Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone! Please let me know what you think of this list.
Is it good enough to take it to a tournament?


HQ

Librarian in termie armor & SS. Null Zone, Vortex of Doom - 140



Elites

5 Assault Terminators with TH & SS - 200


Troops
10 Tactical Marines with meltagun, ML, power fist, combi-melta in Rhino - 245
10 Tactical Marines with meltagun, ML, power fist, combi-melta in Rhino - 245
10 Tactical Marines with flamer, ML, power fist, combi-flamer, in Rhino - 240


Fast Attack
Land Speeder, MM, heavy flamer - 70


Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer with MM as dedicated for termies - 250
Predator with Autocannon, sponson lascannons - 120
Vindicator, dozer blade - 120
Vindicator, dozer blade - 120


Total 1750


I am not sure about the speeder since it is only one.. What alternatives would be good for about 70-90 points? A sniper scout squad? 2 additional termies and land raider crusader? Or drop a power fist also and add a Dreadnought?
Or maybe upgrade to Epistolary and choose Null Zone and Quickening?
OR take Vulkan instead of Librarian??

Which LR is another question, a part of me would prefer the normal one.. I feel the list will miss the Lascannons

What do you think?
Greatly appreciate your feedback,
Thanks!!

I'd cut all the Power Fists on the Tactical squads. It's probably better to just take whatever losses are coming and run away than try to make them better in CC. With the 75 points, you could take another Speeder.

Well, for a Rhino rush list, it's not bad. I'm just concerned you won't be able to to cross the table against a IG or Tau player.

Thank you for your responses!

Indeed i am between all Rhinos - all Drop Pods or a mix...
Any more suggestions??

Maybe the flamer squad and one of the melta squads each in a drop pod? Exact numbers is something I'm unsure about. That would probably require some trial and error to see what works best for you.

Another option would be to drop all PFs and the Land Speeder and take a normal Dreadnought (MM & CCW) with a Drop Pod.
One melta and the flamer squad go in Pods too.

This way the Dread and one squad drop first turn to shake things up and the second squad later or the pod drops empty.

The thing that troubles me is the scatter shots from the Vindicators.. They could easily fall on my podded marines..
Yet, i do not have enough game experience to judge that..
What do you think?

Thanks!

I find that taking a regular dreadnaught in the forge world drop pod (meaning it can assault the turn it arrives) is extremely useful. At only 155pts (including the pod) it can generally kill more than it's points total before it gets taken down.

WOW! How is that possible? Details please..

Ths SM codex does not say something like that..

How can it be tournament legal??

MrEconomics wrote:I'd cut all the Power Fists on the Tactical squads. It's probably better to just take whatever losses are coming and run away than try to make them better in CC. With the 75 points, you could take another Speeder.

As this dude said.

@Spartaitis: It depends on whether your tournament allows IA rules or not. Some do not, some do. Check with your TO before counting on this ability. It's a useful trick if you can do it... though I think an Iron Clad would be a better choice for the role.

I see Power Fists are love or hate..

Half of the people swear by them and the other half deem them totally unnecessary..


I see them as a bit of a "fear" factor. The opponent may regret close combating the squad even with a monstrous creature..
The are very expensive though..

Come on people, Review!!

It can not be such a good llist that does not need improvements!!

spartiatis wrote:I see Power Fists are love or hate..

Half of the people swear by them and the other half deem them totally unnecessary..


I see them as a bit of a "fear" factor. The opponent may regret close combating the squad even with a monstrous creature..
The are very expensive though..

You will combat squad your Marines meaning only 5 in combat. Monstrous creature will probably maul them all except the power fist which strikes back and could cause 2 wounds max, monstrous creature wins.

i like the predator choice, thats the type i use, not a fan of the vindicators, but that is just because I don't like em that much and would rather take 240 points elsewhere, but I have been TORN UP by them before and definitely see their merit

mercer wrote:

spartiatis wrote:I see Power Fists are love or hate..

Half of the people swear by them and the other half deem them totally unnecessary..


I see them as a bit of a "fear" factor. The opponent may regret close combating the squad even with a monstrous creature..
The are very expensive though..

You will combat squad your Marines meaning only 5 in combat. Monstrous creature will probably maul them all except the power fist which strikes back and could cause 2 wounds max, monstrous creature wins.

I think when he says "close combating the squad", he really means assaulting.

Yes I know, and it will COMBAT SQUAD his Marines, so splitting them into two units of 5 so the missile launcher can hang back and shoot and the meltagun move forward to get into melta range. You cannot assault out of a Rhino and because only 5 guys a monstrous creature will waste the Marines.

not if they fight heroicly! but yes, they will die vs monstrous...

But even two wounds on a monstrous creature is attrition..
The sergeant may finish it off or the next shooting squad

I would take the godhammer landraider. They are really good in the vanilla dex.

mercer wrote:

MrEconomics wrote:I'd cut all the Power Fists on the Tactical squads. It's probably better to just take whatever losses are coming and run away than try to make them better in CC. With the 75 points, you could take another Speeder.

As this dude said.

Yes this--simple and very effective change.

Also, IA stuff is mostly overpowered and totally unbalances the game, which really takes the fun out of it. I'd imagine it's not allowed in a tournament unless it says you can use it.

Here's what I would change:

Replace Vortex of Doom with Gate of Infinity or Avenger.
Swap the Redeemer for a Crusader. It's far more reliable at killing infantry.
Drop the Powerfists on the Tactical Marines. What do you need them for given you already have Assault Terminators in the list? Anything that assaults them is going to kill them regardless (especially Monstrous Creatures, WTF), save yourself the points.
Give you sergeants combi-flamers, for the tank shock and flame technique.
With the points saved, take another MM/HF Speeder.
Replace the Vindicators with another two Predators of the same type, as your list seriously lacks long range firepower.

In regards to it being tournament worthy...sort of. You will beat a lot of terrible players simply because of the Land Raider/Assault Terminator/Null Zone combination. Decent players who actually know how to beat deathstar units or take down AV14 will walk all over you.

There isn't a whole lot you can do about it either, taking a Land Raider gives you a big scary rock that works well until someone brings paper. I could suggest far more competitive lists at this points level but you would have to give up the Land Raider to do it.

I find that taking a regular dreadnaught in the forge world drop pod (meaning it can assault the turn it arrives) is extremely useful. At only 155pts (including the pod) it can generally kill more than it's points total before it gets taken down.

I really wish people would stop giving such fething terrible advice. Who tells someone to take IA to a tournament? Oh I know! Why don't you take Imperial Titan or a Baneblade instead!

unbeliever87 wrote:Here's what I would change:


Give you sergeants combi-flamers, for the tank shock and flame technique.
With the points saved, take another MM/HF Speeder.
Replace the Vindicators with another two Predators of the same type, as your list seriously lacks long range firepower.

In regards to it being tournament worthy...sort of. You will beat a lot of terrible players simply because of the Land Raider/Assault Terminator/Null Zone combination. Decent players who actually know how to beat deathstar units or take down AV14 will walk all over you.

Thanks for the advice all of you, really appreciated!

What is the tank shock and flame technique?

I would be interested indeed to to see your suggestions about making the list more competitive without the Land Raider. I am not totally sure about it, but i see it as the only way for supporting the close combat termies

Tank Shock and flame is where you tank shock an infantry unit (big guard blob, orks, gants etc) right down the middle, forcing them to move the minimum distance out of the way so they bunch up into a nice small little group. You then take your seargent out of the tank and flame them. Using this method you should be able to fit 12-15 models under each template.

Here the thing with Land Raiders. For the same price as a single Land Raider you could take another 5 Assault Terminators. Which are better, 5 Assault Terminators on the charge, or 10 receiving the charge? 5 can get torrented down in a single turn, 10 not so easily.

Something like this would work fine.

Librarian, Gate of Infinity, Nullzone - 100
Tactical Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 220
Tactical Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 220
Tactical Squad, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 210
Assault Terminators (10), 8 x TH/SS - 400
Dreadnought, 2 x TL-Autocannon - 125
Dreadnought, 2 x TL-Autocannon - 125
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher - 90
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher - 90
Predator, Heavy Bolter sponsons - 85
Predator, Heavy Bolter sponsons - 85

The Typhoons line up behind the Predators for cover, who each buddy up with a Dreadnought and take the two corners.
The Tactical marines combat squad and the Missile Launcher halves try to find cover, or hide behind the Dreadnought/Predators if they cannot. The other halves jump in their rhinos and move into the midfield, where they can take objectives and threaten both hordes and mech.
The Librarian teams up with the Assault Terminators and Gate forward.

You have far more long range shooting here (against both hordes and mech) with the Dreadnoughts, Predators, Typhoons and Tactical Marines. You also have more Terminators and the ability to get them almost anywhere on the board.

Thanks for typing all this, realy enlightening!!

My only objections is using Gate to move the termies..
I have not used it yet in a game but i find it hard to endanger a whole unit of termies to scatter on a ruin and be destroyed..
Unless i have not understood something correctly..

Would it work to take locator beacons with the squads on the rhinos and gate the termies after the rhinos have moved?

spartiatis wrote:I have not used it yet in a game but i find it hard to endanger a whole unit of termies to scatter on a ruin and be destroyed..
Unless i have not understood something correctly..

Would it work to take locator beacons with the squads on the rhinos and gate the termies after the rhinos have moved?

Tactical Marines cannot take Locator Beacons.

Scatter only hurts if you land on impassable terrain, enemy models, or off the table. Why are you deep striking your big valuable squad next to the board edge or right next to enemy models? You need to actually be smart with your deep strike placement...
Oh and TH/SS Terminators don't care if they land on dangerous terrain. 5 points if you can guess why?

Well, i do not see any other "smart" way to place the deep stiking unit apart from placing them 12" away from enemies and impassable terrain..
Is there something else i do not have in mind?


My guess would be because whereas normal saves can not be taken, the assault termies have their 3+ invul. save in case they roll 1.
Right or not?

While I like Unbeliever's list, I think the people who say drop the power fists are wrong.

There will be many a time something big hits your lines, and you'll want the fist. Or a similar squad with a fist hits yours, guess who should be doing more wounds?

Keep at least 1 to deal with a big critter or dread that gets in your lines.

I lost a tournament once because Ragnar and 5 wg assault terminators got tied up by a dread....all my powerfists were across the table....

I think keep the fists, I like the extra umph you get in close combat.

Also I always have a devestator squad in my army, and usually a scout sniper squad. Between them (if they have a good vantage point), they can eliminate a good chunk of enemies and also pin a lot of squads between them.