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Who would win in battle or war? Warhammer 40k Tyranids or the Halo Flood?

Moving to 40K General Discussions.

Tyranids. Near unlimited numbers providing they have food, which The Flood is. The Flood requires sapient organisms to reproduce. It's debatable whether guants and the like are sapient, in fact, they aren't. The Flood could however take out control organisms thus crippling the fleets capacity.

Plus i think that the tyranids would just evolve to make their dna un"floodable" or have themselves explode or dissolve upon death to prevent infection!

Tyranids, hands down. We don't even know if infection forms can infect Tyranids, seeing as they couldn't do it to Hunters. Also considering that dead flood = more biomass for Tyranids, and the fact that the Flood don't have any ways of quickly replenishing their troops or the power to deal with any of the more lethal Tyranids, and will have a hard time coping once the Hive develops a way of fighting the infection if it occurs and developing a form of anti-flood...

The only things the Tyranids have real trouble fighting are Necrons, Orks (they're both capable of mass producing troops, the Tyranids feed off the Ork and their own casualties, and the Orks feed off the fighting) and Ultramarines. The Flood don't have the mass reproduction ability of Orks, or their love for war; they don't have the resillience and general anti-organic weaponry of the Necrons; and they don't have the plot armour of the Smurfs.

Nids without question, for the reasons stated above.

Avatar 720 wrote: and they don't have the plot armour of the Smurfs.

I see what you did there

This isnt even a debate lol, its just TYRANIDS OWN FLOOD

Dunno what effect a Flood would have on a synapse creature like a normal warrior. Might start to make things a bit crazy for the lesser creatures like 'Gaunts and 'Gants.

Would the Tyranids add biomass corrupted by the Flood to their own though? They tend to not absorb stuff that might make them icky. Like why that won't take back the Ymgarrl Genestealer strain.

Somehow I doubt asking this on a forum dedicated to warhammer 40k would result in opinions other than Tyranids. If people "don't know if the infection will work on Tyranids," how can they claim victory either way in the same sentence?

The Exo-skeleton of Drones protects them from Infection , meaning Tyranids would have resilience to the Infection Forms and if Tyranids absorbed the Bio-Mass off the infected they would Evolve to the stage where the Flood are unable to consume or infect them.

I wonder...

While I would initially agree with the assessment of pretty much everyone above me (except for the jibe at the Ultramarines) the contrarian wargamer in me sees a few possibilities that might indicate otherwise.

People seem to be taking the ability of the Tyranids to consume the Flood's biomass for granted. If the process of Flood infection somehow 'taints' the biomass, then the Tyranids would be pretty hosed. What's more, the Flood seems to come up with a dizzying array of weaponry presumably manufactured from the biology of the host. (Remember the exploding fatties?) So, it all depends on what they could do with Tyranid DNA. Which, I think, would be quite a bit.

Both species seem very adaptable. I think any conflict between the two would A) render whatever planet the battle was taking place on a total nightmarish wasteland and B) may very well develop into a neverending struggle of 'adapt and counter-adapt' with each side constantly evolving and changing to react to the other.

In the end I still have to come down on the side of the Tyranids, for a totally different reason. I looked at their opposition. Master Chief defeats the Flood virtually single handed. The Space Marines frequently lose to the Tyranids, and often only snatch victory by the barest scraps.

Tyranids are roughly on par with the Space Marines. Space Marines are far superior to Master Chief. Master Chief is superior to the Flood. Ergo, Tyranids are superior to the Flood. Quod Est Demonstratum.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Have Tyranid ever won against... well... anything really?


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Jimsolo wrote:
Tyranids are roughly on par with the Space Marines. Space Marines are far superior to Master Chief. Master Chief is superior to the Flood. Ergo, Tyranids are superior to the Flood. ..

Tyranids are not even close to be on par with Space Marines. Pretty much everytime Tyranids and Space Marines meet, Tyranids are sent packing, despite Tyranids always attacking in the gazillions and Space Marines being, usually, 1000 guys with some odd support thrown in.

Why are there two Halo vs 40k threads in 40k discussion right now? I enjoy both games but ugh.

Kilkrazy wrote:Moving to 40K General Discussions.

Thanks to this fool, only think people are saying is tyranids becuase their warhammer fanboys.


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Brother SRM wrote:Why are there two Halo vs 40k threads in 40k discussion right now? I enjoy both games but ugh.

Because a mod decided to move one to 40k dicussion from general discussion.


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Jimsolo wrote: Space Marines are far superior to Master Chief.
Of course, that's just my opinion.

Only in a chapter verusm Master Chief fight.


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Can someone please move this back to general discussion to make it fair and not just fanboys says Tyranids win. Please!


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dajobe wrote:This isnt even a debate lol, its just TYRANIDS OWN FLOOD

That doesn't even make sense!

Tyranids don't immediately recover biomass. They need time to bring it to the reclamation pools, break it down, and then regurgitate it as new Tyranids. For the Flood, sentient creature (or sentient creature's corpse) plus spore = new Flood, immediately. Honestly, I think this fight would go exceptionally poorly for the Tyranids at first, as higher Tyranid bioforms would prove to be highly susceptible to Flood infestation. Eventually however, the Hive Mind would wise up and begin deploying frightening amounts of Rippers and Spore Mines against the Flood infestation. The Flood would be devoured, though the Tyranids would probably end up abandoning the planet instead of risking Flood infestation by reclaiming the biomass of the Rippers.

And somewhere, watching from his Inquisitorial Observation Vessel, Krpytman wonders why he didn't think of this solution before...

What are the numbers of the Flood, compared to the Tyranids?

Luna Dragon wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

dajobe wrote:This isnt even a debate lol, its just TYRANIDS OWN FLOOD

That doesn't even make sense!

lol, up to that point there had been no opposition to the tyranid viewpoint. And (i myself am an ultramarine player), but saying that the tyranids have never won a battle is wrong, they are devastating the galaxy, Behemoth was barely beaten and (i may be wrong) leviathen and kraken are still tearin S**T up.

The consumption of biomass is obviously applicable for both sides. But the Infector forms of flood require the host to have a nervous system. If Tyranids have such a thing, then they're boned.

So what next? Covenant vs. Eldar? Forerunners vs. Old Ones?

No seriously.

Numbers.

I have never seen anything that even hinted the Flood are nearly as numerous as the Tyranids.

Not even mentioning that the Flood has nothing to compare to larger Tyranid organisms, such as Carnifexes.

Tyranids are undeniably more versatile starting out, and as others have brought up, it is not known if Tyranids can actually be absorbed and used by the Flood.

Numbers should give the Tyranids the win, IMO.

Void__Dragon wrote:No seriously.

Numbers.

I have never seen anything that even hinted the Flood are nearly as numerous as the Tyranids.

Not even mentioning that the Flood has nothing to compare to larger Tyranid organisms, such as Carnifexes.

Tyranids are undeniably more versatile starting out, and as others have brought up, it is not known if Tyranids can actually be absorbed and used by the Flood.

Numbers should give the Tyranids the win, IMO.

Gravemind? Provided they are able to, the flood could simply possess a Carnifex. Or, worse, a Bio-titan.

Kasrkai wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:No seriously.

Numbers.

I have never seen anything that even hinted the Flood are nearly as numerous as the Tyranids.

Not even mentioning that the Flood has nothing to compare to larger Tyranid organisms, such as Carnifexes.

Tyranids are undeniably more versatile starting out, and as others have brought up, it is not known if Tyranids can actually be absorbed and used by the Flood.

Numbers should give the Tyranids the win, IMO.

Gravemind? Provided they are able to, the flood could simply possess a Carnifex. Or, worse, a Bio-titan.

Carnifex can be infected and all Tyranids can infected and to evolve to be non-infeactable, they have to destroy their ablitily to evolve.

very close fight, but I think the nids could just outnumber them

Void__Dragon wrote:No seriously.

Numbers.

I have never seen anything that even hinted the Flood are nearly as numerous as the Tyranids.

Not even mentioning that the Flood has nothing to compare to larger Tyranid organisms, such as Carnifexes.

Tyranids are undeniably more versatile starting out, and as others have brought up, it is not known if Tyranids can actually be absorbed and used by the Flood.

Numbers should give the Tyranids the win, IMO.

Where do those inflated perceptions of Tyranid Numbers come from?

No Tyranid Hive Fleet so far has ever managed to attack more than one or two planets simultationously. Maybe 3 for the largets ones. Many were much smaller in scale too: Hive Fleet Gorgon ran head-on into a wall they couldn't beat the second they encountered an "outpost planet" of the Tau Empre? Leviathan got its ass handed at Stormvald by a single Eldar, Maugan Ra, all by himself. Kraken failed to destroy a single drifting Craftworld. Behemoth was sent packing by Ork Freebootaz. Hydra was made a Dark Eldar play-thing that was actually raided by the Dark Eldar(!), again not the most numerous race. Naga was the second Hive-fleet killed by Yriel. Hive Fleet Moloch was starved to death by Vostroyans for gods sake.

Nothing I see of Tyranids speak of insurmountable numbers. Indeed, overall, there's probably less Tyranids in 40K than there are Dark Eldar or Tau if any of these battles are a rough measure of a Hive Fleets capabilities; and there's only been what, 12 to 15 Hive Fleets if you count even all of the obscure ones. Compared to Tau Planets or Dark Elder Kabals out there, Tyranids are likely not even a fraction of Tau or Dark Eldar in numbers come to think of it. All Hive Fleets encountered so far taken TOGETHER are probably smaller than a single Black Crusade.

So we're back onto these kinds of threads now are we?

L. Wrex

Zweischneid wrote:Indeed, overall, there's probably less Tyranids in 40K than there are Dark Eldar or Tau if any of these battles are a rough measure of a Hive Fleets capabilities; and there's only been what, 12 to 15 Hive Fleets if you count even all of the obscure ones. Compared to Tau Planets or Dark Elder Kabals out there, Tyranids are likely not even a fraction of Tau or Dark Eldar in numbers come to think of it.

Well, that just takes the cake.

I've hard an amazing amount of crazy things, but the Tau outnumbering the Tyranids is the worst.

Nerivant wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Indeed, overall, there's probably less Tyranids in 40K than there are Dark Eldar or Tau if any of these battles are a rough measure of a Hive Fleets capabilities; and there's only been what, 12 to 15 Hive Fleets if you count even all of the obscure ones. Compared to Tau Planets or Dark Elder Kabals out there, Tyranids are likely not even a fraction of Tau or Dark Eldar in numbers come to think of it.

Well, that just takes the cake.

I've hard an amazing amount of crazy things, but the Tau outnumbering the Tyranids is the worst.

Well when you fail as hard as the nids do it doesnt take long before you become an endangered species.

Nerivant wrote:
Well, that just takes the cake.

I've hard an amazing amount of crazy things, but the Tau outnumbering the Tyranids is the worst.

Well, I am happy to entertain counter arguments. There are no exact measures on that.

But there's over 30 major Tau planets known by name in the fluff. Estimating conservatively 1 billion Tau per planet on average, that's 30 billion Tau out there, + their allies. And even a minor Tau World like Sha'draig has show to be capable of taking on an entire Hive Fleet, even cleansing a planet "overrun" by Tyranids completely and re-habitat it. And there's only what?, 12 or so Hive Fleets in total (and may of them, persumably, even smaller if they got annhiliated by comparatively/numerically "small" players in 40K like isolated Craftworlds, DE Raiders, Vostroyan outposts or Ork Freebooterz). Even if you are optimistic and count ever little gribbly, specialize Tyranid-micro organism, I fail to see how they could be much larger than the Tau.

A few things, Gorgon was tiny, a small Hive Fleet that consumed numerous worlds, only defeated by a joint force of Cadians and Tau.
Leviathan, was defeated on one planet by Maugan Mary-sue Ra, and is still going.
Kraken near annihilated Ilyanden, as in, it's pretty much dead, its population so low that the bulk of its armies are made of Wraithguard. It was defeated by a large Eldar fleet that arrived when it was already weakened and by a large Imperial force on Ichar IV.
Behemoth was sent packing by The Ultramarines, the freebootas were destroyed, along with a host of other planets.
Hydra was boarded by The Dark Eldar because it was in stasis. The Dark Eldar that boarded the ships were killed, the fleet survived.
Naga, actually destroyed 9 Eldar planets, a Craftworld, and several Eldar fleets before being destroyed.
Moloch was destroyed by a nuclear explosion, the surviving parts of the swarm, 15% of a swarm which stretched to the Horizon, died during the planets winter.
This is just a bit of clarification on Zweischneid's post. The rampant trolling present in it is frankly inexcusable and can't be argued with.

Want to count micro-organism? Quadrillions, uncountable numbers.

iproxtaco wrote:Want to count micro-organism? Quadrillions, uncountable numbers.

Source?

iproxtaco wrote:A few things, Gorgon was tiny, a small Hive Fleet that consumed numerous worlds, only defeated by a joint force of Cadians and Tau.
Leviathan, was defeated on one planet by Maugan Mary-sue Ra, and is still going.
Kraken near annihilated Ilyanden, as in, it's pretty much dead, its population so low that the bulk of its armies are made of Wraithguard. It was defeated by a large Eldar fleet that arrived when it was already weakened and by a large Imperial force on Ichar IV.
Behemoth was sent packing by The Ultramarines, the freebootas were destroyed, along with a host of other planets.
Hydra was boarded by The Dark Eldar because it was in stasis. The Dark Eldar that boarded the ships were killed, the fleet survived.
Naga, actually destroyed 9 Eldar planets, a Craftworld, and several Eldar fleets before being destroyed.
Moloch was destroyed by a nuclear explosion, the surviving parts of the swarm, 15% of a swarm which stretched to the Horizon, died during the planets winter.
This is just a bit of clarification on Zweischneid's post. The rampant trolling present in it is frankly inexcusable and can't be argued with.

Nothing what you say contradicts what I said. Yes, battles in 40K are always dramatic and close fought because.. well, it's a fictional setting and there isn't a single battle in the history of 40K ever that isn't dramatically closely fought. Still the "general scale" of things that Hive Fleets compare to are things like singular Tau Septs, Dark Eldar Raiders, Craftworlds, single Space Marine Chapters, etc.. That wouldn't change even if the Tyranids would have won a few of those battles. And taken, being generous, the known Tyranids to be 15 Hive Fleets, that's not "vast numbers" in the grand scheme of things 40K.

By the very nature of a Micro-organism there are Quadrillions of them, Tyranids release huge number into the atmosphere. In total, across all fleets, uncountable numbers.