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Couldn't find anywhere about walkers and cover. Are they treated the same way as MC:s 50% rule when they are in area terrain or are they like infantry? How about different area terrains: craters, ruins, forests?

Walkers get cover the same way as vehicles - 50% or more of the facing being fired at needs to be blocked from view.

so defilers are pwned because they are usually significantly taller than most cover? if so...sweet! my chaos friend will be pwnd

They are like vehicles in that they must be obscured.

dajobe wrote:so defilers are pwned because they are usually significantly taller than most cover? if so...sweet! my chaos friend will be pwnd

That would depend entirely on your terrain collection.

If you have no terrain that completely blocks LOS, you should add some. The game is designed around having a mix of different terrain types on the board, and there should always be at least some that completely blocks LOS.

i guess thats true, i have alot of terrain that i have made, just most of it is not tall enough to block 50% of defy

The defiler shouldn't have its legs glued on, so you can have it scuttle around the board on its stomach like a crab or something by having the legs sprawled out. Helps if you yell 'slunk' when it is moving from cover to cover.

'That defiler sure is hard to get a bead on.'
**SLUNK**
'Emperor's mercy! It is right on top of me!'

-cgmckenzie

Brother Ramses wrote:They are like vehicles in that they must be obscured.

They are also like vehicles in the fact that they are vehicles.

Thanks for the answers. Been playing against GK that has 2-3 psyffledreds in forest. They have been very hard to kill because techmarine - GK stealthspell combo (2+ cover saves)

Vasara wrote:Thanks for the answers. Been playing against GK that has 2-3 psyffledreds in forest. They have been very hard to kill because techmarine - GK stealthspell combo (2+ cover saves)

Does the GK Techmarine have a rule that lets him improve the coversave of a forest?

Regular Space Marine, and Blood angels Techmarines only let you bolster a Ruin.

He doesnt let you bolster a forest, so interesting times if you play that he can do so....

Never played techmarine myself so I really haven't checked that rule so specific. Next time we need to clear the whole cover issue before game.

So how about this then:

A walker is in an area terrain forest/woods. The wood s is represented by 3-4 random trees (all at least the height of the walker) stuck to a 1' diameter card base. The tress are representational in that the area is assumed to be wooded but left clear to allow access for models.

Said walkers entire base is in the area terrain but on the edge firing out, all of the trees are behind the walker.

Does he claim a cover save for being in area terrain or not claim one as the walker is not 50% obscured?

I would say the former but can think of the odd occasion where opponents claim otherwise.

The ONLY thing that matters is whether the facign is actually, physically 50% obscured.

Whether you are stood in area terrain, behind another vehicle, whatever - the ONLY thing that tells you if you get cover is whether your facing is covered.

So, in your example, the terrain is providing NO beneit to the walker, at least when shot at from the front arc.

notprop wrote:Does he claim a cover save for being in area terrain or not claim one as the walker is not 50% obscured?

I would say the former but can think of the odd occasion where opponents claim otherwise.

It shouldn't be an 'odd occasion' since it's exactly what they rules say. The Vehicles and Cover rules on page 62 of the rulebook are quite explicit that vehicles don't get a cover save just for being in area terrain. They have to be physically obscured.

My Defiler is usually scuttling behind my Land Raider.

Nos and Insaniak are spot on here. How predictable!

What do you guys think, do the 50% of being physically obscured count for the actual volume of a model or for the "box" defined by its corner?. E.g. Eldar War Walkers have a lot of free space between their legs. Now, if I can't see its legs they are definitely not 50% of its body. But if I say the model begins at it's base and corners it should be about 50%.

I'd use a convex shape defined from the base to along the outside of the model. It's a bit nebulous and should be analyzed on a case by case basis, though.

Our group usually measures the heights of the respective models. If the one in front is taller than half the one behind it grants cover. Only if they are directly behind each other though.

I use the actual facing, and amount covered. Space between legs, arms etc do not count.

I use the amount actually covered as well.

Helps Necron Monoliths. They only need a bit more than the bottom third to be covered to give the 50% obscured since they are pyramid shaped.

Had my opponent "hide" his Monolith behind a forest for a couple of turns.

Just made it easier to ignore it!

The rules refer to the model being obscured, not some imaginary box. Is space part of the model?

I pour wet glue on my models so space sticks to them, so yes.

You only take into account the actual model. So, if there is something 1/2 the height of a titan but only covers the legs, it will not get cover because the legs are not 1/2 the model.

-cgmckenzie

Okay, so question about this since I don't have my rulebook in front of me. But don't the rules for shooting and area terrain say that if the shooter is firing between elements of area terrain, the target gets a cover save? What would happen in the situation below (green is trees). The Walker is not TLOS obscured, but it is between elements of the area terrain. Would it get cover? What about if it was standing behind the area terrain (assume still not obscured by TLOS).

Kolath wrote:Okay, so question about this since I don't have my rulebook in front of me. But don't the rules for shooting and area terrain say that if the shooter is firing between elements of area terrain, the target gets a cover save? What would happen in the situation below (green is trees). The Walker is not TLOS obscured, but it is between elements of the area terrain. Would it get cover? What about if it was standing behind the area terrain (assume still not obscured by TLOS).

No. Those are the rules for shooting at units that aren't vehicles. Vehicles treat cover differently. Page 62, first and second bullet points.

No, because vehicles explicitly say that they take cover from TLOS, not simply being behind area terrain.

-cgmckenzie

insaniak wrote:

notprop wrote:Does he claim a cover save for being in area terrain or not claim one as the walker is not 50% obscured?

I would say the former but can think of the odd occasion where opponents claim otherwise.

It shouldn't be an 'odd occasion' since it's exactly what they rules say. The Vehicles and Cover rules on page 62 of the rulebook are quite explicit that vehicles don't get a cover save just for being in area terrain. They have to be physically obscured.

pick up one of the trees and put it in front of the walker.

theres your obscurement

this is how area terrain is supposed to work in my interpertation.

it provides cover to the vehicles if the representitive cover(trees, bushes, small rocks) when used for illustrative purposes actually blocks LoS.



it just seems silly for a single rock in the middle of the field to give cover, but a forest of trees doesn't.

Okay, fair enough, the relevant rule appears to be:

BRB p62 wrote:
Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Targets
Vehicles are not obscured simply for being inside area terrain. The 50% rule given above takes precedence.

That said, what if you have a piece of forest area terrain that is full of tress (and thus you cannot place the model in it). If I understand correctly, the rules allow the model to be in the area terrain and you would go by the "wobbly model syndrome" movement exception under the movement rules. Would the walker then be considered obscured?

Also, as a side note, I seriously hope they change the area terrain rules in 6th edition to be more like 4th edition. Modeling forests so you can physically place units for gameplay should not negatively impact the use of area terrain as cover to vehicles behind them. Just my humble opinion though.

Kolath wrote:Okay, so question about this since I don't have my rulebook in front of me. But don't the rules for shooting and area terrain say that if the shooter is firing between elements of area terrain, the target gets a cover save?

The regular cover rules do. As I pointed out just a couple of posts ago, the vehicle rules over-ride this for vehicles.

Grey Templar wrote:pick up one of the trees and put it in front of the walker.

theres your obscurement

That's not how area terrain works. You are given permission in the area terrain rules to temporarily remove parts of the terrain in order to place models in it. You are not given permission to shuffle the terrain features around.

Kolath wrote:That said, what if you have a piece of forest area terrain that is full of tress (and thus you cannot place the model in it). If I understand correctly, the rules allow the model to be in the area terrain and you would go by the "wobbly model syndrome" movement exception under the movement rules. Would the walker then be considered obscured?

Wobbly Model Syndrome simply allows you to place a model 'near enough' and consider it to be where it is supposed to be. So if the model would be obscured if it was sitting where it is supposed to be, then it counts as obscured.