, it would work. Read the main rulebook. All it says is that you must select this many units (1 HQ, 2 Troops) from the appropriate portion of your list. Nowhere is there a requirement for a unit to fill a slot on the force org chart. This is reinforced by GWs answer to the Emp Chump question in the BT codex that allows the Chump to be your only HQ, as even tho he does not take up a slot he is still an HQ unit.
Using the IG codex as an example. The Techpriest Enginseer is an HQ unit that does not take up a slot. I take an Enginseer as part of my army. So, have I selected an HQ unit from my army list (codex)? Yes. Are there any rules in the IG codex (similar to the CSM rules) that prevent the Enginseer from filling a mandatory choice? Nope.

Okay, sorted. I am aware that you have to take a Chapter master before taking an Honour Guard.

But, in relation to my previous question, it wouldn't work for any DTs, but EVERY other "non-fo-slot" unit can do this? (unless specifically forbidden by the codex, of course)

Pretty much.

So if it were mandatory to take an Elites choice, a SM Techmarine could fulfill the choice

don_mondo wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

revackey wrote:As long as you fill the two mandatory slots, yes you can.

and you can fill those with 2 units of summoned daemons, since you are required to make two compulsory selections from the troops category, and lesser daemons are treated as a troops unit.

Except that the Codex:CSM specifically states that the summoned daemons cannot be your mandatory Troops or HQ. They are 'in addition to' your min/max slots or some such phrasing. So while you can normally fill mandatory slots (IMO) with units that do not take a slot, you cannot do so with summoned daemons.

I am not seeing that reference. For clarification what page is it on?

Page 89, in the Summoned Daemons paragraph. "They exist outside of the force organization chart and are chosen in addition to your normal minimums and maximums"

Thank you, I saw the entry for Daemons and the unit pages, missed the bit on page 89 (Mostly because I had no reason to look there)