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I have been thinking about starting DE and I really like shadowblade.
But there is 1 problem: I cant find any use for him!
Looks like he could assasinate war machines, but he is 300p. That's way too much for war machine hunter.
So please if you know anything he can do well please tell me.

-unforgiven-

I think you will find that most special characters are hilariously over costed.

The reason why teclis is hated is because hes an SC that is actually worth his points. Nobody complains about how overpowered karl franz is because hes worthless.

I honestly cant think of many SCs that are worth their points at all.

Question wrote:I think you will find that most special characters are hilariously over costed.

The reason why teclis is hated is because hes an SC that is actually worth his points. Nobody complains about how overpowered karl franz is because hes worthless.

I honestly cant think of many SCs that are worth their points at all.

Havent played O&G eh?

O&G SCs are awesome some more some less but I wont say one is too costly except Azagh the bugger maybe.

Maybe the new 8th ed SCs are better in general.

Question wrote:Maybe the new 8th ed SCs are better in general.

Well, actually SCs like grimgork recieved a nerf in 7th and that wasnt reverted in 8th but they´re still woth their points. Ok, grimgork is a lot cheaper now compared to 6th but anyway.
SCs are mostly fine, some are a bit OP but most of the time you pay extra points for using a SC not for the stats itself and that´s ok. Plus there are those themed army players.

On topic, I think Shadowblade can be a nice hero sniper. With his stats he wipes the floor with magicians and other non duel heros. Even vs duel heroes he doesnt look super bad. 300points for that statline aint that bad I say. You wont field him on <2k points games, but once you field 2.5 or more points he shouldnt be a drawback. WS10 Ini10 and ASF is nasty, add poison and his special rules and you get a real killer. Warmashines aint his targets but lone chars and even monsters are on his list.

I guess shadowblade could be used to assassinate tooled up mages. Or Teclis.

However since you can only put 25% of your points into heroes, and you need a BSB that costs 100+ points...cant be used in 1500 or lower.

Most DE players only use Shadowblade vs. players that ALWAYS use Teclis in a nasty bunker unit with the antimagic banner. He's about the only target he can reliably handle and still make his points back - not to mention being this being one of the few ways to deal with the Teclisstar.

so he is good way to kill teclis?
Well, my friend is just starting HE and doesn't know how good teclis is.
He also playa O&G and my other friend plays dwarfs and then few players I know play many armies, but these are the ones I mostly play against (maybe bretonnia too)
So if this helps to find other uses for him, please share

-unforgiven-

How does he kill teclis?
Doesn't the unit champ just issue a challenge and force the assassin to accept?
4 attacks isn't exactly outstanding, and ASF elf champs have a good shot at injuring/killing the assassin.
For 300 points, I'd rather have 2 normal assassins.

Leave teclis killing to the experts; (3 units of 10 harpies).

-Matt

Shadowblade is ASF I10, makes the champion lose an attack and...has a 5+ Ward?

He hides in Teclis' unit, pops up and kills him.

Warpsolution wrote:Shadowblade is ASF I10, makes the champion lose an attack and...has a 5+ Ward?

He hides in Teclis' unit, pops up and kills him.

And the unit champ hits him on 4's, and also ASF making I10 not matter at all.
Against phoenix guard, shadowblade averages less than 1 wound. (8/9ths hit, 2/3rd wound, 5/6th fail armor, 1/2 fail ward).
Shadowblade is likely to lose combat (3 ranks and standard) vs Charging and 0 or 2 combat res (he doubles res for wounds).
If shadowblade doesn't remember to challenge, the unit champ can pull him to the otherside, and after dying, leave shadowblade not touching teclis at all (where rank and file will kill him).
You can get 2 generic assassins for that 300 points which will serve you better.

110 points of harpies is going to be tossing 4 to 6 S3 attacks (wounding on 3's) on teclis.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:How does he kill teclis?
Doesn't the unit champ just issue a challenge and force the assassin to accept?
4 attacks isn't exactly outstanding, and ASF elf champs have a good shot at injuring/killing the assassin.
For 300 points, I'd rather have 2 normal assassins.

Leave teclis killing to the experts; (3 units of 10 harpies).

-Matt

Sure, the champ might manage to kill Shadowblade... with a fair amount of luck. He must hit and wound with both attacks, and Shadowblade must fail both his ward saves. However, once the champ is dealt with, Teclis is meat in the next round.

Or, you can just decline the challenge. Since there is nowhere for Shadowblade to go where he's not in combat, he can then just direct his attacks onto Teclis (you did put him BtB wtih Teclis, right?). Down side of that is that the unit will murder him at the same time.

Shadowblade MUST accept the challenge. With nowhere to hide, you do not have the option to decline the challenge.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:Shadowblade is ASF I10, makes the champion lose an attack and...has a 5+ Ward?

He hides in Teclis' unit, pops up and kills him.

And the unit champ hits him on 4's, and also ASF making I10 not matter at all.
Against phoenix guard, shadowblade averages less than 1 wound. (8/9ths hit, 2/3rd wound, 5/6th fail armor, 1/2 fail ward).
Shadowblade is likely to lose combat (3 ranks and standard) vs Charging and 0 or 2 combat res (he doubles res for wounds).
If shadowblade doesn't remember to challenge, the unit champ can pull him to the otherside, and after dying, leave shadowblade not touching teclis at all (where rank and file will kill him).
You can get 2 generic assassins for that 300 points which will serve you better.

110 points of harpies is going to be tossing 4 to 6 S3 attacks (wounding on 3's) on teclis.
-Matt

How? Doesn't the ASF Horde behind Teclis simply kill the whole unit before it ever strikes?

I thought it wasn't necessary to actually move the models involved in a challenge?

Nagashek wrote:

How? Doesn't the ASF Horde behind Teclis simply kill the whole unit before it ever strikes?

I thought it wasn't necessary to actually move the models involved in a challenge?

White Lions and Phoenix Guard don't throw out enough attacks, swordmasters will carve through them; but swordmasters usually get shot to pieces are aren't normally used for a teclis body guard (I usually see phoenix guard).

Do you see Tec's body guard go 10 wide? I don't. I see 5 wide and 6-7 deep as the most common formation.

10 halberds that hit on 3's with re-rolls and kill on 3's will usually leave 4-5 harpies alive to swing.
Should teclis go into anything but phoenix guard, I've found that massed repeating xbows do the trick.

In either case, 2 normal assassins do the job better than 1 Shadowblade. (the assassin not touching teclis challenges, the other swings on tec).
Really, anything decent sized in melee kills teclis, and darkelves have a lot of options cheaper than 300 points.

-Matt

Yes, PG Hordes is what i see guarding Teclis. No one wants to engage it in CC, and that ridiculous ward save keeps them swinging even after multiple templates. So my math figured for Hordes, which utterly blend Harpies.

In my Meta, everyone takes a Blending horde (many S5/S4AP attacks), which nothing short of TzChosen can stand against, even in a small SwordnBoard formation, alas. No one has found a good reason to NOT do this yet.

Phoenix guard by itself isnt scary at all. It cant hurt anything tough with 10 s4 attacks and a 4+ ward save is roughly equal to 2 wounds with no save...which is not that impressive on a t3 model that costs as much as a chaos warrior.

I don't mind so much if my opponent uses Teclis. I don't even mind so much if he uses the Teclis/Phoenix Guard deathstar. I DO mind if that is the ONLY army he ever uses. About the third time I see it from the same player, I start using Shadowblade, with a ROH master on a dark peggy for backup, and other such shennanigans to tailor a list against it.

Vulcan wrote:I don't mind so much if my opponent uses Teclis. I don't even mind so much if he uses the Teclis/Phoenix Guard deathstar. I DO mind if that is the ONLY army he ever uses. About the third time I see it from the same player, I start using Shadowblade, with a ROH master on a dark peggy for backup, and other such shennanigans to tailor a list against it.

This.

If it's all my opponent is going to use then I'll bring the best counter i can think of.

Vulcan wrote:Most DE players only use Shadowblade vs. players that ALWAYS use Teclis in a nasty bunker unit with the antimagic banner. He's about the only target he can reliably handle and still make his points back - not to mention being this being one of the few ways to deal with the Teclisstar.

I don't know about this. At least if I were playing the High Elves in question, I'd just challenge with my champion. We go at the same time because of stupid ASF rules, so while you will kill me, I might wound you once. After that (assuming you dont cause too many wounds considering the 4+ Ward Save on Pheonex Guard), I win by 3 ranks and a banner. Let's say I win by 3. Thats almost a 50% chance that the assassin will run away and either get caught or shot/spelled down the following turn. If the assassin stays, then Teclis can just buff his unit to T7 and regrowth the champion back. This way you only wound on 6's and he still gets his 4+ ward. NOW you probably lose combat by 4-5 and run away.

Assuming that the Teclisstar doesn't have the antimagic banner, that is.

If he can still buff and regrow his unit, I'll be able to magic it to death.

Shadowblade doubles his combat res in a challenge, and is LD10. On average, he'll kill the champ (1 wound, counts as 2 for combat res) and be charging. That gives him a 3 vs a 4.
He loses by 1, and is likely to hold.

At worst, he wiffs, takes a wound (unit champ loses 1 of his 2 attacks), and loses by 4 (3 ranks, standard, wound vs charging). And he'd be looking at holding on a 6.

If the Teclis unit has a hero in it (they seem like the do), then the high elf player has a 2nd round combat challenge that again shadowblade must accept.

Since the teclis I fight likes lore of shadow, I've got to be able to kill him in 1 round, otherwise I find myself up against another elf Noble and Teclis has teleported to another unit.


Shadowblade does seem like a great option for this Storm of Magic thing.

-Matt

Dont take a champion in the PG. Shadowblade challenges, teclis refuses and runs to the back, shadowblade is stuck with 4 attacks vs 4+ ward models, he loses combat due to banner + ranks and is cut down.

Question wrote:Dont take a champion in the PG. Shadowblade challenges, teclis refuses and runs to the back, shadowblade is stuck with 4 attacks vs 4+ ward models, he loses combat due to banner + ranks and is cut down.

If you don't have the champion, shadowblade appears in base to base with teclis, doesn't issue a challenge, and kills him.
Shadowblade is of such limited use, it's unlikely that high elves would plan a Teclis build around how to counter shadowblade.

-Matt

Shadowblade can always appear in base to base with teclis.

Gorbad wrote:On topic, I think Shadowblade can be a nice hero sniper. With his stats he wipes the floor with magicians and other non duel heros. Even vs duel heroes he doesnt look super bad. 300points for that statline aint that bad I say. You wont field him on <2k points games, but once you field 2.5 or more points he shouldnt be a drawback. WS10 Ini10 and ASF is nasty, add poison and his special rules and you get a real killer. Warmashines aint his targets but lone chars and even monsters are on his list.

qft x1000

...except that a regular assassin costs less than half his points for, I believe, -1WS and BS.