Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm thinking of starting up a mildly competitive GK list but before I plash out on models and the codex, I was wondering what people think are:
A) the overall style, tactics of GK
B) the strengths and weaknesses of SS, Purifiers, Interceptors and the HQ choices
C) Best weapon load-outs

Please help a guy who doesn't want to splash the cash and buy the wrong things...

Thank you very much

Well, since you only said "mildly competitive"...

A. GK are very much a medium range shooty army. They have amazing anti mech and anti infantry firepower, mostly concentrated in the <24" range band, However they have some of the best long range anti vehicle shooting, in the form of dreadnaughts, in the game. Don't make the mistake of thinking of them as a CC army, they are far better using their combat to clean up than as the main punch.

B.SS. strengths, very good shooting, S5 power weapons in combat, warp quake to mess up enemy deployment,
weakness: heavy point cost, close combat. as easy to kill at range as other marines.
purifiers strengths: even better shooting, good in close combat, cheap cc upgrades to hammers or halberds. purifying flame will tear hordes to pieces.
weaknesses: even higher points cost, vulnerable to shooting.
grandmasters strengths: allowance of more scoring units, close combat prowess, grenade availability
weaknesses: very expensive.
librarian Strengths, some amazing psychic powers, only psychic hood in the army,
weakness: expensive
Crowestrengths: purifiers as troops, heroic sacrifice, single model with purifying flame
weaknesses: expense, lack of independent character status
inquisitors very cheap, get what you pay for. i prefer the xenos for the awesome psychotrokes

C. stack psycannons everywhere you can, psybolt ammo if you have 10 man squads. halberds on purifiers and make sure you have at least a daemonhammer in every squad.
dreadnaughts should have 2 autocannons and psybolt ammo.

however, If you only want mildly competitive, maybe stay away from more than 1 dread.

What works best for me as GK is to force your opponent into fighting the opposite mode they're designed for. That may sound obvious since every army does this to some extent, but it's actually a guiding principle of GK since almost all their units can both shoot and fight instead of the typical army style of being focused on one or the other.

Something I feel should be said is to focus fire. A lot of armies also do this but with GK it's almost fundamental. We cost more on a model to model basis (even more so once we start paying for the special toys we get) but we make up for it with increased firepower. However we still only have the same amount of survivability as marines. Down a target then move onto the next. Remember though that tying up a target can also do the same thing. Getting a ven dread into combat with a unit that only has a single PK or thunderhammer will hold that unit down in place for a while allowing you to focus fire where it's needed more.

As stated by nikolai GK are primarily a shooty army. DOn't let the power weapons fool you. They give us an edge in some combats but if you have a squad that would beat up marines in cc they will do the same to GK's.

Our HQ slots are extremely competitive. Coteaz, Librarians, Grandmasters and Crowe are all good, but you need to find a combination that works for you. Instead of just going out and buying the models I would suggest proxying. That way you get a feel for what you want without having to spend cash.

For the elite slots you can either take Purifiers, Ven dreads or a Vindicare. These are your most competitive choices. They all perform though the assassin is the most fragile. It's also worth mentioning that Dreads should be given psybolt autocannons. While not absolutely necessary they create a really strong backbone to a list and add some much needed mobile fire support at long range.

For troops choices 2 Strike squads are almost mandatory purely for Warp Quake (i.e Deepstrike defense). After that you could do terminators but they are really expensive and can be outperformed by other units. I personally prefer to go with henchmen, though others like to take Crowe to unlock Troop choice Purifiers. This leads to one of the most competitive builds we have (purifers and ven dreads), though the exact nature of the build is up to you.

Henchmen offer a lot of variety. The preferred units are DCA with Crusaders, melta henchmen or psykers. The first unit goes very well with a stormraven with attached GM. This is important because they can assault out of it and get the use of his frag, rad and psychotroke grenades...meaning you strike at I6 and get a few nice debuffs on the enemy unit that you charge.

Melta henchmen are great for the cheap access to melta/plasma. It's something that the rest of the GK list really struggles to bring to the table so cheap access to it is a godsend.

Psykers are cool. 8 in a chimera comes in at 135pts and puts out a S10 AP1 blast at up to 36". Throw in some servo skulls from your HQ choice for improved accuracy and you have a nasty, nasty unit. Plus they are in an AV12 chassis. A very versatile unit, though opposing psykers can nullify them easily with their low LD. Make them priority 1 if you are running these guys. Oh and perils will destroy the whole squad if it goes off...something that detracts slightly from their awesome payload.

Interceptors are more of a fun unit though in large numbers they can be brutal. They have moibility and put out a lot of shots. With their shunt move they can get side/rear armour shots easily with S5 stormbolters and S7 rending psycannons. The issue with them is their cost. A fully upgraded unit is going to come in above 300pts. For 10 marines that's a bit high. But if given the opportunity they do deliver.

For heavy support choices people really like to bring more dreads with psybolt autocannons, though I personally find 3 in the elite slot is more than enough. Something we do lack is templates and they can be found here for a bargain price. Purgation squads can get 4 incinerators in a psybolt razorback for 150pts. That's anti-horde right there. Supported with heavy flamers on chimera's and you have a great support unit that may not be great at delaing against certain armies, but they can be used to roadblock or tarpit. Psycannons is another way to go. Use the Grand Strategy from a Grandmaster, scout 12" disembark behind the vehicle and then pepper your opponent with 16 S7 rending shots turn 1. Be warned though if your opponent has a lot of large blasts this may be unwise.

Phew...that's my take on the codex anyhow.

Grey Knights are a very short ranged army. With the exception of a few units, Most things have a 24" range. Check out the link in my sig for a HQ rundown. Also, there is a article about henchmen that you might find interesting.

Thank you very much everybody for your help... I'm liking GK even more now!

psyfle dreads are your most competitive unit (imo). get a few of them.

Good HQ's:
Crowe- Purifier Troops, enough said.
Coteaz- Henchmen troops, Reserve defense, Seize the Initiative Defense, Santuary.
Grand Master- Grand Strategy is good, Special grenades, Good in Close Combat.
Librarian- Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary and Shrouding.
Inquisitors- Cheap, Lots of options, Access to Henchmen and Chimeras. Chimeras can hold terminators.


Good Elites:
Henchmen- Lots of Options, can be troops (article in my signature)
Purifiers- Great for MSU (Halberds and maybe a Hammer and 2xPsycannons in a 5-6 man squad) can be troops
Ven Dread- Fortitude+venerable is a great combination, 2x Auto+Psybolt

Good Troops:
Strike Squads- Cheapest GK (I said GK, not Henchmen) bodies, good shooting at 24", can do okay in caombat against some units. 10 dudes, Hammer, 2x Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo.

Good Transports:
Chimera- Cheap, AV12, 5 fire points. Can carry Terminators, decent guns
Rhino- Very Cheap and Fortitude is great. Can shoot 2x Psycannons out of the top
Razorback- Can add longer range guns which are needed, HB+Psybolt is good and cheap, but the other guns can be pricey.

Good Fast:
.......
(there are only 2 choices. They are both okay, but they both have weaknesses. You often see Fast Attack empty in GK armies)

Good Heavy:
Dreadnought: Cheap transport hunter. Has Fortitude.



I would say that rounds out all of the "best" options. This is not to say that everything else is bad. There are a lot of units that are good (but maybe not the best).
Mordrak, Techmarine, Vindicare, Paladins, Interceptors, storm ravens, and dreadknights.

Henchmen offer a lot of variety. The preferred units are DCA with Crusaders, melta henchmen or psykers. The first unit goes very well with a stormraven with attached GM. This is important because they can assault out of it and get the use of his frag, rad and psychotroke grenades...meaning you strike at I6 and get a few nice debuffs on the enemy unit that you charge.

I know this isn't the rules section, but are you sure the squad benefits from frag grenades as well? As the GK FAQ does not talk about frag grenades and I don't know of any reason why they would benefit.

For clarity the GK FAQ bit:

Q: Does the entire unit need to be equipped with rad,
psyk-out and/or psychotroke grenades for their effects
to work or is just one model being equiped with them
enough? (p60)
A: One model in a unit is enough.

Frags only affect models that carry them.

No I believe it's defensive grenades that only affect the model that carries them. Will check the rulebook when I get home.

svendrex wrote:Frags only affect models that carry them.

What he said.

Thus, if a mixed unit charges another unit in terrain, only the models with frags attack at regular init. All others attack at I1.

The FAQ mentioned above only applies to rad, psyk-out and/or psychotroke grenades.

Hmmm, will be checking that one out...If so our gaming group has been playing that wrong (well mostly me).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yup, found it...Time to start trying out another list.

Could you post up like sample 1500pt list that are midly competitive, maybe one with Crowe, one with a GM, one of with corteaz and one with a normal inquisitor

I know this is cheeky but it'll help me decide on what to buy

Thanks for everyone's input and advice

I'm thinking of a dark blue paint scheme...

Example of my scaled down Coteaz/GK list from 1750 to 1500 (well 1493 to be precise) would be:

Headquarter

100 Inquisitor Coteaz
102 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor /w Psychotropic grenades, Rad grenades, Power Armour, 3 servo skulls, Psyker Mastery Level 1 with Hammerhand


Elites

215 6 man Purifier Squad /w 3 Halbers, 2 Psycannons, 1 Deamon Hammer, in a Rhino


Troops

270 10 man Grey Knight Strike Squad /w 1 Deamon Hammer, 2 Psycannons, in a Rhino
124 Inquisitorial Henchman Warband /w 8 Psykers, 1 Warrior Acolytes, in a Rhino
106 Inquisitorial Henchman Warband /w 6 Deathcult Assassins, 4 Warrior Acolytes, with a Psy-ammo Heavy Bolter Razorback


Heavy Support

135 Dreadnought /w dual twin-linked autocannons with Psybolt Ammunition
135 Dreadnought /w dual twin-linked autocannons with Psybolt Ammunition
255 Land Raider Redeemer /w Multi-melta

Idea is that the assassin henchman + xenos inquisitor go into the Land Raider. Coteaz joins the Purifiers to blanket Sanctuary at the front and adds another Hammerhand.

This is not the usual Coteaz list as most seem to use him together with a firebase, but as I enjoy a more mobile army that wasn't really an option. Also I have only 2 Henchman squads (and 2 inquisitors), so am not really taking full advantage of the Henchman troop options.

I might tone that down by dropping a dread...

BTW, best way to get a TW autocannon dread is to buy the Aegis line defense box for the AC parts.

@ pluxtheduck: Check out the list here http://www.3forint.com/2011/07/drunken-master-grey-knights-at-bay-area.html
It's an 1850 list, but you could easily shuffle around the units to drop it to your needs. There's a brief explanation of tactics versus the different armies as well that might help you out.

I disagree about shooting rather then close combat. Although there are Psycannons and Incinerators, Grey Knights have Force Weapons and kills with instant death.

Grey Knights Player 99 wrote:I disagree about shooting rather then close combat. Although there are Psycannons and Incinerators, Grey Knights have Force Weapons and kills with instant death.

Why would force weapons make them any better at assault against 90% of units in 40k. Sure, you can instant death some nobs or TWC, but banshees, wiches, blobs, BA Assault Squads, etc who strike at a higher initiative and/or with much higher volume of attacks really don't care that you can instant dead them.
With the small exceptions of purifiers and paladins (and DCA) GK should not be trying to get into CC, force weapons or not.

SO yeah, I have a whole blog about GK tactics (Prometheusatwar.com....)

Anyway. GKSS are quite good, but remember they're there for the shooting, not the CC. Always get them in squads of 10, when you can, with psybolts. Str 5 bolters are absolutely amazing, there's a lot of application for those. Pretty much always the optimal combination is NFW swords, psybolts, two psycannons, rhino. A hammer on the justicar is valid, but by no means necessary. Kinda expensive.

Purifiers are great, but don't make the mistake of loading up too heavily on them. Treat them like spice for the rest of your army. Yes, get the halberds, for 2 points on two attacks, that's awesome, unlike for the GKSS. Don't make the mistake in thinking they're there for shooting just because you can get 2 special weapons on 5 of them, that's so that you can get some extra incinerators in there, not have ridiculous 5 man, 2 psycannon squads (ablative wounds, people!) Someone should probably have a hammer, but not the justicar, that'd be 2 different unique models (for wound allocation, also perils).

I like incerceptors, personally, I just haven't found a list I can really use them in. I've tried out the 30" shunt, mostly to grab objectives, it's great, but they're just so delicate per point.

I used to really like the Librarian, but eventually, you just get tired of rune-weapons canceling you out. In end, a Grand Master's Grand Strategy is always useful. Also, you can buy "I win" grenades on him. Do you know what the 3 types of "I win" grenades do? They win.

SO... Thinking about a GM list or a Crowe list, if so what are the best weapon loadouts for a GM and does a GM have to have terminator armour?

Thank you for your input...

A Grandmaster always has terminator armour. He’s best equipped with rad and/or psychotroke grenades.

Almost always Draigo, Crowe, Coteaz, an Inquisitorial Weakling or a Librarian will prove a better choice. That’s not to say the GM is crap, he isn’t. But the other choices bring more to the lists they’re suited to. And for 100 points, Draigo may not have the nice grenades (30 pts for both) but he has a useful ranged psychic power, a 3++ save and eternal warrior as well as a much better stat line. Even in a paladin-free list he’s well worth considering in place of a GM.