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From all the list building I've seen, Agonizers seem to be the default choice of melee weapon, most notably on wych squad leaders. Why is this? It may seem like an obvious pick because it's a power weapon that can wound anything, but consider the actual math.

With 4 attacks on the charge and equal WS, the agonizer will always average 1 wound.

- Against MeQs, the venomblade would average .55 wounds. Against TeQs, .27
- Against t3 opponents (or t4 if you get +1 str drug or furious charge) the venom blade re-rolls to wounds. Agonizer is not a poisoned weapon, and so never does.
- Against GeQs (t3, ws3, 5+ armor) the venomblade would score ~1.95, twice as many as the agonizer.
- Against 3+/4++ units, the venomblade is superior.
- Against 2+/4++ units, the Agonizer is superior.
- Against 4+ save units, the Agonizer is superior.
- Against Units with a 4+/5++, the Venomblade is superior.
- Against Feel no Pain units, the agonizer is another 50% better.

Basically, if you are fighting MeQs or better, then yes the agonizer is superior. But against everything else, the venomblade is. However, the agonizer costs 15 points more, and the difference is fractions of a wound in effectiveness. If you changed your hexatrix to a venomblade, you could add another squad member or wych weapon, which will generally give you more wounds vs MeQs and TeQs than you are losing by moving to the venomblade. And the venomblade+extra member is MUCH more effective against everything else (especially when you are bringing an extra haywire.) If your list has other significant anti-MeQ punch (like incubi) then the argument for the venomblade is even stronger. It seems to me that the venomblade is the superior all comers choice. That said, I do understand that MeQs+TeQs are the most common army type. Is that enough to sway us towards the anti-MeQ choice?

I've actually been thinking about this for awhile now, the big advantage agonizers have is you can get lucky and just kill 4 marines, and that seems to be the appeal, but then again, your opponent rolling 1s and 2s is almost as likely. I'm thinking that I'm just going to use the points saved to buy blast pistols. Won't buy the extra squad member because the ride is already full, and already run a wyche weapon. Against marines it usually just better to shoot the unit to death with splinter cannons anyways, wyches should assault things you don't want to deal with right away, like termies and assault squad.

There is also the advantage that on most occasions Agonisers are 20 points while venom blades are 5 points

As with a huge amount of the Dark Eldar codex, in many cases the choice should vary depending on what the Wyches are supposed to be doing in your list. That said there is definitely still a holdover from the last codex (i.e everyone takes Agonisers because that's what they used to take) because the Venom Blade is certainly not that much worse overall than the Agoniser for much much cheaper and both do nothing to vehicles. The other factor is that the Agoniser doesn't get much benefit from Drugs and Pain Tokens.

If you are running a Wych heavy list then you often want Agonisers to give your army some more punch against MEQ (aka the most common thing you are going to face). If you are running so many Wyches (probably a horde of them through a Portal list) you don't care about 1 more power weapon wound per turn or your main anti MEQ punch is coming from Incubi or Beasts you might as well save the points and just take the Venom Blade.

Most commonly Wyches are used as tarpits though, using their 4++ to take on Terminators and other nasty combat units. Against these opponents the Agoniser is clearly a better choice, because 1-2 power weapon wounds will kill much more than some poison wounds.

Powerguy wrote:The other factor is that the Agoniser doesn't get much benefit from Drugs and Pain Tokens.

Getting the combat drug that allows you to reroll wounds in close combat benefits an agoniser much more than a venomblade, easily more valuable than the advantage a venomblade with the +1 S combat drug has over an agoniser. An 85-point succubus with agoniser and reroll wounds is plain nasty.

For me, it comes down to the fact that the regular wyches should do just fine against anything with armor worse than 3+, so the agoniser is required for the 2+/3+ models. Quite a lot of things have FnP these days, too.

Oaka wrote:For me, it comes down to the fact that the regular wyches should do just fine against anything with armor worse than 3+, so the agoniser is required for the 2+/3+ models. Quite a lot of things have FnP these days, too.

Thats what I was going to say, Your wyches are already good at dealing with what venom blades deal with, they aren't good at cracking MEQ's. You need something which lets you stand toe to toe with combat marines, so take an agoniser. (if this is what your wyches will be doing)

Agonisers are best for killing regular marines without an invulnerable save. TH/SS terminators still laugh at them and the extra 15 points you spent to go from a 2+ to a 3++. I only use Agonisers on units where I intend to KILL things, not tarpit, such as running with an Archon/SC on assassination assaults. For everything else, the Venom Blade is a better jack of all trades.