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Title says it all, Do you get a flickerfield save vs rolling a 1 when going into/out of terrain?

Damage results are not wounds/hits. Which is what FF works against.

A Flickerfield is an invulnerable save (there are no caveats or exceptions about when/where one can be used).

Dangerous Terrain causes an "Immobilised damage result."

The Flickerfield can be used.

Vehicles take saves vs glancing or penetrating hits. Dangerous Terrain causes neither. No save.

Edit: That's assuming it follows the procedure outlined for vehicles getting cover saves. You can disagree but then it's on you to show me how the FF invulnerable save would work.

Sadly, yes, those damn flickerfields are good for just about anything that you can throw at those DE gunboats.

Spetulhu wrote:Vehicles take saves vs glancing or penetrating hits. Dangerous Terrain causes neither. No save.

Edit: That's assuming it follows the procedure outlined for vehicles getting cover saves. You can disagree but then it's on you to show me how the FF invulnerable save would work.

There are no actual rules (that I can remember) dealing with vehicles and invulnerable saves. Technically speaking, Flickerfields are useless. In practice, I think it's safe to say that anything a model with wounds could take an invulnerable save against can be saved by a Flickerfield.

bushido wrote:A Flickerfield is an invulnerable save (there are no caveats or exceptions about when/where one can be used).

Dangerous Terrain causes an "Immobilised damage result."

The Flickerfield can be used.

...Well, actually vehicles are not allowed to take invulnerable saves at all per RAW "If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it" or cover saves inless obscured.
GW has repeatedly ruled in their update douments that various units in the game can use their save reguardless, indicating that this is how they wish most situations to be ruled.
There is however no indication that one can take a save against something which happens as a result of failing a save.
"Roll a D6 for each shot that glanced or penetrated the vehicle’s armour, apply any appropriate modifiers (they are all cumulative) and look up the result on the Vehicle Damage table below."

bushido wrote:In practice, I think it's safe to say that anything a model with wounds could take an invulnerable save against can be saved by a Flickerfield.

And vehicles save vs Glancing/Penetrating hits where other models save vs wounds. If it succeeds on the save the hit is discarded and no roll on the damage table is made.

If a vehicle didn't suffer a glance/penetrate there's nothing it can use a save against.

ChrisCP wrote:

...Well, actually vehicles are not allowed to take invulnerable saves at all per RAW "If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it" or cover saves inless obscured.
GW has repeatedly ruled in their update douments that various units in the game can use their save reguardless, indicating that this is how they wish most situations to be ruled.
There is however no indication that one can take a save against something which happens as a result of failing a save.
"Roll a D6 for each shot that glanced or penetrated the vehicle’s armour, apply any appropriate modifiers (they are all cumulative) and look up the result on the Vehicle Damage table below."

Yeah. Since invulnerable saves for vehicles "don't exist" I can't say for sure how it's supposed to work.

Well, they do exist - see Bjorn. Essentially they work in exactly the same was as cover saves for when you are obscured.

SO, assuming FF can be used at all, they only work to negate penetrating or glancing hits. An immobilised result is neither of these results, therefore the FF cannot be used.

Agreed. A vehicle failing a difficult terrain test is not hit, it is simply immobilized.

This is different from suffering a wound and taking an invulnerable save against it.

the dark eldar book just indicates it has an invulnerable save, and does not specifiy at what point the save kicks in. ive seen diffrent methods of rolling the save. some people save the glance/pen and acccept whatever roll comes after ie: 3 pens and 5 glances, FF saves 2 pens and 1 glance, so the attacking player rolls his 1 pen and 4 glance results and damage applies as rolled. in this example FF dosent work vrs DT immobilized result.

the second method is to save each individual damage result. so hits, determine glance/pen, determine effects, FF then saved against each effect. so using above generates 1 wrecked, 1 wep destroyed, 2 immobilized and 3 stunned. the FF would have to declare the result as its being saved (generally starting with the wrecked) in this instance the FF would work on the DT result as your saving against the actual damage result.


personally i play it the first example, as its less fuss. but to each his own.

otherwise, FF can be used vrs CC hits, ramming, and anything else that cover does not provide for. invulnerable is just that. if a unit of infantry fails a dangerous terrain, they take wounds, but get invun saves. one could argue that the vehicle taking an immobilized result is simaler, and therfore its invun save would apply.

Except there are only two methods for vehicles taking saves of any kind, and both kick in at the pen/glance stage. So use that.

DarthSpader wrote:the dark eldar book just indicates it has an invulnerable save, and does not specifiy at what point the save kicks in. ive seen diffrent methods of rolling the save. some people save the glance/pen and acccept whatever roll comes after ie: 3 pens and 5 glances, FF saves 2 pens and 1 glance, so the attacking player rolls his 1 pen and 4 glance results and damage applies as rolled. in this example FF dosent work vrs DT immobilized result.

the second method is to save each individual damage result. so hits, determine glance/pen, determine effects, FF then saved against each effect. so using above generates 1 wrecked, 1 wep destroyed, 2 immobilized and 3 stunned. the FF would have to declare the result as its being saved (generally starting with the wrecked) in this instance the FF would work on the DT result as your saving against the actual damage result.


personally i play it the first example, as its less fuss. but to each his own.

otherwise, FF can be used vrs CC hits, ramming, and anything else that cover does not provide for. invulnerable is just that. if a unit of infantry fails a dangerous terrain, they take wounds, but get invun saves. one could argue that the vehicle taking an immobilized result is simaler, and therfore its invun save would apply.

That second method is completely against the rules. Read page 62, the paragraph right after the bullet points. That's the only way to resolve vehicle saves. Either invul saves follow that method (thus saves are taken against HITS, not damage results), or they don't work at all.

Listen to Nos, he has it right. Flickerfields don't provide a save against an Immobilized damage result. They provide a save against a penetrating/glancing hit, which a failed DT test is NOT.

I guess the problem is that there are no rules for vehicles and inv saves. Only cover saves are described the page you provided.
Reading rulebook I would think that vehicles are not allowed to take inv saves at all. Determining how exactly inv saves work (by the vehicle rules in rulebook) is kinda impossible.
This means that those method is against rules like any other.

Yeah, I think this one is completely open to house rule either way.

Do individual models get to take Inv saves against dangerous terrain tests? Like, if you have a Farseer on a bike?

Macok - did you not read the thread?
There are rules for vehicles and inv saves; Bjorn. Tells you exactly how to use them.

So, either you believe all non-bjorn vehicle inv saves do nothing, which is an absurd position to hold in a new army book, as well as all non-obscured cover saves doing nothing, ditto absurd, you just follow the mechanics laid out.

Is it strictly in the rulebook? No. Doesnt actually make any difference to how its played though

If only the Titanic had a flickerfield...

Macok wrote:I guess the problem is that there are no rules for vehicles and inv saves. Only cover saves are described the page you provided.
Reading rulebook I would think that vehicles are not allowed to take inv saves at all. Determining how exactly inv saves work (by the vehicle rules in rulebook) is kinda impossible.

Not really. The rule on page 62 says that a special rule or a piece of wargear can confer an ability to a vehicle.
Granted it goes on to talk about making the vehicle count as obscured and giving it a cover save.
But the precedence is set that a piece of wargear can give the ability.
In the case of flickerfields, it gives the Dark Eldar vehicle a 5+ invulnerable save.
This save would be taken against each hit on the vehicle before any damage rolls are made.