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Here are two 1000 point lists for a team tournament this coming weekend.

Blood Angels - #1
Mephiston
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 985

Blood Angels - #2
Librarian - Fear of the Darkness, Shield of Sanguinius
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Total - 960

As you can see, there are a few points remaining in each list. Thoughts?

I think you are a little light on scoring units. Five assault marines can be killed relatively easily and quickly, armor or no armor.

Many tournaments require teams to meet a special force organization condition. Assuming there are no such restrictions, I think you have a nasty grouping of predators that have the opportunity to do some significant damage.

I like list 1, but I think you should drop Mephiston for a Librarian and get another Razorback with a 5 man Assault Squad. That's what I would run at 1000 points since it gives you 3 vehicles with AV 13 and that's pretty hard to deal with at 1000 points.

Librarian
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 1000

That'd what I'd do. Personally I'd drop the Lascannon Sponsons since they aren't twin linked and its very difficult to get both Lascannons shots off in the same turn. It ends up being a waste points wise since you pay 65 or 70 points for what's essentially once Lascannon most of the game.

Yeah, I think you guys are missing an opportunity to grossly abuse the FOC here.

How about this?

HQ1: Librarian with Shield and Blood Lance 100
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135

HQ2: Librarian with Shield and Blood Lance100
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135

The Auto/Las Predator is one of the best vehicle killers there is, plus it's rough on TEQ. The Assault Marines handle other stuff. It will be nearly impossible to pop all those vehicles, and 20 KP isn't too bad for 2000 points.

MrEconomics wrote:Yeah, I think you guys are missing an opportunity to grossly abuse the FOC here.

How about this?

HQ1: Librarian with Shield and Blood Lance 100
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR1: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS1: Auto/Las Predator 135

HQ2: Librarian with Shield and Blood Lance100
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR2: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun Las/Plas Razorback 165
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS2: Auto/Las Predator 135

The Auto/Las Predator is one of the best vehicle killers there is, plus it's rough on TEQ. The Assault Marines handle other stuff. It will be nearly impossible to pop all those vehicles, and 20 KP isn't too bad for 2000 points.

This is a strong list. I suggested something similar on Warseer, but one of the things I think would be amusing is 6 Baal Predators rushing on turn 1 and abusing smoke on a fast scout vehicle. Because of the way smoke is worded** you can move 18" on your scout move, pop smoke, then if you go first you can move another 6" and fire everything, and maintain smoke on your opponents shooting phase.

**Smoke: Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them (it doesn't matter how far it moved). Place some cotton wool....blah blah....The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers, but will count as obscured in the next enemy shooting phase, receiving a 4+ cover save.

Since its been ruled that Scout moves happen before the first turn, the "cannot shoot any weapons in the same turn" clause doesn't affect the first turn if you pop smoke on your scout move, and since it affects your opponents next shooting phase (which just so happens to be after YOUR FIRST shooting phase), you gain a cover save after moving and firing everything.

So I would consider something like:

Librarian (Shield, Something Else) - 100
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ LasPlas) - 165
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ LasPlas) - 165
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Sponsion Heavy Bolters) - 145
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Sponsion Heavy Bolters) - 145
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Sponsion Heavy Bolters) - 145
Predator (Autocannon, Sponsion Lascannons) - 135
Total 1,000

Run a pair of those and you have 6 AV13 targets 18" upfield on the first turn with a cover save, and if you go first you have an extra 6", a full volley of fire, and retain smoke. You also have a pair of AC/LC Predators and a bunch of LasPlas Razorbacks sitting in the back shooting and suppressing vehicles at the same time. Seems relatively strong to me.

Wow, I've never realized that about Scout moves. You should probably check that interpretation ahead of time for the tournament. Assuming Aldarionn's interpretation is followed, I think his list is better.

The real takeaway is that the two of you should spam the same stuff, to overwhelm your opponents' abilities to deal with it.

MrEconomics wrote:Wow, I've never realized that about Scout moves. You should probably check that interpretation ahead of time for the tournament. Assuming Aldarionn's interpretation is followed, I think his list is better.

There were several threads discussing this on several forums, and there is no question that it works by the RAW. It's a direct interpretation of the RAW and the FAQ as they stand right now, which means a tournament judge would most likely uphold it, but definitely check with the staff before the tournament to make sure it works. It's quite an interesting loophole if I do say so myself, and probably against RAI, but I can find no flaw with it.

MrEconomics wrote:The real takeaway is that the two of you should spam the same stuff, to overwhelm your opponents' abilities to deal with it.

This is definitely the key. If you spam as much AV13 as possible your opponent will have some severe difficulty in dealing with all of it before you can unload on him with the full force of 8 Predators and 4 Razorbacks.

It was simply a typo that the list had TL Lascannons listed. I know better. We don't own that many Preds, but I can see how those lists would be strong.

Originally, I was going to run Grey Knights but I only have GKTs and 1000 is tough.

Well if you are limited to this for models, then you have probably made the best list you are capable of at this points level. Even still, it's a nasty list and it should give your opponents a good run for their money.

Wolf 11x wrote:Here are two 1000 point lists for a team tournament this coming weekend.

Blood Angels - #1
Mephiston
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, TL Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 985

Blood Angels - #2
Librarian - Fear of the Darkness, Shield of Sanguinius
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Total - 960

As you can see, there are a few points remaining in each list. Thoughts?

I actually like both the lists. The only think I would change is list 2. I would drop the autocannon dreads and try to pic up furiosos. You have one single model that is scary in assault and that Mephiston. Could you imagine if you both ran Mephiston? That would most likely make your opponents shat their pants.

Been giving it a little thought overnight and we figure mixing both lists would be wiser, especially if the one of the mission ends up something like bringing in one of the two lists initially. We'd hate to have no anti-tank on the table.

We're thinking this:

Blood Angels - #1
Mephiston - 250
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun, & Dozerblades - 165
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon - 165
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 145
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons - 135
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons - 135
Total - 995

Blood Angels - #2
Librarian - Blood Lance, Wings of Sanguinius
Sanguinary Priest
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun - 165
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon - 165
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 145
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons - 135
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons - 120
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons - 120
Total - 1000

Just wanted to post what we're going to try out tomorrow:

Blood Angels - #1
Mephiston
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun, Dozerblades
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon, Dozerblades
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozerblades
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblades
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Total - 1000

Blood Angels - #2
Librarian - Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasmagun, Dozerblades
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with TL Assault Cannon, Dozerblades
3 Attack Bikes - Multi-Meltas
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozerblades
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblades
Dreadnought - 2 TL Autocannons
Total - 1000

I'll post an update Friday night with our results.