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would it be wrong to place 3 Cannons in such a way that my Master Engineer can use the Master of Ballistics skill in the FAQ on an all of them, then roll 3 artillery dice at once and chose one that misfires to re-roll?

I'd probably try it on someone at least once regardless of the reply, but still...

That would be illegal. You fire one machine at a time, not all at once as they are not a single unit.

I'd probably try it on someone at least once regardless of the reply, but still...

I am curious about this statement. I could understand if it was a rule where there was some legitimate issue with wording, or an issue with how it actually works in game, but this one is clear cut.

As far as the Master Engineer goes, it spells it out in the FAQ. One War Machine per turn may reroll either the scatter or the artillery die. Each War Machine is its own unit, and must resolve its fire before the next may fire.

Playing it the way you suggest has a huge impact on the game. If you rolled poorly for a cannon, but it was still a hit, you would have to consider using your reroll for a better shot, or saving it for a misfire. If you roll all 3 at once, you can then pick the worst of the shots and use your reroll on that. Its clearly a violation of the rules, and one that would benefit you greatly.

If you are suggesting that you intend to tell your opponent before the game "The rules say..... I wish to play it in this manner....." and then they agree to it, thats fine. If you plan on just playing it as such, without first being given permission by your opponent to play it as such, then you are cheating (and I hate to use that phrase, but there is no other way to put it).

I am also curious about that statement. To me, it says, "Damn the rules - I'm going to see what I can get away with."

One at a time.
You can choose to use the re-roll on any one of the cannons, but you must resolve each cannons one at a time.

-Matt

Manfred von Drakken wrote:I am also curious about that statement. To me, it says, "Damn the rules - I'm going to see what I can get away with."

yes, exactly. but I won't argue with anyone who says I can't and i wouldn't use it on a litle kid, just people my age.

So youre going to attempt to cheat, just not push it if people call you on it?

Thats how this reads.

and you interpret it correctly. I'm not a nice guy unless I'm buying people free stuff, which I do in the most unfriendly way I can.

I don't recall using any shady moves past my first year of gaming. the only reason I bring this up is because I used to think the Master Engineer was near useless, might as well get another cannon or mortar, eh?

now I just need a Master Engineer

and you interpret it correctly. I'm not a nice guy unless I'm buying people free stuff, which I do in the most unfriendly way I can.

Buying people stuff in an unfriendly way does not make you a nice guy. You can also be a jerk and still play by the rules. Your assertation that "not a nice guy" = a cheater is false. Thats a way for you to justify to yourself that you are attempting to cheat another player out of what is supposed to be a fun gaming experience.

I've seen plenty of jerks who still play by the rules. I may not play them again, but someone who blatantly attempts to cheat, thats something different entirely. I could go on about what your purpose in the hobby is if you intend to cheat at the games, or about how immature you are coming off as (although I am sure you do not care). In the end I simply state that I am very happy that my gaming group does not include players like you.

huh? I didn't say that being cheater is the equivalent of anything. it's like saying that you claim maturity = fun/happiness or something.

and I find that people appreciate me buying them a Vendetta/Trygon/box of Harlequins/etc and I expect nothing in return... except the temporary appreciation of course.

man, I don't even have 3 artillery pieces. much less a real army to go with them.

You implied that its ok for you to attempt to cheat because you are not a nice guy. Your reason/excuse call it whatever you like, is that because you are not a nice guy, there is nothing wrong with your attempt to cheat.

I also never claimed that maturity = fun. Maturity is recognizing this is a game, the player across from you is also playing a game, and by playing together you are entering a social contract to play a game according to rules laid out in a book. I am saying that someone that attempts to cheat at a table top game like warhammer, is exhibiting immature behaviour.

The reason I (and most everyone else) play this game is because it is fun. If people do not enjoy the game then I question why they would spend the money this hobby demands on something they aren't having fun with. Having fun can be different for different people. For some, its modelling. For others its the competitive nature of play. Some players enjoy the fluff, and will play to see a story come to life. However, someone who attempts to cheat, and knows full well that they are attempting to cheat, are actually impacting the fun of others.

I'm sure people would appreciate you buying them a Vendetta. You did say that you are not a nice guy, and when you buy something for someone you do it in a "not nice way". I have no clue what that is, but I could hazard a guess if i was pressed to. I am not sure why this even matters to be honest. This does not excuse the cheating behaviour.

As I already said, you have admitted in this thread you are willing to attempt to cheat an opponent for no other reason than you want to see what you can get away with. If you do not understand how that is immature behaviour, then we do not share social conventions for acceptable behaviour while engaged in a social activity.

I said maturity=fun in comparison to cheater=not nice. meaning, I never said what you said I said and you didn't say what I said you said.

but naturally, if I ever did try to cheat, I would do it as casually as pssible, likely get caught on a simple thng and play normally. I hope no one behaves like you have, reacting to my unpleasantries by geting all uppity and turning it into an argument. you may not think you're uppity but if you start telling people what's right over something that's over then there are alot more words to descibe that.

I only brought up me buying gifts in comparison to my otherwise bad attitude (and because I'm pompous) to say I'm not evil. I didn't mean that it was some important redeeming factor of my personality. I only replied to your reply on the point after.

but yes, like so many people before you, you are correct in your over-simplified analysis of my personality and that we are 2 very different people who view social interactions and the 'purpose' of the game as such, at the very least anyway.

This thread is doing my head in.

Cheating at Warhammer is never OK. Why you'd expect strangers on a forum to support your plan to cheat is kind of beyond me.

Edit: And if I've somehow misconstrued what you've said here, then I apologize. But I don't think I have.

well, I wasn't expecting any reaction to my nonsense, I intended it to be taken nonchalantly but the back and forth reponses got out of hand. I'll try to keep this response in mind so I don't come off as a troll again.

sorry.

Lotet wrote:well, I wasn't expecting any reaction to my nonsense, I intended it to be taken nonchalantly but the back and forth reponses got out of hand. I'll try to keep this response in mind so I don't come off as a troll again.

sorry.

No no no no NO!
there is zero reason for anyone to take what you have said 'nonchalantly' at all.
If you are a cheater, you are a cheater and should be treated as such.
This:

but naturally, if I ever did try to cheat, I would do it as casually as pssible, likely get caught on a simple thng and play normally. I hope no one behaves like you have, reacting to my unpleasantries by geting all uppity and turning it into an argument. you may not think you're uppity but if you start telling people what's right over something that's over then there are alot more words to descibe that.

is not acceptable.

People have every right to call you out and get 'uppity' about cheating.

You are now the one and only person on my 'list', congratulations.

@Lotet
haha, you made the "list"

Honestly the worst part is that most opponents won't know what the rules are in all army books (which you have made doubly true by trying to abuse a rule that has been anticipated for vagueness and clairified in a FAQ).
So unless you are playing another meanspirited cheater that has read the FAQ they probably won't know to call you on it.
I agree that if your opponent conscents to your false interpretations then go right ahead... But setting up a rigged game amongst 'friends' you buy stuff for... I mean... Who would want to do that unless they were using your false 'kindness' for free stuff? Or why would you want to screw your friends? Either way it seems that you might want to re-evaluate the way you interact socially, or if that is the norm evaluate who you interact with

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Lotet wrote:well, I wasn't expecting any reaction to my nonsense, I intended it to be taken nonchalantly but the back and forth reponses got out of hand. I'll try to keep this response in mind so I don't come off as a troll again.

sorry.

No no no no NO!
there is zero reason for anyone to take what you have said 'nonchalantly' at all.
If you are a cheater, you are a cheater and should be treated as such.
This:

but naturally, if I ever did try to cheat, I would do it as casually as pssible, likely get caught on a simple thng and play normally. I hope no one behaves like you have, reacting to my unpleasantries by geting all uppity and turning it into an argument. you may not think you're uppity but if you start telling people what's right over something that's over then there are alot more words to descibe that.

is not acceptable.

People have every right to call you out and get 'uppity' about cheating.

You are now the one and only person on my 'list', congratulations.

err, yeah, I know that NOW. so I'm going to change my future posts to reflect how the strongly opinionated people on the internet react. well, probably, it's not an easy thing to know how people will behave when you're not face to face with them... after this post.

Kiwidru wrote:Honestly the worst part is that most opponents won't know what the rules are in all army books (which you have made doubly true by trying to abuse a rule that has been anticipated for vagueness and clairified in a FAQ).
So unless you are playing another meanspirited cheater that has read the FAQ they probably won't know to call you on it.
I agree that if your opponent conscents to your false interpretations then go right ahead... But setting up a rigged game amongst 'friends' you buy stuff for... I mean... Who would want to do that unless they were using your false 'kindness' for free stuff? Or why would you want to screw your friends? Either way it seems that you might want to re-evaluate the way you interact socially, or if that is the norm evaluate who you interact with

sheesh man. it's not like I play against fools or that I try to abuse every little thing I can invent through the power of my malevolent imagination.

at first it was accurate interpretations on my intentions. now though, it's people creating some sort of evil persona of me to easily argue against. the only cheating I've done in the last few years is moving a fence (representing the table edge) about 4mm to the side so I didn't get a deepstrike mishap in for my fully tooled up Tau Command Unit in 40K, the edge wasn't even a straight line to begin with, I was really making it straighter. but I'm sure alot of you don't give a damn about the circumstances and will (and have) quickly judge someone with a handy lable that encompasses a broad range of people.

You stated you would attempt to cheat by knowingly breaking the rules

Its difficult not to categorise you after making that statement.

If you can explain what "mitigation" ciircumstance could provide, that would help. Instead you're railing against people stating a proven fact.....

Lotet wrote:at first it was accurate interpretations on my intentions. now though, it's people creating some sort of evil persona of me to easily argue against. the only cheating I've done in the last few years is moving a fence (representing the table edge) about 4mm to the side so I didn't get a deepstrike mishap in for my fully tooled up Tau Command Unit in 40K, the edge wasn't even a straight line to begin with, I was really making it straighter. but I'm sure alot of you don't give a damn about the circumstances and will (and have) quickly judge someone with a handy lable that encompasses a broad range of people.

Once a cheater, always a cheater. Publicly stating an intent to cheat does not endear you to the public.

nosferatu1001 wrote:So youre going to attempt to cheat, just not push it if people call you on it?

Thats how this reads.

And once the D-Bag confirmed this, the thread just should have been killed.

All though I do like the part later in the thread where the cheater belittles how people act to each other over the internet, not when they are face to face; Cause you know, you should be nice and polite when you're face to face, that makes the cheating easier.

-Matt

<thread terminated; if you believe someone is trolling, the appropriate response is to hit the "alert moderator" button, rather than lashing out angrily>