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Hey all I am confused about this whole concept of the missing chapters. These are those chapters in the space marine chapters lists that have done something so bad as to be completely stricken from the records and no longer be named.

What confuses me is exactly what did this chapters do to deserve this?? The traitor legions turned against the Emperor and the Imperium, fully embraced chaos, practically brought the Imperium to its knees, attacked Terra and left the Emperor for dead. This was all done while killing millions of people across the galaxy/universe. Yet the traitor legions are *still* named and have *not* be stricken from the record. Exactly what is worse than what the traitor legions did?? Did the stricken chapters do all that *and* rape babies?? I just don't get it...

Speculations?? Ideas??

Skriker

You mean the two missing Legions, right?

The traitor legions are known by the Space Marines and the Imperial military records in order to document their attacks and tactics but only a few may use them, they are not openly known and certain Chapters may require to be removed from records after betrayals and missing in the Warp. Records may also be incorrect and could of been destroyed.

The bottom line is that no one knows, principally because no one is supposed to know. If you listen to the recent interview 40k Radio did with Rick Priestley, he makes it pretty clear that the main reason the concept of two lost chapters and two missing primarchs was included in the game was to create a sense of mystery in the background fluff. So, speculation on the topic is fine (even encouraged!), but there is no official reason because if there were, it wouldn't be much of a mystery, would it? There is also the angle that having two missing chapters leaves players the option of creating their own founding legions/primarchs without contradicting official fluff.

My personal theory is that the two missing primarchs took the Emperor's favorite Land Raider for a spin and wrecked it...

The two legions that are left a mystery are just that - a mystery for the sake of it. They're there so folks can come up with their own Space Marine chapters and say they're descended from a lost legion or what have you. Ditto on the missing chapters. It's all there so DIY Marine players can have a little fun, and so GW can have a little more mystery in their backstory.

Out of universe answer: They exist so that players can design their own legions.



In universe answer: No one really knows what became of these chapters. Perhaps even the Emperor has forgotten what their fate was. (Being dead for 10,000 years has some adverse effects on memory, after all)

The best theories I've heard:
1) They did something worse than turn against the IoM and launch a massive attack. They became pacifists. And, everyone knows the 40k universe relies on constant warfare to continue existing. If the idea of pacifism spread throughout the Galaxy, the universe would end.

2) They fell to Chaos before Horus did and were wiped out quickly and before they could do much. The Emperor remove all record of them to prevent the spread of Chaos. Horus's fall was a much larger scale and more successful, so there was no hope of keeping it a secret.

3) They were traitor legions during the Heresy. But, they repented and became loyal to the Emperor again. Their reward for this was to have all record of them wiped away. Oblivion is better than heresy, after all.

4) They're on some top-secret long-term mission. For whatever reason (to keep their cover, what they've been assigned to do is heresy, etc), the Emperor thought it best if there was as little information as possible available on these legions. He couldn't hide the fact that they existed (that was too well documented), but he could remove any record about them and their gene-seed.

5) Something horrible happened with their gene-seed. It caused some terrible mutations, or presented a danger to others. The Emperor knew that if this went public, people would fear all Space Marines to demand their destruction. He figured the chance of this mutation happening to other gene-seeds to be worth the risk over loosing Space Marines all together.

Ruckdog wrote:The bottom line is that no one knows, principally because no one is supposed to know. If you listen to the recent interview 40k Radio did with Rick Priestley, he makes it pretty clear that the main reason the concept of two lost chapters and two missing primarchs was included in the game was to create a sense of mystery in the background fluff. So, speculation on the topic is fine (even encouraged!), but there is no official reason because if there were, it wouldn't be much of a mystery, would it? There is also the angle that having two missing chapters leaves players the option of creating their own founding legions/primarchs without contradicting official fluff.

My personal theory is that the two missing primarchs took the Emperor's favorite Land Raider for a spin and wrecked it...

Ugh reminds me of Mechanicum...

The problem with the Lost Legions being a "mystery" is that they're not a mystery, they're just an intentional gap left in the record. Mysteries are things that can be solved, and since there's nothing behind the Lost Legions, there's no true answer to the questions that they leave us. We can (and should, if so inclined) come up with answers ourselves, but these are no more a proper solution than a Fandex is an official army book.

Grakmar wrote:Out of universe answer: They exist so that players can design their own legions.



In universe answer: No one really knows what became of these chapters. Perhaps even the Emperor has forgotten what their fate was. (Being dead for 10,000 years has some adverse effects on memory, after all)

The best theories I've heard:
1) They did something worse than turn against the IoM and launch a massive attack. They became pacifists. And, everyone knows the 40k universe relies on constant warfare to continue existing. If the idea of pacifism spread throughout the Galaxy, the universe would end.

2) They fell to Chaos before Horus did and were wiped out quickly and before they could do much. The Emperor remove all record of them to prevent the spread of Chaos. Horus's fall was a much larger scale and more successful, so there was no hope of keeping it a secret.

3) They were traitor legions during the Heresy. But, they repented and became loyal to the Emperor again. Their reward for this was to have all record of them wiped away. Oblivion is better than heresy, after all.

4) They're on some top-secret long-term mission. For whatever reason (to keep their cover, what they've been assigned to do is heresy, etc), the Emperor thought it best if there was as little information as possible available on these legions. He couldn't hide the fact that they existed (that was too well documented), but he could remove any record about them and their gene-seed.

5) Something horrible happened with their gene-seed. It caused some terrible mutations, or presented a danger to others. The Emperor knew that if this went public, people would fear all Space Marines to demand their destruction. He figured the chance of this mutation happening to other gene-seeds to be worth the risk over loosing Space Marines all together.

3 & 4 can't be true if you take the Horus Heresy books as canon (which most people do). It's mentioned a couple of times of how the two missing primarchs were killed by the others and an oath was taken by all to never speak of them.

What if the primarchs killed them by accident before the Emperor got to them, so they toke an oath so the Emperor wouldn't find out.

They are a tribute to the lost Roman Legions.

But to answer as to why they were lost in 40k terms, well... In a HH book, it is implied that the SW destroyed one of them. And personally, I feel the other was sent to impose the Emporer's will on other galaxies.

Redshade wrote:What if the primarchs killed them by accident before the Emperor got to them, so they toke an oath so the Emperor wouldn't find out.

Because the Primarchs never left their planets until the Emperor showed up.

I mean say Leman Russ was found first and during the crusade he found a world with a primarch on it and when the world aposed him he bombed it, and later he found out what he did.

Yes, a sense of mystery...

Or.... the lore creators were lazy. Take your pick.

Thanks for the comments folks. Less interested in the "Well it was decided to leave a mystery in the game" and if you hear so and so talk about it that is made clear types of comments though. Guess I should have been a little more clear in my request. Looking more for "in history/game" reasons for why they would expunged like that, not the out of game reasons. I know the out of game reasons. Leave players space to make up their own bits a little, maybe a little laziness, some added mystery, etc.

The two primarchs taking out the emperor's land raider and wrecking it is a pretty funny concept.

Skriker