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Hi all, just played a game and ran into two questions:

1) Can units inside an exploding transport claim cover saves from the explosion? I said no, since they aren't on the board and thus can't really be said to be in cover, but we weren't totally sure. Similarly, can units in cover claim cover saves against their own weapons Getting Hot?

2) When firing a blast weapon at two vehicles that are touching one another, can you position the blast so that the center hole (including the center of the template itself) overlaps the target model but also touches the adjacent vehicle (and thus does a full strength hit to both), or does the center hole have to be entirely on the target model?

1) You can take cover saves from explosions, but you'd have to get that cover save from wargear, a psychic power or a special rule. Area terrain or anything similar won't help. You can always take cover saves, unless you are explicitly told they are not allowed. So cover saves are possible against "Get's hot!", though mostly due to bad wording.

2) The hole must be over the target model. If it's over a second model, it's not over the target model.(BRB pg. 30)

1) As said before, cover save from wargear. However, I would disagree with getting a cover save from get hot. Admittedly no where in the book does it say that these cover saves are allowed, however I haven't seen anywhere that you can always take cover saves unless stated otherwise. Not to mention it makes more sense getting no save.

2) As long as the central hole of the blast marker is entirely over the target model, anything else that is under the blast is hit. In the example you gave, if your blast marker was entirely over one vehicle, but the radius caught the other vehicle, it would get hit too.

1) in the rules for cover saves it states you can take them, and then in the rules for Assaults it states you cannot. General permission to take them is right there in the rules.

2) However it would get hit at HALF strength. It is NOT legal to put the hole over two vehicles, as this violates the requirement for the hole to be entirely over the hull of the target vehicle.

The only way it would be legl is with a skimmer over another vehicle

and skimmers are forbidden from hovering over other models.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:1) As said before, cover save from wargear. However, I would disagree with getting a cover save from get hot. Admittedly no where in the book does it say that these cover saves are allowed, however I haven't seen anywhere that you can always take cover saves unless stated otherwise. Not to mention it makes more sense getting no save.

You are only allowed to claim cover save if either a) the line of sight from the firer is obscured or if b) the firer is shooting through more than 2" of area terrain. For similar reasons you can't claim cover saves from area terrain when a vehicle explodes since you are defacto point blanc and inside from the firer (the vehicle you are in).

well, thats because you technically weren't in the area terrain at the time of the explosion.

I'm just saying it wouldn't matter anyway.

BRB pg60:

'Place the marker with the hole over any part of the vehicle's hull'. RAW does not say 'any fraction of the hole'.

But the question remains open of scattered blasts landing with the hole touching two hulls. You only get full strength if 'the centre of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull.' If you want to strip this down to extreme RAW, it's not saying the hole or any fraction thereof, it's saying the centre of the blast marker.

Slightly dodgy wording, here, but with nothing defining the 'centre' as the hole - the hole is AFAIK just described as being 'in the centre' - then geometry tells us the centre of this circular object is the point where diameters cross.

GT - no, they are not. They are forbidden from ending THEIR move over another model, other models are NOT forbidden from ending THEIR move under a model.

Mahtamori - your 2) is incorrect. You only need to be firing through more than 2" of Area Terrain if you are firing OUT OF area terrain. Read the title of that paragragh....

Mahtamori wrote:
You are only allowed to claim cover save if either...b) the firer is shooting through more than 2" of area terrain

This is not a rule. If you are in area terrain you get to claim a cover save no matter how far you are away from the shooter. This affect the 'gets hot' question. How ever the vehicle question this doesn't apply because you aren't in the area terrain when you take hits you are still in the vehicle. You disembark once you survive the hits.


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VoxDei wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:
You are only allowed to claim cover save if either...b) the firer is shooting through more than 2" of area terrain

This is not a rule. If you are in area terrain you get to claim a cover save no matter how far you are away from the shooter (the two inch rule is for when the fire is in terrain and the target is not). This affect the 'gets hot' question. How ever the vehicle question this doesn't apply because you aren't in the area terrain when you take hits you are still in the vehicle. You disembark once you survive the hits.

So, how exactly would you be able to claim a cover save when the damaging unit surrounds the troops before they appear on the field before difficult terrain is established? And how exactly does the LOS of an exploding plasma gun get obscured on to the same model? Short answer, they aren't. The unit in the transport hasn't even been fielded yet, as the rolls to wound happen before the area terrain and the troops are placed on the field. And the wound for Get Hot! is for the same model, so he can't obscure himself.

C'mon people, the cover save is not guaranteed every time something bad happens. Stop abusing the rule.

not cover save not in cover till you get out

Because you are already in the terrain. See page 67, measuring to embarked units. You measure to the unit in the vehicle, find they are in area terrain, and find they therefore get cover.

Again, this is rampant abuse of the area terrain and vehicle damage rule. If you don't ant to lose models, don't use transports. Or better yet, don't play the game.

Solo - so, you dont have a rules argument?

Good to know.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Again, this is rampant abuse of the area terrain and vehicle damage rule. If you don't ant to lose models, don't use transports. Or better yet, don't play the game.

You don't get cover from terrain for explosions. You can get cover elsewhere (KFF, SoS).