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Do you think that Grey Knights would purge Cadia if they defend against large Daemon attack, like that on Armageddon?
I don't think they would succeed if they try something like that.

Brother Coa wrote:Do you think that Grey Knights would purge Cadia if they defend against large Daemon attack, like that on Armageddon?
I don't think they would succeed if they try something like that.

Well theres probably enough ships going in and out of cadia to slip in an exterminatus ship, so they would probably do that and call it good. But in all reality I doubt the inquisition allow that due to the nature of the planets strategic purposes.

Wardragoon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Do you think that Grey Knights would purge Cadia if they defend against large Daemon attack, like that on Armageddon?
I don't think they would succeed if they try something like that.

Well theres probably enough ships going in and out of cadia to slip in an exterminatus ship, so they would probably do that and call it good. But in all reality I doubt the inquisition allow that due to the nature of the planets strategic purposes.

In all honesty, I'd say the Gate of Cadia is perhaps the single most important point of the Imperium (short of the Cradle of Terra itself). Preserving, and holding, the Cadian Gate would be more important than the very existence of the Grey Knights themselves.

Lets just go with no...

No, there's no point. As we discussed in the other thread, purging Cadia would be a slowed move by The Imperium. It would be a massive waste of resources, I wouldn't see any reason to enact a cull of a population who know of, fight regularly, are trained to fight, and are hardened against, Daemons.
Sure, you could make the argument that The Imperium could train their entire population as such, but Cadia and it's surrounding systems are unique, they have an 8000 year heritage of doing what the do, and are like that because of where they are and the purpose entrusted to them. I can safely say that a hardened culture like they have didn't just happen over-night.

No. Eisenhorn shows that there's basically some sort of Chaos related incident twice a day on Cadia. Happens all the time. Once again Grey Knights kill all witnesses to hid their existence not Demons

Well, what then happens to Cadian Regiments on other fronts if they encounter GK ?

Brother Coa wrote:Well, what then happens to Cadian Regiments on other fronts if they encounter GK ?

Kaputt.

But again, it's not the knowledge of daemons they're trying to supress.

Cadians generally get a pass.

Kaputt, I say.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No. Eisenhorn shows that there's basically some sort of Chaos related incident twice a day on Cadia. Happens all the time. Once again Grey Knights kill all witnesses to hid their existence not Demons

...well that's slowed. Why keep such a secret?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No. Eisenhorn shows that there's basically some sort of Chaos related incident twice a day on Cadia. Happens all the time. Once again Grey Knights kill all witnesses to hid their existence not Demons

...well that's slowed. Why keep such a secret?

What? Why do GKs keep themselves a secret?

If they deploy Exterminatus, who will land on Cadia with a stupid grin on their face and shout, "CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"?

No one, that's who.

Goddard wrote:If they deploy Exterminatus, who will land on Cadia with a stupid grin on their face and shout, "CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"?

No one, that's who.

Actually Abaddon probably would given his past and considering he isn't wearing a helmet he would die and be screaming CREEEEEEEEED!!! into the silent void where not even the gods can hear him... stupid B*st*rd

The 13th Black Crusades progress means that the planet has likely been exposed to quite a bit of the daemonic already. The people of Cadia live on the edge of the eye of terror and everyone is expected to be a soldier to fight Chaos. Both of these mean that Cadia is one of the few worlds where the citizens have some sort of limited knowledged of Chaos imo.

I am not quite certain the knowledge of chaos is the main but more of knowledge of the Grey Knights.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No. Eisenhorn shows that there's basically some sort of Chaos related incident twice a day on Cadia. Happens all the time. Once again Grey Knights kill all witnesses to hid their existence not Demons

...well that's slowed. Why keep such a secret?

What? Why do GKs keep themselves a secret?

Yes. If Knowledge of the Deamon isn't a reason for secrecy, why go to such gret lengths to ensure the secrecy of the Grey Knights? Honestly, how is the average soldier/civvy going to view the GK as different from any sort of other 'Angel of Death'.

The scale of the threat, as we we flipping discussed in the other thread. The Grey Knights use of Psychic powers and Sorcery to fight Daemons doesn't exactly appeal to the superstitious Imperial Citizens. If they were to know of the full threat Chaos poses, there would be mass rebellions with people trying to throw their lot in with Chaos to save themselves.
If they see The Grey Knights, they will have been involved with a Daemonic incursion of some sort. They aren't just walking around on random peaceful planets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing. Regularly culling Cadia of its defenders would drastically weaken The Gate, The Imperium would basically be inviting Abbaddon in.

iproxtaco wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing. Regularly culling Cadia of its defenders would drastically weaken The Gate, The Imperium would basically be inviting Abbaddon in.

I assume these cullings will get rid of everything that could cause Abaddon to trip, since we all know Abaddon couldn't tie his shoes without failing epically.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No. Eisenhorn shows that there's basically some sort of Chaos related incident twice a day on Cadia. Happens all the time. Once again Grey Knights kill all witnesses to hid their existence not Demons

...well that's slowed. Why keep such a secret?

What? Why do GKs keep themselves a secret?

Yes. If Knowledge of the Deamon isn't a reason for secrecy, why go to such gret lengths to ensure the secrecy of the Grey Knights?

Because they're jerks.

iproxtaco wrote:The scale of the threat, as we we flipping discussed in the other thread. The Grey Knights use of Psychic powers and Sorcery to fight Daemons doesn't exactly appeal to the superstitious Imperial Citizens. If they were to know of the full threat Chaos poses, there would be mass rebellions with people trying to throw their lot in with Chaos to save themselves.
If they see The Grey Knights, they will have been involved with a Daemonic incursion of some sort. They aren't just walking around on random peaceful planets.

Then you're not killing people because they know about the Grey Knights, you're killing them becuase they're aware of how much a threat deamons are (which is still slowed, but not as much as GK secrecy).

I'll ask again, why would your average Imperial Guardsmen or Civilian need to be killed for witnessing what they may think as nothing more than a Astartes, or perhaps an Astartes Librarian, in Silver Power Armour.

Because they're not killed for "witnessing what they may think as nothing more than an Astartes, or perhaps an Astartes Librarian, in Silver Power Armour".

They're killed for the fact that they've been exposed to a full-fledged Daemonic incursion and likely been irredeemably exposed to the powers associated with that.

Kanluwen wrote:Because they're not killed for "witnessing what they may think as nothing more than an Astartes, or perhaps an Astartes Librarian, in Silver Power Armour".

They're killed for the fact that they've been exposed to a full-fledged Daemonic incursion and likely been irredeemably exposed to the powers associated with that.

That's right. Even if they are fine now, after several weeks Guardsman start hearing voices and shortly after that rebel ( just see Aurelia sector, and they have just 2 Grater Daemons. One of them was even inactive ). GK know this very well, so they kill them now instead of killing them later.

Kanluwen wrote:Because they're not killed for "witnessing what they may think as nothing more than an Astartes, or perhaps an Astartes Librarian, in Silver Power Armour".

Good, because that would be silly.

They're killed for the fact that they've been exposed to a full-fledged Daemonic incursion and likely been irredeemably exposed to the powers associated with that.

Which isn't as silly, but still contradictory. Not every deamonic incursion brings the Grey Knights running, and sometimes the forces of the Imperium beat the deamonic incursion regardless of whether the Boys-in-silver show up. Are you saying that any sort of exposure to a deamonic force means that the IG regiment is corrupted? What's the point then? The Guardsmen are either dead or corrupted.

Brother Coa wrote:Do you think that Grey Knights would purge Cadia if they defend against large Daemon attack, like that on Armageddon?
I don't think they would succeed if they try something like that.

I'm thinking if they tried they'd get exterminated by the real defenders of the Imperium - the Guard. Save your PR stories for the civilians on Terra. Guard's where its at.
CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They're killed for the fact that they've been exposed to a full-fledged Daemonic incursion and likely been irredeemably exposed to the powers associated with that.

Which isn't as silly, but still contradictory. Not every deamonic incursion brings the Grey Knights running, and sometimes the forces of the Imperium beat the deamonic incursion regardless of whether the Boys-in-silver show up. Are you saying that any sort of exposure to a deamonic force means that the IG regiment is corrupted? What's the point then? The Guardsmen are either dead or corrupted.

It is contradictory, and it's He Who Must Not Be Named's fault for writing things without taking established fluff into account, which, before we start an argument over Him, is different from changing fluff, although the two aren't exclusive of each other.

Of course, if the IoM could drop exterminatus on Cadia at the "current" timeline with the full on chaos invasion they probably would, as it would waste the vanguard of the Chaos Legions. The fact they haven't means they can't. Probably the matter of the chaos fleets fighting them off that does it.

I'd imagine Cadia is like Guadalcanal at this point, with neither side having sufficient naval advantage currently to do such.

They also probably wouldn't want to. They manage to kill the vanguard on the surface, yay! Then they realize that they haven't now got anything to defend the gate with, and possibly billions of men who were holding out are now dead, and the defenses are broken

Emperors Faithful wrote:

They're killed for the fact that they've been exposed to a full-fledged Daemonic incursion and likely been irredeemably exposed to the powers associated with that.

Which isn't as silly, but still contradictory. Not every daemonic incursion brings the Grey Knights running, and sometimes the forces of the Imperium beat the daemonic incursion regardless of whether the Boys-in-silver show up.

Are you saying that any sort of exposure to a daemonic force means that the IG regiment is corrupted? What's the point then? The Guardsmen are either dead or corrupted.

Exposure to a daemonic force, if unprepared or untrained to resist it, will result in corruption inevitably.

That's the nature of Chaos. What it doesn't destroy, it renders untrustworthy and potentially unusable. Is that necessarily going to be the case?

Perhaps, perhaps not. But why risk having an entire regiment turn traitor?

So what happens to the regiments that have fought against daemons and survived but without the assistance of Grey Knights?

I mean like in Graham McNeills Pestilence, an excellent short story well worth a read, a planet is under siege by the forces of Nurgle. The Guard and Doom Eagles win without help from Grey Knights and they all live happily ever after. Or do they?

This kinda thing happening, I can imagine, is pretty common on Cadia. Cadians are accustomed to the forces of the daemon so maybe they are let off. But not everyone is, which I assume is why Armageddon went down the way it did afterwards.