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I seen Reecius take a TL LC + cc wep dread over the usual riflemen dread that I see in most lists. In his list it makes sense with 3 dreads supporting each other. Does anyone else do that and what are your results? Would it be worth taking the TL LC + cc wep dread without bjorn and a buddy? Seems to me 4 shots is better then 1 but thats coming from guard. dread cc weapon is good as is the str 9 ap 2 of the las cannon for killing oblits or paladins.

It honestly depends on what the rest of your list is comprised of, I think. Las/CC Dreads are designed for CC and a fairly reliable Anti-Tank gun (although I'd argue that a MM would be better). Against AV 12 and lower, a Rifleman Dread will score more Glances/Pen's. Any higher, then a Lascannon would be better (although a Melta weapon within Melta range is optimal). TL Las on Dreads are way overpriced, IMHO, but depending on how the list compliments the other units, YMMV.

Rifleman Dreads are probably the most "economical" Dreads, from the quantity, as well as quality, of the shots you're getting. You're not going to do much to anything with AV 13 or higher, but against light transports, Land Speeders, or anything T3 and lower with multiple wounds (IG anyone???), they are far more reliable.

It would appear to me, that Rifleman Dreads, as a "Stand Alone Dread" in an army list, fair better and are better used points, than a TL Las/CC Dread.

I run with a TLLC + DCCW dread. I have never had good luck personally with the autocannons. I know the math says one thing, but with my dice...it goes a little something like this:

Dice: Statistics be fouled! We are rolling ones to pen the armor!
Me: So?! It's a lascannon, I still get to roll on the damage chart for that DE Raider!"
Dice: I hate you.


It's also wonderful to have the CC option. There aren't a whole lot of things that make good targets for CC dreads, but it's never bad to have more options open to you.

The autocannons fare much better than the Lascannon against Big Bugs, Demon Princes, and the wonderful, "I'm immune to everything," Avatar.

If you are trying to put wounds on monstrous creatures, especially ones with invulnerable saves, autocannons are the way to go.

I am not big fan of Dreads in close combat.


Even with S10 Power attacks, they only have 2-3 attacks. That is not really enough to break or kill a squad.

They do tie up squads well, especially if they do not have a powerfist.


The thing is, Dreads tie up units in combat just as well with no DCCW as they do with it.

I would rather go for the increased ability to shoot over a few attacks being better.


Also, what codex are you playing? It will make a bit of a difference.

Ruronibenshin
I actually don't see the economical in a rifleman dread yeah its two tl autocannons but you can get that on an IG Hydra for 45 less points abeit BS3. Las cannon/ cc dread would give me a strength 10 power weapon in my backfield as I give my backfield grey hunters flamers only but it would get less shots.

svendrex
I'd be running space wolves. Trying to decide on my last elite slot. Have some wolf guard with combi meltas and power fists who get split out to grey hunters and 1 unit of wolf scouts. Thinking I might want to try a shooty dread to put out more shots vs GK or the second wolf scout unit.

Kirika, you missed the part where the dread can deep strike in in a pod, tie up any unit in CC with Str6 attacks, and is considerably less vulnerable to being attacked in CC since it doesn't get hit on the rear armor until immobilized. worth 45 points definitely.

To me, this is a no-brainer. Would you rather have a dread with 2 S10 force weapon attacks and 1 TL S9 shot but costing 145pts? Or would you rather have 4 TL S8 shots but at 10pts cheaper? Now consider that the rest of your army all have force weapons but no AT beyond 24"?

To me, it isn't very hard. Get the shooty dreads and lock up enemy units in combat. Your dreads don't have to kill them in combat, just hold them off for a few turns. If you really want them dead, all you need do is counter-charge them with your halberd purifiers or strike squads to finish them off. Relying on the dread to kill off your enemies is like relying on a tervigon in a nid army to be a close-combat beast. Why, when there are better options available? There are many GK units that fight better than their dreads, but none shoot better than their psyfleman dreads.



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In the case of Space Wolves, LC+DCCW dreads make more sense because their rifleman dreads aren't as good as GK psyfleman dreads. I'd say it depends on the rest of your SW army. If your AT consists mainly of missiles and few meltas, then yeah, you can consider LC dreads for anti-AV14 busting. However, if you already have plenty of meltas, then I'd still take rifleman dreads.

Las-cannons are not AV 14 busting weapons. You really need S10, Melta, or Lance weapons to take on AV 14 with any kind of efficiency.


Assault Cannons actually deal more Damage to AV 14 then Las-cannons do.



I would always take the Rifle-Dread. It has a purpose (take out transports) and it does that well due to the rate of fire.

It still has the ability to tar pit units with powerfists, and it can move and fire at full effect. Thus it can serve as an effective blocker for the rest of your Fire Base.

Kirika wrote:Ruronibenshin
I actually don't see the economical in a rifleman dread yeah its two tl autocannons but you can get that on an IG Hydra for 45 less points abeit BS3. Las cannon/ cc dread would give me a strength 10 power weapon in my backfield as I give my backfield grey hunters flamers only but it would get less shots.

So are you saying that from the point of view of a Guard or Wolves player? Either way, lots of people aren't those armies so a pair of TL autocannons is a very useful choice especially if you can drop it in a pod.

Darkjediben
I don't like drop pods for dreadnoughts. I don't see a point to dropping dreads you drop down maybe kill something and then get meltaed. Then there is the Grey Knight bandwagon and warp quake.

jy2
Current 2k wolf list I'm looking at has 4 meltas with 4 combis on wolfguard and 1 multimelta on a speeder, 5 las plas razors along with the usual 15 missles. Thinking the tl las dread gives me more ap2 but the tl auto cannon is more shots.

Miraclefish
From the stand point of a guard player the auto cannon dread isn't such a good buy because it costs 45 points more then a hydra for the same ranged firepower. It has some other advantages like av12 sides and more survivable if close combat happens.

I don't love the TL LC....tehy over costed it. Assault cannons are pretty aweomse (and of course....psycannons are better).

Kirika wrote:Ruronibenshin
I actually don't see the economical in a rifleman dread yeah its two tl autocannons but you can get that on an IG Hydra for 45 less points abeit BS3. Las cannon/ cc dread would give me a strength 10 power weapon in my backfield as I give my backfield grey hunters flamers only but it would get less shots.

Comparing the points efficiency of two units in different codexes is completely pointless. So what if the Hydra is 45 points cheaper? That doesn't make the Rifleman dread bad, or the Hydra amazing. It doesn't matter what standpoint you are looking at it from, because the SM/SW/BA player doesn't have access to the Hydra, and the IG player doesn't have access to the Rifleman. You have to make the comparisons in the context of the entire army before you can even begin to compare them.

As an example, I think everyone agrees that Long Fangs are significantly more points efficient than Vanilla Devastators, but that doesn't mean that we should never take Devastators in a Vanilla Marine list, does it?

Kirika wrote:jy2
Current 2k wolf list I'm looking at has 4 meltas with 4 combis on wolfguard and 1 multimelta on a speeder, 5 las plas razors along with the usual 15 missles. Thinking the tl las dread gives me more ap2 but the tl auto cannon is more shots.

Judging from this comment, whilst I despise razor/long fang spam with a passion personally, I think you'd find a TL LC dread would benefit you more as you don't really need the autocannons with 15 missiles and the dreadnought can provide close combat protection and deterrent for the Long Fangs; this is also pretty much what reecius uses them for.