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Hello I am in no way an experienced WFB player but I would like to know if this list would be effective.

Runelord, shield,RO stone, RO cleaving, spelleater rune 218

Thane, BSB, MRO gromril, RO speed, 130

20 warriors, FC, shields 205

20 warriors, FC, shields 205

20 thunderers 280

29 hammerers, FC, shields 407

x4 (Grudge throwers, rune of penetrating 105) 420

Flame cannon 140

2000 total.

I am pleased to accept all comments and criticism.

Flame cannons are pretty poor- I'd spend the points on something (anything!) else, unless you're aware and prepared for it to not be very cost effective.

I'd split up the thunderers, and maybe turn half of them into crossbows, but your mileage may vary.

The Grudgethrowers are one to many- you may only triplicate special choices in armies under 3K points. Change on to another war machine.

Normally I'd say nay to the small blocks of shield warriors- too small to do much, too big to be expendable, but they might work in conjunction with shooting. I can't quite picture how it'd work, but I feel like *someone* could find a way? Not sure. Definite Internet standard is to go great weapon, though.

Wouldn't worry about a magic weapon on the runelord, as he only has two attacks. Go for personal and magical protection. Most like MR of Balance, or a spellbreaker or two, but if you like the spelleater, more power to you. I usually use one, and it's been game changing at times.

That's it- I know it's a lot, but ignore as much as you like (except for the 4th GT!). There's some more tweaks, but they'll depend on what changes you might make in the second draft.

Also on the grudge throwers, I think you need to have different rune setups on each grudge thrower. So, for example, one with accuracy, one with penetrating, and one with flaming.

I am leaning towards boosting up your units with the points from losing a grudge thrower and maybe switching the flame cannon to an organ gun. Maybe giving your thunderers shields and command (I've always wanted to try a 20x thunderer block) and adding another 10 shield warriors to a block then switch the other to gw warriors. I would use the two 30 dwarf blocks (shield warriors and hammerers) as the main hammer and anvil with the 20x dwarf units (thunderers and gw warriors) acting as the smaller hammer and anvil units. With 3x grudge throwers and an organ gun (and 20x thunderers) most armies should be pretty weakened by the time they hit your lines.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:

Runelord, shield,RO stone, x2 spelleater rune 237

Thane, BSB, MRO gromril, RO cleaving,140

30 warriors, FC, shields 295

20 warriors, FC, GW 225

10 thunderers 140

10 thunderers 140

29 hammerers, FC, shields 407

X3 (Grudge throwers, rune of penetrating 105) 420

Organ gun 120

2000 .

This is the new list please add comments to help me better improve this list.

Lookin' tastier. Like Boogey said, you'll need to establish your grudgethrowers with unique rune selections (can't repeat the same combo in the army).

I'd consider at least one with a Rune of Accuracy, since you don't have a cannon, and will need some help knocking down monsters. At least one should also be flaming, probably the accurate one. If you need points, get 'em from the hammerers who don't get a huge benefit from the shields.

Runelord, shield,RO stone, x2 spelleater rune 248

Thane, BSB, MRO gromril, 165

30 warriors, FC, shields 295

25 warriors, FC, GW 275

14 thunderers 196

29 hammerers, FC 378

Grudge thrower, rune of penetrating 105

Grudge thrower, rune of penetrating, rune of reloading 115

Grudge thrower, rune of accuracy 105

Organ gun 120

2000 total.

This is my most recent list.

Looks better, IMO if you don't put RoAccuracy on a grudge thrower don't bring it. If I wanted to bring 3 and keep them unique and to the lowest points but still effective I would go:
GT, RoAccuracy, RoPenetrating 130
GT, RoAccuracy, RoBurning 110
GT, RoAccuracy 105

Personally I would then drop the thunderers add a 2nd OG to protect the other flank of the war machines, and add a ME to give the GTs both scatter and 1 per turn artillery dice re-rolls.

Runelord, shield,RO stone, x2 spelleater rune 248

Thane, BSB, MRO gromril, 165

Master engineer 70

30 warriors, FC, shields 295

25 warriors, FC, GW 275

29 hammerers, FC 378

Grudge thrower, rune of accuracy, rune of burning 110

Grudge thrower, rune of accuracy, rune of penetrating 130

Grudge thrower, rune of accuracy 105

Organ gun 120

Organ gun 120

I have made changes to the list, please leave comments of changes i should make.

Yuk, Id hate spending nearly 250p on a runelord whos only purpose is to dispel. What a handicap, its on par with a level 4 who can do nothing offensive.

Mate, for 152p get a runesmith with MRoBalance, you still get 2 DD and even nick one off them, still get an armour save of 2+ with stone and shield, but one spellbreaker. But man, its 100p less...For your cannon, get a cannon!

I like this last list the best, if it matters. , but I would agree with KSpen. I think I would drop the cheapest grudge thrower for a cannon with forging along with changing the runelord to a runesmith. Those points can pay for extra runic items like, for your BSB (immune to KB, poison, and flaming attacks), or something on your master engineer (not necessary but could be fun), or more warriors in one of your blocks.

boogeyman wrote:I like this last list the best, if it matters. , but I would agree with KSpen. I think I would drop the cheapest grudge thrower for a cannon with forging along with changing the runelord to a runesmith. Those points can pay for extra runic items like, for your BSB (immune to KB, poison, and flaming attacks), or something on your master engineer (not necessary but could be fun), or more warriors in one of your blocks.

Is removing the GT necessary to just get a cannon, i could just turn the rune lord into a smith to get the points, also i cant give him a master arcane item and another arcane item can i? Which is what KSpen suggested.

I've been running a runelord, very pleased with it. And despite 11% of my force sunk into anti-magic, I can still lose a game to an irresistible Occam's.

I think you should give this latest list a shot. You're close enough to a good list that you should be able to feel out any changes you want to make once you get some games in.

I'd normally say no to a Master Engineer, but if you can get him to support the whole battery, then you might actually be in business.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:

boogeyman wrote:I like this last list the best, if it matters. , but I would agree with KSpen. I think I would drop the cheapest grudge thrower for a cannon with forging along with changing the runelord to a runesmith. Those points can pay for extra runic items like, for your BSB (immune to KB, poison, and flaming attacks), or something on your master engineer (not necessary but could be fun), or more warriors in one of your blocks.

Is removing the GT necessary to just get a cannon, i could just turn the rune lord into a smith to get the points, also i cant give him a master arcane item and another arcane item can i? Which is what KSpen suggested.

Absolutely not. It is only a humble suggestion and probably rests more in the fact that I don't have a gt model and use my cannons instead. I am just assuming the cannon might be a better monster sniper or building wrecker than a gt.

Also, you would only be giving him one arcane item that can have up to three rune on it which one can be a master rune. I might actually keep the runelord as well, but change up the 2x spelleater runes to balance and spellbreaking. That still gives you 25 more points to play around with. Like RZ said, it is a good list and you should play it a few times to get a better feel for its strengths and weaknesses.

I'll agree with Boogeyman and Red Zeke; they know their Dwarfs.

A few comments:

- Grudge Throwers are slightly less reliable at monster-killing than Cannons, and slightly less effective at skirmisher-splatting than Organ Guns. But they can do it all. So, really, I'd say they're the best. My friend runs one Organ Gun, to protect her other war machines from Skinks and Gutter Runners (beware the minimum range on your war machines), but basically only for that reason. Otherwise, it'd be another 'Thrower or Cannon.

- A second thing on war machines: Dwarf war machines are the only ones that can really hope to stand against light troops and see through the day. WS4 T4 is nice. But my friend has taken to adding in an Engineer with a Brace of Pistols for an extra Wound and four extra attacks (two Stand and Shoot, two in Close Combat), which does help quite a bit against fast cavalry and the like, as well as offering a little Misfire Protection. At 20pts a pop, it's probably not worth it to have one on every engine; but on the flanks is nice.

That's my piece; the part that no one else has said yet, anyway. Good luck.

If i have units of 30 warriors would it be preferable to have them in a horde or 5 warriors in a rank as i am not sure.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:If i have units of 30 warriors would it be preferable to have them in a horde or 5 warriors in a rank as i am not sure.

You want them deep, because when they loe combat (and they will lose ocasionally) you want to be steadfast. Let your shooting kill, just use the warriors as a speedbump, and to hod up the enemy, hell if you have a big monster about to charge your warmachines, just charge it with somthing, can save your battery long enough to win.

EagleArk wrote:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:If i have units of 30 warriors would it be preferable to have them in a horde or 5 warriors in a rank as i am not sure.

You want them deep, because when they loe combat (and they will lose ocasionally) you want to be steadfast. Let your shooting kill, just use the warriors as a speedbump, and to hod up the enemy, hell if you have a big monster about to charge your warmachines, just charge it with somthing, can save your battery long enough to win.

Is it worth doing this with the hammerers as they are stubborn as have no advantage for steadfast?

Yes and no, yes they are stubborn, but if they are too wide they can get easily overwhelmed. Bear in mind that you can change formation during the game so change the setup accordingly.

You can only change formation in combat to increase your frontage though, so beware.

Honestly, though, I generally see people fielding their great weapon warriors wide. WS4 S5 T4 is pretty tough, and after shooting, most people probably expect to win combat. Besides, if you're losing, your opponent will probably have more ranks than you anyway, due to Dwarfs being middling-pricey and, apparently, mass casualties.

Hammerers, though, are WS5 S6. They won't survive the battle, typically, but they kill stuff so good. Deploy 'em wide, take the charge, deal out the pain. They don't have to win combat; their job is to kill lots of guys. So if my opponent wants to charge in with two or three units, he's welcome to.

Would it be worth dropping the shields on the warrior unit and giving them great weapons or would this make my whole combat force too easy to get through or instead give the GW unit shields instead?

Dwarfs with great weapons are, sadly, almost always mathematically better.

Warpsolution wrote:Dwarfs with great weapons are, sadly, almost always mathematically better.

Saying this I am guessing that I should replace the shield warriors with great weapons then.

Sometimes, I use a unit of 15 shield warriors as a support unit; their job is to counter-charge the enemy in the flank and give up as little CR as possible, and--most importantly--staying at least 10 Dwarfs strong. Opponents tend to overlook the unit, since it's worth less points and isn't really capable on its own.

...but yeah, I'd wager you'd do better with great weapons. Gone are the days of the shield wall. Sigh.

Warpsolution wrote:Sometimes, I use a unit of 15 shield warriors as a support unit; their job is to counter-charge the enemy in the flank and give up as little CR as possible, and--most importantly--staying at least 10 Dwarfs strong. Opponents tend to overlook the unit, since it's worth less points and isn't really capable on its own.

...but yeah, I'd wager you'd do better with great weapons. Gone are the days of the shield wall. Sigh.

Ive found that if you are taking sheilds, pay for longbeards, after all, you dont have to tell the enemy they are longbeards!

Uh...you don't? I dunno about that. Is there any specific rules that allow that? 'Cause otherwise...you've got to tell your opponent when they have upgrades; great weapons, command, etc.

Weird idea, though.

So for how to deploy my 3 units is the question, all horde, some horde some not, any advice?

As a very general rule of thumb and by no means written in stone, I would make the gw warriors and hammerers go horde and the shield warriors go 5 wide. I figure you want to have more attacks when you have gw for maximum carnage and you would want to keep steadfast with the more anvil-type units. Since you have fc on all your units, the musicians should help you reform when needed which will hopefully let you be in the best formation for the situation.

EagleArk wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:Sometimes, I use a unit of 15 shield warriors as a support unit; their job is to counter-charge the enemy in the flank and give up as little CR as possible, and--most importantly--staying at least 10 Dwarfs strong. Opponents tend to overlook the unit, since it's worth less points and isn't really capable on its own.

...but yeah, I'd wager you'd do better with great weapons. Gone are the days of the shield wall. Sigh.

Ive found that if you are taking sheilds, pay for longbeards, after all, you dont have to tell the enemy they are longbeards!

As long as it is wysiwyg, you dont have to tell them what they are, because if they are GW lonbeards, its up to them to know what they are, otherwise you have to tell.

I played a game at my GW store last week and this is the army i used, i dont have the army book while i write this so i am not sure on all the points.

Runelord, shield,R0stone, Mrobalence, dispel scroll thing

Thane, BSB, MRO gromril, the rune that makes him immue to KB and poison, preservation i think

30 warriors, FC, GW

30 warriors, FC, GW

28 hammerers, FC

GT Ropenetrating, Roaccuracy

GT Ropenetrating, Roaccuracy, Rofire

organ gun

organ gun

cannon Roforging

please leave comments.

Seems solid.

The Runelord looks really soft. T5 with a 2+ doesn't feel like enough protection for the +3 Dispel Dice/-1 Power Die that he offers.

The BSB makes me just a tiny bit nervous with only an Armour save and no Rune of the Furnace, but...eh.

I'm really not sure about the above; Dwarfs can pour so many points into characters, but shouldn't. Gotta' get to the sweetspot, where they're well protected enough to offer what they do, but not so expensive that losing them, since that'll still happen, will mean defeat.

I'm not a fan of the Organ Gun over the Grudge Thrower, even considering the typical 'Thrower costs 15pts more. It's less reliable, but infinitely more versatile.
The only thing it does well is kill Skirmishers, and with Skinks and Gutter Runners, that's still a good idea.

It's really the same problem as with characters: is 240pts spent, mainly to protect the other war machines, worthwhile? You might still lose most of them, at which point it would have been better to benefit from the Cannons and 'Throwers until they're gone, and save those other points for more bodies.

I might drop one. Engineers, with a brace of pistols, is another way to make your machines more durable in a different way. Less effective, sure. But 100pts less.

Really though, it seems solid.