Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nope, bikerboss is only for bikes. I forget if he works on infantry but hes usually nowhere near them due to the 14" movement.
Hence why i tend to suicide-missile him. Have him flank with cover so hes not getting shot at period and then dive at something.
Really wish there was a way to get more attacks w/o psykers though. 4 attacks does not feel like enough, and of course the weirdboy is never near him due to his speed.
If that trike didnt have that vehicle waaagh aura, i'd probably never use him. He doesnt even have the breaking heads ability which just baffles me.

I just remembered one important thing.

Never wrestle with pigs, you get both dirty and the pig enjoys it.


This said, anybody knows how the winners are playing the new winning list? Freebooterz + BM


I get that grots are fearless thanks to the warboss or the runtherd, my question is how do they score and do they jump/DS the tankabusta or Flashgitz?

 Vineheart01 wrote:

If that trike didnt have that vehicle waaagh aura, i'd probably never use him. He doesnt even have the breaking heads ability which just baffles me.

Oh wow he doesn't. Yeah that's just weird.
The Boss Nob upgrade doesn't have the Keeping Order rule either, which is also strange. GW gonna GW I guess.

demontalons wrote:
I wouldnt be too worried about the new Marines, they got more killy but theyre not more durable and Orks were either blowing them off the board with shooting or swamping them with numbers.

ANd to get the shiny bonuses they can only take marines, so no cheap loyal 32 or knights.

In regards to the extra attack, it really will only come into effect if you multicharge units, now the 2cp to interrupt can really hurt Orks. 6 man depleted ork squads are not going to want to charge a 5 man tac squad to tie them up.

Sorry but this is now patently false. 84pts of Tacs Vs 84pts of boyz. Boyz get 12 models, Marines get 7. Boyz and Marines are T4 with 1wound. Marines are 3+ while boyz are 6+ So to kill those 12 boyz outright takes 14 wounds from an AP0 weapon, to kill those 7 Marines it takes 21. So Space Marines are more durable pt for pt then Orkz, add in the fact that Tacs like to hide in cover because they can afford to and that math goes south really quick.

As far as damage output, if equipped with Shootas those Boyz are required to advance turn 1 to get within 18' range of the enemy which means hitting on 6s which in turn means 4 hits with S4 weapons. For Space Marines they are 24' range weapons from the start. If they stand still they are putting out 9-10 hits, if they move they are putting out 4-5. So the damage potential is roughly the same turn 1 unless SM player gets to stand still. Turn 2 the Orkz if they are lucky and the enemy close get 24 shots for 8 hits, the Marines stand still and get their 9-10 so they are better off again slightly.

So pt for pt the Space Marines are more durable AND better at ranged combat. In CC ork slugga boyz outperform SM's but lack the durability to stick around vs. a determined opponent. Overall, the recent buffs to tactical Marines have given them a massive unfair advantage Vs. Boyz to the point where a Green Tide list Vs. a SM gunline is just not possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Orks relied on characters before?
SSAG is the closest i'd say to be reliant on a character, and that massive reach protects him more than the grots infront of him.

In competitive games I have yet to not take 3 weirdboyz, a warboss on bike and a SSAG minimum, on top of that, taking 3 battalions means you need those HQs regardless which in turn means you focus your army around them. I have won many a game on the back of my weirdboys and my SSAG, not to mention watching my opponent get pissy that my Warboss on bike with relic klaw is slicing up vehicles like Tin Kanz

Deepstrike I guess. I use tankbustas such way and it works well. Same like with the lootas. Unit in the tellyporta is definitely out of LOS and could be placed well.

 Emicrania wrote:
I just remembered one important thing.
This said, anybody knows how the winners are playing the new winning list? Freebooterz + BM

Basically
Badrukk
SSAG
2*weirdboy
Mek KFF
Warboss
90-100 grots
15 tankabusta
10 Flashgitz
6/8 smashaguns
Some boyz or a DJ
Sometime a runtherd

I get that grots are fearless thanks to the warboss or the runtherd, my question is how do they score and do they jump/DS the tankabusta or Flashgitz?

 Tomsug wrote:
Deepstrike I guess. I use tankbustas such way and it works well. Same like with the lootas. Unit in the tellyporta is definitely out of LOS and could be placed well.

I would go SSAG + 2 SAGs and drop Tankbustas. Extra points for more smasha guns. You can't grot shield both Tankbustas and flashgits. Fearless grots thanks to the freebooter relic for one turn, warboss for the other turns (+ runtherd if you want 2 "fearless" auras to sprad out better across the board).

If i had enough grots i would try it out, just to try and prove to myself that I was wrong about Flash gits (though that type of list probably needs a lot of practice to even remotely work)

 flandarz wrote:
Also a bit more productive: anyone else feel like Ghaz shouldn't be Kultur locked? The dude is the biggest and baddest Ork around, finding folks to follow him that ain't just Goffz should be well within canon. I also feel like he needs some more... oomph to really make him worth the pricetag they're asking. Maybe some "auto pass morale" type of aura, or extra CP like G-Man.

He does have an auto pass morale aura though

But yeah, I agree. Adding him to an army is easy, as he can just join with a goff weirdboy and goff gretchin. But he needs a transport to get anywhere, but that requires that transport to be goff as well. Then the other passengers need to be goff as well, plus you need a goff KFF to protect the transport, and so on.

In a buggy-heavy army list I plan to run soon, I just put him in a goff bonekrusha with some boyz and hope that a Morkanaut, first turn charging bikes and buggies will draw enough fire from it. It might just become a crater T1 because it's the only think without a 5++...

Maybe they should just give him all clan keywords, like Abaddon has all chaos keywords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Emicrania wrote:
I just remembered one important thing.

Never wrestle with pigs, you get both dirty and the pig enjoys it.


This said, anybody knows how the winners are playing the new winning list? Freebooterz + BM

Spoiler:

Basically
Badrukk
SSAG
2*weirdboy
Mek KFF
Warboss
90-100 grots
15 tankabusta
10 Flashgitz
6/8 smashaguns
Some boyz or a DJ
Sometime a runtherd

I get that grots are fearless thanks to the warboss or the runtherd, my question is how do they score and do they jump/DS the tankabusta or Flashgitz?

According to one guy on reddit spectating the game, part of the gretchin move forward with the flash gits and KFF to protect them, the tank bustas tellyport in as suicide unit.

First time somebody went with that list they won a Major in June I believe, since than more and more People are playing it and winning with it.
I believe is a lot about right positioning and counter deploy.T1 flashgitz will hit still on 4+ if you proc the trait, 3+ t2 .
Ds tankabusta with more dakka and showing off are no goddamn joke.

I have 100 grots, 50 painted, I will try to see how they look like on the battlefield

But yeah, is a really different list and not everyone can play it, that is for sure. At the same time, good players are using it and winning with it. Luck helps you only to a certain point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jid I got the hint and added a spoiler, I hate do that on mobile


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Man I really need a streaming of Gencon or anywhere else they played that list

And how do they get FG to range? Just 24”. Da jump? Lost the grots and kff... or just simple walk in the midle?

They walk into the middle. Most tournament missions punish castling up and many top lists actually come close to you, most eldar lists for example.

Having seen a post earlier about boss nobs being able to take kombi-skorchas, has anyone really implemented this?

I'm contemplating a minimal unit of stormboys with a kombi-skorcha bossnob. 64 points for a really fast unit to hunt down weaker characters using their 12" move, jumpiness and an autohitting D6 shot gun, followed by a charge. pretty much anything that aims at it could have something better to shoot. I've even considered putting them in a trukk for a moderately safe turn 1 move and some shielding from the shooting - depending on the board layout (have something else which could use the trukk).

Tomsug wrote:And how do they get FG to range? Just 24”. Da jump? Lost the grots and kff... or just simple walk in the midle?

KFF grots and Flashgitz walking, backed up by gunz and DJ to proc +1. Suicide tankabusta T2. if they survive,, tankabusta bomb t3

Jidmah wrote:They walk into the middle. Most tournament missions punish castling up and many top lists actually come close to you, most eldar lists for example.

Still I would love to see how he plays it, all the major GT have "L" shaped LOS block that helps, but still, indirect fire is gonna be a massacre.

some bloke wrote:Having seen a post earlier about boss nobs being able to take kombi-skorchas, has anyone really implemented this?

I'm contemplating a minimal unit of stormboys with a kombi-skorcha bossnob. 64 points for a really fast unit to hunt down weaker characters using their 12" move, jumpiness and an autohitting D6 shot gun, followed by a charge. pretty much anything that aims at it could have something better to shoot. I've even considered putting them in a trukk for a moderately safe turn 1 move and some shielding from the shooting - depending on the board layout (have something else which could use the trukk).

I tried to play Sboyz for a while, unfortunately they are not worth it. You might whiff and waste a unit doing nothing. If they had 5+ or any other bonus more than 12 " move and DS they might be usefull, as they are right now :S
Dunno....



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, Orks are 3rd best faction in ITC in the latest 8 weeks. Words are wind my friend.

I don't really think it's a good investment of points. For an MSU of Stormboyz with a Boss Nob, you're only gonna be looking at maybe 1 or 2 damage when they shoot and probably about the same in CC.

4 Sluggas, hitting on 5s, Wounding on 3s (against T3) and after a 4+ Save, is only gonna get 0.44 Wounds.

1 Shoota, hitting on 6s, Wounding on 3s, and after a 4+ Save, is gonna get you 0.1 Wound.

1 Skorcha, Wounding on 3s, and after a 5+ Save (after AP), is gonna net you 1.2 Wounds.

That's a total of 1.74 Wounds

After getting into CC, 4 S4 Choppas and 1 S5 Choppa are gonna get you 2.4 Wounds.

So, basically, you spent 62 pts (9ppm for Stormboyz plus 17 for the Kombi-Skorcha, unless I'm missing something) to deal a little over 4 Wounds against a pretty ideal (and weak) target. My personal opinion is that you'd be better off spending those points elsewhere.

Second that, I personally invite any news and changes, at the same time, if you wanna play at least competitive, you MUST use math to understand the potential.
Please do not trow some dice once and think that is a fact. Use apps and sites to understand how this game works or you WILL be disappointed.

Even if you don't use math, we have quite a few models which have/can be fast flamers - Wartrike, Mek or Warboss on Warbike, Kustom Bosta Blasta, Chinork... all those do way more than those stormboyz for similar points

Heck, you could just run skorchas.

Unfortunately stormboyz just can't really justify their 9ppm cost. 7 ppm would make them good. Right now they are only useful as a cheap brigade slot filler that can be useful in grabbing objectives.

I am really hoping that the next chapter approved will fix our entire fast attack section.

I used to think Deffkoptas were priced pretty cheap until i started collecting admech.

Deffkopta w/ rokkits, 54pts T5 4W 4+ save with Fly 14" move, 3/5 WS/BS
Ironstrider w/ Twin Autos, 60pts T6 6W 4+ save with 10" move, 3/3 WS/BS

Only melee difference is the kopta gets D3 hits per its 2 attacks...whooptiedoo.

Once i saw that i immediately changed my opinion on the deffkopta lol. 6pt difference for so much stuff.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I used to think Deffkoptas were priced pretty cheap until i started collecting admech.

Deffkopta w/ rokkits, 54pts T5 4W 4+ save with Fly 14" move, 3/5 WS/BS
Ironstrider w/ Twin Autos, 60pts T6 6W 4+ save with 10" move, 3/3 WS/BS

Only melee difference is the kopta gets D3 hits per its 2 attacks...whooptiedoo.

Once i saw that i immediately changed my opinion on the deffkopta lol. 6pt difference for so much stuff.

Yeah, the Index KMB version is just so much better. Shaving off 15 points just helps immensely. Combo with Deathskull, and now you have (effectively) BS4, re-roll to wound, re-roll damage plasma, and it becomes more consistent in CC with similar re-rolls, and an invul save to boot.

Only reasons i dont use the KMB version is i really do not feel like hacking up my AOBR koptas and i usually play badmoonz, which random KMBs arent that useful for (as evident by my KFF Mek on Bike almost never landing a shot)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Only reasons i dont use the KMB version is i really do not feel like hacking up my AOBR koptas and i usually play badmoonz, which random KMBs arent that useful for (as evident by my KFF Mek on Bike almost never landing a shot)

No, that's totally fair. Deffkoptas probably aren't worth it without Deathskulls imo (re-rolls really help), unless you are filling out a brigade or something.

Some units just excel under certain Kulturs, and are otherwise pretty trash (I wouldn't take Lootas as non-Bad Moonz, for instance).

I disagree. Whilst Lootas are optimal in Bad Moons lists, they still have their uses in other factions. They do have 48" range at 2 damage per shot, making them good at camping objectives and as fire support units for putting some damage on key targets.

From my own experience, you don't always have to kill an enemy unit to make it no longer a threat. If you can kill enough of them in a squad you can lower their damage output such that they are effectively harmless. That's what lootas are for. Of course, this tactic doesn't work at all against Necrons.

It's the number of shots that's an issue; if Lootas were *consistently* 2 shots each, this might be more true. If you happen to get 1 shot each, hitting 5-6 times on average is probably not even going to dent anything.

Bad Moonz greatly increase their damage output by letting them shoot twice (effectively, more than doubling their average shots, because of re-rolls of 1s). Freebootas might do okay too, but their bonus to hit will not be anywhere near as good as shooting twice.

Losing that stratagem is a big deal. Although they can camp objectives at a nice distance, I'm not sure how you're keeping your Lootas alive very long (bad saves, expensive models, grots are not going to live very long). They evaporate if they ever get directly targeted.

I think its safer to assume you need to maximize their damage output in the first couple of turns. If the BMs ones live longer, even better.

Survivability is the main thing to me.
Cover being a modifier means things that arent sitting at either really high toughness, more than 2 wounds, or 4+ armor base in cover are pretty easy to kill with minimal effort.
Thus, if i take lootas, i must maximize their output. Shoot again strat single handedly made them viable, they didnt change between editions (cost or slot or power, other than Autocannon profile across the board) and they went from 100% useless to pretty solid if not amazing as Bad Moonz.
As with anything ork, if its a major threat and isnt just that because of the sheer number of bodies (boyz), its stratagem dependent to stay alive, barely cheaper than other codex's version of that unit, and paper thin if caught out of protection.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Survivability is the main thing to me.
Cover being a modifier means things that arent sitting at either really high toughness, more than 2 wounds, or 4+ armor base in cover are pretty easy to kill with minimal effort.
Thus, if i take lootas, i must maximize their output. Shoot again strat single handedly made them viable, they didnt change between editions (cost or slot or power, other than Autocannon profile across the board) and they went from 100% useless to pretty solid if not amazing as Bad Moonz.
As with anything ork, if its a major threat and isnt just that because of the sheer number of bodies (boyz), its stratagem dependent to stay alive, barely cheaper than other codex's version of that unit, and paper thin if caught out of protection.

Also fair. It's ill advised to take multiple units of Lootas now.

It would be nice if grot shields could actually protect multiple units a turn (or grot shields wasn't kultur specific). By even taking Lootas, you probably exclude yourself from other units, because you similarly can't protect them with grots.

Its part of the reason i mostly run mechanical orks. Mecha orks doesnt devour CP to do anything, actually aside from Ramming Speed or Dread Waagh's fire again stratagem...kinda dont use any. I tend to only use More Dakka if theres neg to hits involved.
Nothing on foot except Boyz can do anything without just devouring CP. Im not even a fan of using tankbustas unless i got my gargsquig for them to sit in (BW is too easy to pop before they do anything)
Even MANz kinda demand tellyport at minimum, which is still a lot of CP in the end.

That said, making a CP Battery is pretty cheap for us. 152 pts for +5 CP is a solid investment, even for mechanized lists. Command Rerolls and Tellyporta are useful things for mechanized Orkz. And Prepared Positions can be a God-send if you don't get first turn.

 flandarz wrote:
That said, making a CP Battery is pretty cheap for us. 152 pts for +5 CP is a solid investment, even for mechanized lists. Command Rerolls and Tellyporta are useful things for mechanized Orkz. And Prepared Positions can be a God-send if you don't get first turn.

Isn't the minimum for a batallion 214 points?

154 points

2* weirboy
3*10 grots

Weirdboyz are 62 points each...

Weirdboy 62
Gretchin 3

2 WBs
30 Gretchin


124+90=214

Sorry. I forgot you needed two HQs for a Battalion. For some reason. Still a reasonable investment, even for a 1k list.