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I think the title neatly sums it up, but the main question is this: what is the point of a missile launcher-mounted tank that has missiles with stats?

Killing low toughness large model count units. i.e. Gretchin

That is the only use I can think of.

To provide mobile artillery support for Space Marines?

Ignoring cover saves on pesky units like Imperial Guard Vets with camo cloaks.

You know, I never even stopped to think about those. I just knew I didn't want one lol. Although if I had to guess, I'd say it was the only hope against something my friend mentioned in 4th gen called "Fish of Fury" when Tau players would place devilfish transports in a wedge and make an assault-proof sniper bunker for their fire warriors. He said only armies that had artillery had a chance of breaking them, and even then the odds weren't great. As for what they're used for now though, I'm not entirely sure.

Killing hordes of low toughness and low armor save units, like Ork boyz and Guardsmen. You know, something that tactical Marines can do exactly as well, and a Thunderfire cannon can do much better for 15 more points.

It is very useful vs eldar, as every unit, just about, can have a warlock with conceal along

I can think of a few other uses too, but i'll grant you there are better options in the dex.

the more armour save they take the more they will fail them. and that is the tactics on a whrilwind

Brother SRM wrote:Killing hordes of low toughness and low armor save units, like Ork boyz and Guardsmen. You know, something that tactical Marines can do exactly as well, and a Thunderfire cannon can do much better for 15 more points.

i like my thundercannon as well, i recommend it over whirlwhind

They used to be a lot better relative to the other things in the SM armory... 5th edition was cruel to them. Now heavy slots are too valuable to spend on a whirlwind (mostly). If you could take them in a squadron for example, you'd see more of them as using the slot would be worth it.

In fluff? Provide mobile artillery and AA support to the Marines.

In game? Kill low toughhness, low save infantry, and serve as AA defense in Apoc.

*Post containing lackluster points redacted*

To sum up, why use it when there are better things in the Heavy Support Slot

It seems like a bunch of people are claiming the Thunderfire Cannon is superior to the Whirlwind, but I like artillery pieces that can move at a decent pace, aren't hingent upon a separate model staying alive to be able to fire, and can survive a glancing hit without dying instantly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the artillery rules pretty nasty? Is it really that much better than the tank?

Dont have my SM codex with me today, brought my IG one instead . But if i remember looking at their stats i just liked the Thunderfire more than whirlwind but cant really put any facts behind it now...

Stats on the gun aren't everything.

Whirlwinds lack punch, true, but have an AV and mobility that TF cannons lack. They are not to shabby at evaporating hordes like orks and nids.

Hit a whirlwind with a unit of Burnaboyz firing at it's nose, then do the same thing to the Thunderfire and crew hiding out behind a wall...

They both have their uses, though most people seem to prefer TF cannons or other HS, which is fair enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. Burnaboyz provided as off the cuff example- feel free to substitute other S4 blast/template unpleasantnesses

I haven't used either to be honest, and I certainly grant that the Thunderfire Cannon has more of a "wowbang" factor behind it, but the artillery rules make it seem so fragile.

Whirlwinds are awesome guys. Space marines can't really reach out and touch infantry in cover on the other side of the board in any other way. Okay frag missile spam, but it requires LOS and a missile battery costs like twice as much as a whirlwind. Maybe we can get some mathhammer on frag blasts vs. castellan missiles against light infantry squads of 5, 10 and 20 men in cover.

Saying that tactical squads handle light infantry fine with bolters is cute and all but when you want to dig stuff out, their range is half of a whirlwind's. Actually, they will probably want to move while firing so it's more like 18". Or I guess like 38" over two turns if they have a rhino, but a flamer template won't reach that far so I still think the whirlwind wins out on kills. Assuming that it hits, which statistically it should have by the third shooting phase when the tactical flamer is in range.

That's its only weakness really, if you place it safely then you can't subtract BS from the scatter roll, making it around half as accurate as otherwise normal for space marines. For a tidy sum and a HS slot though, it can do a number on some armies.

Not sure I'd call it a weakness but the HS slot thing is probably why none takes them. It's understandable, they're pretty much luxury units. However, if you've got two hybrid preds, three riflemen and three typhoon squadrons already, I'd argue that a whirlwind will serve you better. And if you're not using all your HS anyway, it's pretty cheap for what it does.

Got a tau gunline sniping your marines? There's a whirlwind for that.

Got hordes of orks running up to kill your tactical marines? There's a whirlwind for that.

Got a bunch of IG Vets holding up on an objective? there's a whirlwind for that.

Basically anything you don't want to directly approach, use a whirlwind. Whrilwind makes tau players cry since their kroot don't get a cover save and their firewarriors can't get an armor save. I use a whirlwind with my Raptor Legion (blood angels). First I use a lascannon/missile launcher stormraven to take out any broadsides and heavy support, then the whirlwind chews up any infantry left. Works incredibly against any non 3+ save army.

More than one person has said "mobile". They can't move and shoot.

Comedy

DarknessEternal wrote:More than one person has said "mobile". They can't move and shoot.

I was referring to the fluff for the Whirlwind.

DarknessEternal wrote:More than one person has said "mobile". They can't move and shoot.

Not in game terms, but with artillery 'mobile' tends to mean 'shoot and scoot' which the Whirlwind is omre than capable of doing. It can shoot its missiles and just start rolling again.

Just curious, but would a BA whirlwind be able to move 6" and shoot? don't have my rulebook at hand.

Whirlwinds can move and shoot, just not as a barrage. As an ordnance barrage weapon it has the option to fire directly, in which case it acts just like a normal ordnance weapon. When doing this regular Whirlwinds can shoot at combat speed, BA at cruising speed. As fast vehicles BA whirlwinds can in fact fire barrages while moving at combat speed.

As far as i remember the bit on ordinance barrages says that the vehicle cannot move at all and still fire an ordinance barrage.

I don't think being fast would change this, but feel free to prove me wrong. I'm not seeing anything in the BA codex that negates the rule requiring the Ordinance Barrage weapon to remain stationary if firing as a barrage.

You could try the main rulebook in the section on fast vehicles shooting. Page 70, the rule makes specific note of ordnance barrage.

Fair enough

Thanks for the point I was working from memory, as my rulebook is at the other end of the country right now