Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Report from game with John from Friday night. He's beat me twice in a row which kind of annoys me, lol, especially when it was against my beloved Blood Angels. Can the hammer of the Emperor score a upset against his xeno scum?

Imperial Guard "Steel Lions" - 2,000 points


HQ

Company Command Squad - w/ Chimera 4 x plasma guns
Company Command Squad - w/ Chimera 4 x plasma guns

Troops

Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x plasma guns

Fast Attack

Vendetta
Vendetta
Hellhound

Heavy Support

Manticore - heavy flamer
Manticore - heavy flamer
Manticore - heavy flamer

Total: 2,005


Eldar "Wave - Walker" - 2,000 points

HQ

Farseer - guide
Farseer - guide

Elites

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon


Troops

6 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon
6 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon

6 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers & shuriken cannon


Heavy Support

3 x War Walkers - 2 x eldar missile launchers each
3 x War Walkers - 2 x eldar missile launchers each
3 x War Walkers - 2 x eldar missile launchers each

Game: Spearhead + Capture and Control

Deployment

John won the roll off and decided to go first in the top right corner, he placed his objective at the edge of his quarter towards me. I put my objective bottom right far left corner, he he he.

John deployed putting a unit of War Walkers on the hill on his table edge then several Serpents around there holding the Dragons and Avengers. On the left flank behind the shrine he deployed a Avenger unit with a Farseer and supporting unit of War Walkers.

I deployed my stuff in a bottleneck using the terrain to give cover and the front two tanks to give cover to the rest behind. Vendettas and Manticores were placed at the back, Manticores spaced out though.







* Tactical Notes

I'm hoping I've got enough fire power to do some damage to those Walkers as they are seriously annoying, what I am going to do is fire the Manticores at those which auto pen as the Manticores will lose a lot of ordnance and strength advantage if firing at the Serpents. Vendettas instead will fire at the Serpents as more shots and less affect on the lascannons thanks to the energy fields. War Walkers are my top priority everything else I'm not bothered about, including the Dragons as the meltas will cook through my armour either way.

Turn 1

John uses his scout move to move the War Walkers forward. I use my scout move to turbo boost the Vendettas to get cover save.

First turn John brings his right flank attack formation forward appearing around the shrine while War Walkers and a Dragon Serpent position themselves ontop of the hill on Johns board edge while a unit of Walkers flanks forward at the slope of the hill with Serpent support. Avenger Serpents hang back by the objective, which is a ruin btw right where John is standing.

Shooting he blasts the Vendetta with EMLs but it passes cover. A Chimera gets shot by EMLs from the left flank attack formation but doesn't do nothing. I think that's about it.

My turn I move the Hellhound forward using a ruin to block LOS to most of the force on the hill and on the slope. I move the Chimeras through the ruin bottleneck hoping to reduce the War Walkers on the left flank to slag with mass multi lasers.

Shooty shooty I take out a War Walker on the hill with some pretty crap Manticore fire if I am honest. I think I stop another from shooting too. I manage to shake the Serpent supporting the War Walkers with a Vendetta. I hammer the War Walkers coming on the right flank and if I remember right I score weapon destroyed on every single one of them leaving just three missiles left for the entire unit.





* Tactical Notes

Not a bad first turn. Walker damage has been acceptable, I've taken out one Walker and stopped another from firing in one unit on top of the hill and halved the fire power of another unit. I've also stopped a Serpent from shooting but that's nothing significant and the Dragons inside won't be in range of doing anything anyway, it's the Serpent behind the ruin I am more concerned about.

Next turn I'll continue to hammer the right flank attack with barrage of multi lasers, I'm hoping sheer weight of fire power will bring them down plsu I'll move up and use melta and plasma to bring them down or the Serpent too. I'm hoping that I can either pop a Serpent and get some Dragons out or John will get them out anyway, if so I'll move the Hound through terrain blocking the War Walkers flanking forward and burn the Dragons giving them a taste of their namesake.

Turn 2

John's second turn he moves the shaken Serpent into terrain across his board edge without any problems, the supporting War Walkers attempt to follow but get poor terrain rolls. The other War Walkers at the bottom of the hill march forward as the supporting Serpent moves 12" and Fire Dragons bail out on the left flank ready to BBQ a Vendetta. Serpent on the left flank moves to hide behind the shrine while the War Walkers stay to duke it out.

Shooting War Walkers on the right flank wreck a melta Chimera the squad inside passes pinning. War Walkers blast the Vendetta with the Fire Dragons after the dust has settled the Vendetta is crew shaken thanks to extra armour, weapon destroyed and immobilised, but it remains. The other Vendetta is weapon destroyed too thanks to the War Walkers on top of the hill.

My turn I move the melta squad forward on foot towards a ruin while Chimeras advance leaving the bottle neck of terrain. I attempt to move the Hellhound through terrain but it gets immobilised, great. Two plasma Chimeras remain on the left flank ready to support the Vendettas and go back to my objective if needed.

Shooting Manticores rain down on the War Walkers leaving just one from the squadron on the hill and two left from the squadon at the bottom of the hill. Fire Dragons get roasted by the Hellhound leaving one left who gets blasted by a multi laser and dies while the Serpent is crew shaken by multi laser fire. Right flank the War Walkers get blasted by multi laser fire again as the special weapons are just out of range, only one Walker remains which is crew stunned. The squad on foot receive move! move! move! order and run into the terrain by the stunned Walker.





* Tactical Notes

Not a bad turn again though this turn I've taken some damage as well, I've lost a Chimera but that's not too bad and a Vendetta has asborbed some serious punishment. John has lost a unit of Fire Dragons and had two units of War Walkers crippled which has greatly reduced his anti tank and anti tank is what he needs against mech Guard!

Next turn I'll finish that lone War Walker off and start moving towards Johns objective as I don't want the bloody thing getting side armour shots on my tanks. I'll keep blasting War Walkers with Manticores as auto pen is cool just a shame the damn things cannot hit and keep blasting Serpents with the Vendettas, if I can immobilised the Serpents or at least stop them moving for a turn then I am happy.

Turn 3

Johns turn the shaken Serpent turbo boosts down the left edge of the table using terrain for cover while the War Walkers at the bottom of the hill advance. John moves the Serpent on the right flank back towards his objective while the remaining Serpents float about there.

Shooting John blasts the immobilised Vendetta again but nothing happens. He tries blasting more of my tanks but nothing happens. War Walkers manage to explode a plasma Chimera on the left flank, but the troops hang on and pass morale and pinning.

My turn I move the tanks so they're in range of the single stunned walker but also heading up the board.

Shooting the single lascannon Vendetta blasts a War Walkers with support from the plasma Veterans inside and outside the Chimeras leaving one left which is crew shaken. War Walker on the hill takes a weapon destroyed result while some pot shots get taken at the Serpent hiding in terrain on John's board edge but does nothing. The solo War Walker is destroyed by melta while the Serpent near the objective is immobilised by the operational Vendetta.





* Tactical Notes

Again not a too bad turn and I haven't lost a lot this turn just a single Chimera which to be fair the squad inside is where I need them. John has taken more War Walker damage and has abandoned the left flank which allows me to move up the board towards his objective without any problems.

I'll move up and unleash multi laser fire hoping to cause some damage on some of the tanks to stop them doing something next turn when I roll up on his doorstep. I'm going to also have to deal with the Serpent coming down the left flank table edge, but John has come too early (bet his missus says that! lol) and has given me several turns to deal with the threat.

Turn 4

John moves the Serpent on the left table edge towards my objective but luckily a Manticore placed there earlier is blocking him. He bails the Avengers out the immobilised Serpent and into terrain to claim his objective while a Serpent with Avengers and the Farseer in which has been hiding behind that building move out while the one on the right flank with the other Farseer moves as the front of the ruin where the objective is. One Serpent carrying Fire Dragons comes forward to act as a roadblock against the oncoming Chimeras. The Dragons hiding their skimmer tank in terrain turbo boost out down the left flank.

Shooting Serpents blast out and manage to immobilise one Chimera while one is by the Fire Dragons while the single War Walker on the hill explodes on with a krak missile.

My turn I bail out a melta squad from the immobilised Chimera and move them to my objective while another melta unit bails out their tank with the other CCS to lay the smackdown on the Fire Dragons while the melta Veterans in the ruin which killed the solo War Walker move out of terrain to give support. I move the plasma unit from the crater towards the Serpent hiding on the left table edge behind terrain.

I issue bring it down to a melta squad and issue move! move! move! to the other which is running back towards my objective. Shooting Dragons Wave Serpent explodes killing a Dragon but maiming a CCS who fail morale and fall back, though the Dragons eat plasma and die. Solo War Walker at the bottom of the hill gets blasted by lascannons but is just stunned again. Plasmas and Vendettas blast the oncoming Serpent and stun it.






* Tactical Notes

John is getting closer but I've managed to put the stoppers on him for this turn. I've barricaded my objective with Manticores and go a unit of melta Veterans on my objective holding it. Shame I've taken too much damage on the advancing Chimera wall, I should have really gone 12" and popped smoke instead of moving up slowly and using multi lasers to actually not do a fat lot - dumbass mistake and I've paid for it!

Next turn I'll get the last CCS back in their tank as it was crew stunned, they will move forward 12" and pop smoke while the supporting melta on foot will move through terrain and receive the move! move! move! order.

Turn 5

John moves the Serpent carrying Fire Dragons over the stunned one and the Dragons bail out. He moves one Serpent up front with the other barricading his objective.

Shooting Fire Dragons only manage to get weapon destroyed on a Manticore thanks to cover due to placement of the Serpent. CCS gets blasted by scatter lasers and shuri cannons and die leaving just the two meltas left in the centre of the table.

My turn one melta unit gets into the CCS's Chimera and moves 12" as the other melta unit moves into the shrine ruin. Last Vendetta moves and turns to blast some Serpents blocking the advancment towards John's objective.

Shooting Fire Dragons get roasted by heavy flamers from the Manticores and all die. Plasmas blast the rear of the stunned Serpent scoring immobilised and weapon destroyed. Vendettas blasts a Serpent and it explodes leaving two Avengers left who pass morale. Chimera pops smoke as the supporting squad runs through terrain.



* Tactical Notes

Well this could be the last turn and looks to be a draw. John's objective is sort of open for me to get to and he's closer to mine but thanks to the barricade he won't get to it so makes no odds and the other Serpent is immobilised.

If there's a next turn I'll move the Chimera 12" and tank shock the Avengers. I'll move up the with melta unit in terrain and blast the survivors to pieces.

Turn 6

Game continues!

John moves the operational Serpent around the barricade but cannot get behind the tanks as I haven't left a big enough gap. He shoots the dudes on my objective but doesn't kill many and they pass morale. He manages to score weapon destroyed and immobilised on the Chimera moving towards his objective, which is a bit sad for me.

My turn I block the gap with a Manticore stopping the Serpent firing at the Guardsmen or at least they'll get cover. I blast the immobilised Serpent with plasma and it's toast. I bail out the Veterans and blast the Avengers on the objective who fail morale and run off, but the unit of 2 remain who were blown out their tank last turn and I cannot get LOS on them properly!

Game ends in a draw.



Summary

Damn that was very very close. If the Chimera wouldn't have been immobilised I think I would have had it in the bag. If the Guardsmen in terrain would have moved up further I could have blasted the unit of two Avengers, plus the Vendetta could have blasted them if it got better LOS - lots of ifs!

I think the only mistake I made was not moving the Chimera wall closer to John instead of moving 6", I should have moved 12" and popped smoke leaving three Chimeras on his door step and I could have left the CCS behind with the melta unit on foot to deal with the Fire Dragons and Wave Serpent. All I needed was just a single Chimera to get close.

John is getting better all the time and has caught on really quickly considering our first game. He's really giving me a run for my money now. Only mistakes he did was going for my objective too early as it gave me more time to take him out and also he should have placed his objective further back away from me, instead it was pretty close.

Very cool batrep. Thanks man. That was one nasty Eldar list.


I played against a Mechdar w/ War Walker support list last weekend and it actually gave me a run for my money. My opponent's key vs. AV12 walls was to Outflank his War Walkers for side armor AV10 shots. It worked rather well, and I barely eeked out a win. Do you think that your opponent should have outflanked his War Walker and/or Reserved his Wave Serpents?

Yah, my first thought when I saw that the Eldar players army was going first was, "I hope he outflanks his war walkers." They got pasted in the first couple of turns without doing anything, instead of getting massed side shots at AR10 arcs of chimera-chassis artillery.

Good battle report, though.

Thanks guys. The elder player has been playing since November so he's learning tactics. Outflank could have worked, but we was playing spearhead so if he outflanked on the wrong side those walkers would have done nothing.

Good batrep as always. I particularly like the action photo of grunts, Vendetta, and Chimera wiith the sun dramatically outlining the Vendetta. Nice photo.


Tallarn Commander,

IG, "We are many. They are few."

I was quite happy with a draw, it was only my second objective game and it was a pretty steep learning curve and as Mercer said I'm still learning tactics and what my guys can do.

I'm pretty chuffed that my list is being called nasty You should have seen what I had the first time I played Mercer lol

Tallarn Commander wrote:Good batrep as always. I particularly like the action photo of grunts, Vendetta, and Chimera wiith the sun dramatically outlining the Vendetta. Nice photo.


Tallarn Commander,

IG, "We are many. They are few."

The shot looked better on the camera screen as couldn't see anything else, looked like dawn of war

Metallicarule wrote:I was quite happy with a draw, it was only my second objective game and it was a pretty steep learning curve and as Mercer said I'm still learning tactics and what my guys can do.

I'm pretty chuffed that my list is being called nasty You should have seen what I had the first time I played Mercer lol

TBH John I think you're learning real quick and giving me a serious run for my money, and yes, the Eldar list is nasty.

mercer wrote:TBH John I think you're learning real quick and giving me a serious run for my money, and yes, the Eldar list is nasty.

Its because I have the power of the screaming serpent and the mino-walkers lol

- Drop the Walkers down to Scatter lasers, drop the cannons from all serpents = save 150pts
- Go out and grab 3 jetbikes, a jetbike with S cannon from ebay alse a Warlock on jetbike from chapterhouse studios
- Take a unit of 3 GJB with 1 S. Cannon + Warlock with Spear and Embolden.
- Give one of the Farseers runes of warding


The walkers if you hadn't noticed by now are rather squishy, so dropping to scatters makes them not only cheaper but the 8 shots makes up for their BS3. You'd be very surprised by the mess 24 TL S6 hots can make. Eventually you'll learn that you are much better served by 2 prisms and a nightspinner

I do give one of my seers runes of warding, its just in this game they didn't get used. I've tried scatter lasers on my walkers and to be honest I prefer EML on them as I find them better at popping tanks and great against mass infantry too, normally they are pretty much guided all the time to balance out the bs3. As for the shuri cannons on the serpents I've only just started using the underslung one, I used to go with the freebie catapults but against Mercers Blood Angels the underslung cannons proved invaluable, I'm actually considering dropping the scatter lasers from the serpents and going with T/L Shuri Cannons, they never seem to let me down.

I think the reason my walkers seemed to do nothing in this game is because Mercer has seen first hand what they can do to him and as he said in his batrep they are now his main priority lol.

I hope this isn't coming across as arrogant or disrespectful as I do appreciate advice that I'm given, I have tried most of the things listed and they haven't been as much fun as my wall of walkers Plus I've just spent the best part of £200 getting the models needed for my wave - walker list lol

Plus, if you change the Walkers load out to scatter lasers then you have no anti tank.

Haha, no offense taken. Everyone's playstyle is different and every area's meta is different. Personally, I'm not a fan of warwalkers because they are horribly slow and fall over from a strong breeze. Curious though, how did cannons help you vs blood angels?

@mercer- 3 squads of dragons and 24 scatter lasers is no anti-tank? Is he facing a 9 landraider list? Lol

mercer wrote:Plus, if you change the Walkers load out to scatter lasers then you have no anti tank.

S6 is pretty effective against most side armor, especially chimera/razor/rhino spam. And it's more than enough firepower for popping DE paper airplanes. Your fire dragons then take on the roll of popping AV 13/14, which they do quite well. Also the jetbike squad with the singing spear should easily be able to maneuver in for side shots as well.

Nice Battle Report, always nice to hear of an Eldar player doing well.

Yes, I would make the walkers scatter lasers, and use some points to upgrade the dragons and farseers. Fortune, Doom, runes, Tank Hunters, etc. very useful.

@BlueDagger - 2 weapons on a war walker of the same type are not TwinLinked. Wraithlord yes, Walkers no.

I think he was referring to if you cast guide on the warwalkers.

ah yea that makes sense, I like to cast guide on the walkers as well. let hell rain down upon thy enemies.

BlueDagger wrote:
@mercer- 3 squads of dragons and 24 scatter lasers is no anti-tank? Is he facing a 9 landraider list? Lol

3 squads of suicide Dragons have limited life span and will maximum only take out three armoured targets before they die. S6 is hardly anti tank, at the best it's light armour even against a Razorback it's like firing lascannons at armour 14. Glancing stuff to death isn't anti tank.

augustus5 wrote:

mercer wrote:Plus, if you change the Walkers load out to scatter lasers then you have no anti tank.

S6 is pretty effective against most side armor, especially chimera/razor/rhino spam. And it's more than enough firepower for popping DE paper airplanes. Your fire dragons then take on the roll of popping AV 13/14, which they do quite well. Also the jetbike squad with the singing spear should easily be able to maneuver in for side shots as well.

You're not always going to be in the side armour, and glancing on a 2+ is better than a 4+.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Nice Battle Report, always nice to hear of an Eldar player doing well.

Yes, I would make the walkers scatter lasers, and use some points to upgrade the dragons and farseers. Fortune, Doom, runes, Tank Hunters, etc. very useful.

@BlueDagger - 2 weapons on a war walker of the same type are not TwinLinked. Wraithlord yes, Walkers no.

Thanks man.

He uses runes already, they was a real pain in the arse in our last game when I used Blood Angels. Tank hunters at least on Fire Dragons are not needed, not sure if you can get them on anything else.

mercer wrote:You're not always going to be in the side armour, and glancing on a 2+ is better than a 4+.

EMLs on a warwalker: 2 shots, 1 hit, 66% chance to glance av11 side armor, 50% chance to pen
Scatterlasers on the same: 8 shots, 4 hits, 33% chance to glance av11 side armor, 16% chance to pen

With four times the amount of shots hitting, you're slightly more likely to get a pen result with the scatterlasers.

Also, with a unit that can outflank, it shouldn't be too hard to ensure side shots.

mercer wrote:3 squads of suicide Dragons have limited life span and will maximum only take out three armoured targets before they die.

This is true, but how much av13/14 do you expect to see in most lists? At least in my local meta I don't see a lot of it. The meta may be different where you are. But missiles can only glance av14 anyway, so if you're planning on needing more than the dragons to pop heavy armor, you're better off investing in some bright lances on your serpents maybe.

With 36" range side shots are not terribly hard to manage. The majority of things you will be firing at are armor 11 so 33% chance to land damage with 24 shots at 75% to land (with guide)... that is a lot of vehicle damage (3 pen, 3 glance). Against AV12 that is still about 3 glancing hits which you would be surprised what will do. Against AV11 6 EML shots will net 4 hits and 2-3 Pens and 0-1 glance. Against AV12 it will get 2 pens and it has the ability to damage things 13-14, but your Dragons should be hunting those if they exist. To sum all that up, in the long run the S6 will net you move damage thanks to the majority of things you will fire at are AV10-11.

Against infantry blobs the EML blast may pull ahead but that is dependent if your enemy clumps up or not. Your blast has to cover at least 3 models with each blast to pull ahead, and I won't go into scatter math since that is just a headache. In the long run however, it won't matter a whole lot since against most opponents your walkers will only get about 0-2 round of good shooting in. Personally if running 9 I'd do one set with EMLs and 2 sets with Scatter Laser, no outflank, just lined up with Serpents as cover shields.

Depends where it outflanks doesn't it. The EMLs still have better chances to pen by over double, you just have weight of fire power. Anyway, it's up to John, his list not mine.

No one should be firing missiles are armour 14 anyway.

mercer wrote:Depends where it outflanks doesn't it. The EMLs still have better chances to pen by over double, you just have weight of fire power. Anyway, it's up to John, his list not mine.

No one should be firing missiles are armour 14 anyway.

The EML has a much better chance to pen av11 on a shot per shot basis, but you should be getting four times as many hits with the scatterlasers which actually gives you a better chance to pen because you're rolling that many more times to try.

BlueDagger wrote:Curious though, how did cannons help you vs blood angels?

I had one of those games where everything went right and I managed to explode 5 razorbacks with shuri cannons Shuri cannons make Mercer cry, he told me he gets shuri-flashbacks lol

About half of my games so far have been against mass infantry so I've found the eml and the versatility it gives me more than useful, I know that the scatter laser is awesome but I just like the eml more, its the jack of all trades weapon in my eyes

They did indeed get weighted dice for that game

mercer wrote:They did indeed get weighted dice for that game

Sssssshhhh, you're not supposed to know about my weighted dice lol

Nice report! Both excellent lists as well.

Thanks man