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Is there a point to running Predators as Space Wolves?

I know everyone says Long Fangs with missles are the best heavy but hear me out here. Long Fangs kinda suck if you want to reserve your army and in dawn of war unless you by them transports. Venom spam and psybolt razor spam also does a number on Long fangs while Predators are largely immune unless the psybolt razors get side shots.

Coming from playing IG where if someone has a huge alpha strike shooting you reserve because you don't want to start on the table to eat a shooting alpha strike what do wolf players do if faced with a heavy shooting army? Do they just start on the table and eat the alpha strike?

Maybe I'm too stuck on IG ways since I played them for 2 years but Predators seems worth testing if you reserve your army. 1 Maybe 2 Predators with las cannon sponsons with 2/1 units of long fangs in las/plas razors seems like a decent option for dawn of war or reserving? Predators also have Str9 AP2 las cannons for insta gibbing Paladins or better chance of getting penetrates on Grey Knights fortitude vehicles. Or do Wolf players just start on the board and eat the alpha strike?

Kirika wrote:Is there a point to running Predators as Space Wolves?

I know everyone says Long Fangs with missles are the best heavy but hear me out here. Long Fangs kinda suck if you want to reserve your army and in dawn of war unless you by them transports. Venom spam and psybolt razor spam also does a number on Long fangs while Predators are largely immune unless the psybolt razors get side shots.

Coming from playing IG where if someone has a huge alpha strike shooting you reserve because you don't want to start on the table to eat a shooting alpha strike what do wolf players do if faced with a heavy shooting army? Do they just start on the table and eat the alpha strike?

Maybe I'm too stuck on IG ways since I played them for 2 years but Predators seems worth testing if you reserve your army. 1 Maybe 2 Predators with las cannon sponsons with 2/1 units of long fangs in las/plas razors seems like a decent option for dawn of war or reserving? Predators also have Str9 AP2 las cannons for insta gibbing Paladins or better chance of getting penetrates on Grey Knights fortitude vehicles. Or do Wolf players just start on the board and eat the alpha strike?

There are problems in Dawn of War, and for that you can buy each squad a Razorback. Then, move on 12", disembark, and run to get into position for T2.

Why do you think Predators would be less vulnerable to DE than Long Fangs? If anything they're more vulnerable at range and just as vulnerable up close.

I think taking AC/LC or AC/HB preds with Space Wolves really boils down to personal taste. If you want to buck the trend and not take Long Fang spam like everyone, including me, then SW players next best options for HS would be predators.

Yes true. Long fangs suck when they come into reserve. But the Predator is worse because not only does it fire only 1 weapon when moving in, it also stops shooting when its shaken. And a heavy support unit not putting down shots, is a useless heavy support unit.

If reserves is really your concern, then your best bet are wolf scouts with melta guns and a wolfguard with Combi melta +Pfist.


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Yes true. Long fangs suck when they come into reserve. But the Predator is worse because not only does it fire only 1 weapon when moving in, it also stops shooting when its shaken. And a heavy support unit not putting down shots, is a useless heavy support unit.

If reserves is really your concern, then your best bet are wolf scouts with melta guns and a wolfguard with Combi melta +Pfist.

If you are going to reserve the unit then I think you would be much better of using the preds. The fact that when they come on the long fangs cant shoot is a huge loss. That means no shots until at least turn three if they come on in turn two. plus you cant go wrong with only 85 points for a predator with an autocannon and two heavy bolter sponson

People over react to dawn of war, especially when it comes to long ranged fire support units like long fangs. Long ranged heavy support are not able to reliably get off shots due to night fighting anyways. The loss of their turn 1 shots is not that big of a deal.

Long Fangs are probably better, but Predators have advantages as well-- not dying to Venoms, for instance!

In normal games I wouldn't bother reserving SWs. A strong deployment and marine toughness means that you can stand first turn alpha strike better than weedy xenosor or guard. Losing out on multiple turns of firepower is often as bad as having half your army blown up. Instead of them killing half your army turn one, and finishing off your guys over the remaining turns, your opponent kills half of your army turn 2, then picks off the rest when they come trickling in. Delaying that alpha until turn 2 isn't a good idea, especially when your army doesn't have much ability to move and shoot (marines lose most of their firepower that matters when they move, even their tanks).

In dawn of war, both sides are under the same restrictions, and wolves have acute senses IIRC. Also there is no reason Not to give all foot squads a razorback with SWs, they are pretty good you know. Also, use those searchlights!

notabot187 got it. In dawn of war both sides can only start out w/ so many units. So at the start of turn 1 when everything comes in most things won't be able to shoot anyways, plus theres night fighting rules. So really nothing in either persons army will be effective until turn 2. I wounldn't worry to much about this, since there is nothing you can do.

As far as taking a Pred over LF, its your call. LF dish out more usually on a consistant basis, the Pred will let you move around more. It probably won't dish out as much, but it cant be lashed, but can die from one lucky shot. Everything has pros and cons. The choice is up to you, and what you see as a fit to counter your areas meta. I personally like LF, cause I can lash 'em out of cover and give their skulls up to Khorne.

Either way you play SW, so I hope you get rabies (just a joke but I hate RUSS!)

OverwatchCNC wrote:I think taking AC/LC or AC/HB preds with Space Wolves really boils down to personal taste. If you want to buck the trend and not take Long Fang spam like everyone, including me, then SW players next best options for HS would be predators.

I'd have to agree with much of this sentiment.

Whilst Long Fangs are typically a more competitive option, the Predators are by no means a bad option. They provide extra armour saturation, higher-strength weaponry, the ability to move and shoot and are arguably less fragile. As well as being cheaper.
Then again, there's also the alternative of 5 split-fire missile launchers.

I wouldn't criticise anyone for using Preds as Space Wolves, in fact I'd endorse it, not least due to its originality and I think Predators can bring many things to the field and should not be underestimated, despite typically being a slightly weaker option than fangs. Note however that a AC/LC Predator is 120pts, whilst 6 Long Fangs with Missiles in a Razorback is 180pts.

schadenfreude wrote:People over react to dawn of war, especially when it comes to long ranged fire support units like long fangs. Long ranged heavy support are not able to reliably get off shots due to night fighting anyways. The loss of their turn 1 shots is not that big of a deal.

That's very true (note Pred's can have searchlights ), but the Long Fangs may need to spend extra turns moving into position for example.



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Good topic btw the OP; great question.
I also agree with the idea of the 2:1 ratio; working either way IMHO.

As much as I love combipreds, I really dont see the need in SW lists. Like others said, combipreds are not bad options, BUT other armies get combi-preds. No one else gets long fangs.

If you really want better reserve options, take BA combipreds. Move on 6 and fire everything.

And if the enemy is packing huge numbers of venoms, longfang splitfire +razorback lets you damage more a turn than a combipred does, so even versus venomspam longfangs are better. Dont forget you can do things like completely block LOS to your longfangs with razorbacks turn 1, so venomshots need not apply if your really really worried.

Predators aren't really worth running for Space Wolves.

The Long Fangs with missles in a Razorback with Las cannon and TL Plasma gun is what I use for my heavies. Sure this costs more in points but is more versatile. Buying a transport solves the dawn of war issue of positioning for long fangs as moving 12 getting out 2 and running usually gets you to cover and a good firing position. The extra transports also can pick up grey hunters that lose theirs later in the game.

Predators don't really help with reserve issues because they can fire only 1 weapon when the arrive.

If you really have to reserve you you can move the long fang razorbacks 6 and fire their las cannons while the long fangs get out 2 inches and hopefully you get a good run.

Predators don't really help much versus Dark Eldar as they move fast enough to get side shots with lances and render Predators ineffective faster then long fangs die. Versus Grey Knights, Predators are't even that good either as one stunned or shaken stops them from shooting while it takes considerably more fire to kill the long fangs.

I rarely actually reserve as Space Wolves don't have a modifier to reserves as Guard or Eldar do. On a decent board you can find enough cover for your long fangs and some vehicles where you can hide some vehicles behind each other.

trust me, run long fangs with your SW army... I have a friend who runs long fangs all the time and I curse him every single time about how BS they are.