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HQ

Lysander with a Command Squad consisting of a Company Champion with Power Sword and Shield three veterans, one with Thunder Hammer and bolt pistol, one with Bolt pistol and chainsword, one with lightning claws and an Apothecary - 390

Librarian with Storm Shield with Null Zone and Avenger and a 5 man Terminator Assault Squad Riding in a Lascannon Land Raider - 590

Heavy Support

5 man Devastator Squad Missile Launchers - 165

Lascannon Predator - 165

Vindicator - 115

Troops

10 man Tactical Squads with Lascannon and a Melta Riding in Rhino - 240

10 man Tactical Squads with Lascannon and a Flamer - 185

Elite

Dreadnought Lascannon/CC weapon - 135

Total - 1985

This is everything in my army right now and what they'd run with

Hell of alot of Lascannons, to many? I'm thinking Plasma is needed? More Bullets?

Will amend with your suggestions.

Thanks.

Actually, as opposed to Plasma, I think you need more hard rounds, like TLAC dread arms, or an autocannon/HB predator. Ya, I would back off on the las cannons. What point total does this come to?

I'd organize it into a FoC for us to evaluate it easier, and include points costs. I think you'll get better feedback if you set up the OP that way.

I have given the points costs.

@CaptainGarro I think your right on the idea of more shells are needed.

Not sure where though yet.

More suggestions please as I know this list is far to expensive points wise to get me anywhere.

yes! finally some one who likes assault troops in land raider godhammer. I use that exact same thing before (librarien wth null zone and avenger, assault termi's). Drop off the termi's then pull the land raider back. You'll be suprised how easily they can get wrecked up close.


You are right though, your army will shred tank army's but will get bogged down in hordes. IMO drop the lascannons in the tactical squads and take heavy bolters or missile's. everything elses looks pretty good.

a word on plama, I used to love plasma pistols but after losing 3 sergeants in one game to there own weapons I became a little more cautious around them. Use plasma pistols ocasionaly but IMO plasma guns and cannons are a waste of time, points and your own men


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CaptainGarro wrote:Actually, as opposed to Plasma, I think you need more hard rounds, like TLAC dread arms, or an autocannon/HB predator. Ya, I would back off on the las cannons. What point total does this come to?

also I agree, give the dreadnought auto cannon.

To be perfectly honest, I would drop the lascannon predator and the vindicator, which will cut back 280 points. With that, I would add 2 Dakka Preds, a rhino for the 2nd tactical, and a LC Razorback for the devastators to make up for the lost las cannon shots. In objective based games you will still have trouble with only 2 scoring units.

@ andtheyshallknownofear
Godhammer Assault formations are more popular than the web would have you believe, I always run one.

oh thats good to know . I think you should keep the vindicator and either get another tactical squad or (I think there unpopular, I like them but again am prepared to hear they are popular) scout squads which can infiltrate right on top of objectives. In fact, with all that lascannon dropping thats going about you could probably get some nice rhino's to keep your tactical squad's safe

Ok this is what I've got your list looking like:

HQ - 140pts
Librarian +S.Shield

ELITES - 585pts
Terminator Assault Squad +Land Raider

Dreadnought +TL Lascannon

TROOPS - 400pts
Tactical Squad +5 Men, +Lascannon, +Flamer

Tactical Squad +5 Men, +Lascannon, +Meltagun, +Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT - 430pts
Devastor Squad +4 Missile Launchers

Vindicator

Predator +TL Lascannon, +Lascannon Side Sponsons

Your current point total is 1,555. You're 55pts over a normal 1,500pt game.

This isn't a bad first list. But it lacks some survivability for all the units. You have one Tac Squad of 10 just running around alone, you'll want to combat squad them since you're bringing the heavy weapon along to make it more useful. But that leaves them 5 strong and kind of weak. I'd also swap the flamer for another Metlagun, gives them more bite for a small increase in points.

Your Predator is to expensive. Drop the TL Lascannon turret and stick with the AC turret. This change alone gives you enough points for a second Rhino for your other Tac Squad and the Meltagun.

Also, for this point level I'd drop the Vindicator which would put you under the point cost and with the above change, I'd make the Tac Squads a little beefier with the Sergeant taking a Power Fist and the last few points give your Dreadnought the Missile Launcher arm to supplement his TL Lascannon main weapon and keep him for fire support.

Best of luck,
Cheers~


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Edit: With your addition of the Lysander + Command Squad puts you at 1,945pts.

Lysander with Command Squad and Libby with Assault Termies, just isn't the right mix. I would switch those. Since you're making Lysander's squad foot slog since they have no capability of being put into a vehicle other then a Drop Pod. And your list is not suited for Drop Podding Lysander anywhere away from supporting units.

Plus your putting a Terminator with non terminators and a non terminator in with all terminators, why the mix and match? Make your squads synergize and work together. You're mixing them up to much trying to make them jacks of all trades which in the long run just makes them excel at nothing.

I still think thats two many lascannons. If you dropped them on the tactical squad and the dreadnought that would save quite a bit of points. Lysander is a good choice though as he's a beast. Drop the vindicator and maybe take AC/HB for the predator (that still leaves you anti tank power in the Landraider which I have easily taken out two vehicles a turn with due to power of the machine spirit and the Devastators). Give the tactical squads ML or HB and that will save you a lot of points. Maybe drop the Librarien because Lysander is worth it. All of this is just my opinion. I have had people rage my lists before and I think that is point less so this is just suggestions

Also, a fun Imperial fist army unit is Sternguard, as Lysanders bolter drill special rule combined with the Sternguard Spec Ammo is quite useful.

I find it funny that 8 Lascannons is considered too many. I have 10 Lascannons in my 1500 BA list. It's possible to have a decent IG list with 15+ Lascannons in it. I agree that the OP's list could be better, but I think the real issue is the lack of redundancy in the list.

OP, I think you need to get a third Tactical Squad, and make sure each Tactical Squad has a transport. As others have said, Lysander & Co. isn't going to do much footslogging. I would drop him and the Command Squad altogether.

One general fact about Space Marine characters is that they tend to be primarily useful for giving you force multipliers, things that make the rest of your army better or allow you to alter the Force Org Chart. As an example from your codex, consider Vulkan. His Chapter Tactics can make a lot of units significantly better if you build an army around him. Lysander's Chapter Tactics, sadly, doesn't do you much good. In fact, I would personally prefer Combat Tactics over Stubborn for most SM lists. Lysander's main ability is that he's pretty good at CC, but that generally isn't worth 200 points. If you do want to use him, give him a ride, like a Land Raider. I'd suggest you go with just the Librarian.

My last suggestion is that you pick one Heavy Support choice, and take three of it. You can't afford three Land Raiders, and Devastators, Thunderfire Cannons and Whirlwinds are terrible, so that leaves you with Predators and Vindicators. Three Autocannon/Lascannon Predators is probably the best choice. You want a lot of redundancy in your list, so your opponent can't cripple you by destroying the one or two things that most threaten him.

As an example, here's how I would approach your list. At 2000 points, I have 5 Lascannon/TL-Plasmagun Razorbacks, 3 Baal Predators (which have a TL-Assault Cannon turret), 3 Auto/Las Predators, and 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts. My Librarian HQ gives me 5+ cover for everything within 6" of him. By far, the most threatening things in your list are the Predator and the Land Raider, so I would focus on them first. Without doing the complicated math, I believe that I can expect to destroy at least one vehicle per turn plus Stun/Shake 1-2 more. My Baals can Scout, and I will assign them to destroying the Land Raider; I'm completely willing to sacrifice them if necessary. As you can see, after a few rounds of this you're likely to have a wrecked/immobilized Land Raider and no Predator, Vindicator or Dreadnought. After that, you don't have much ability to threaten my vehicles. The Devastators can, but they can only target one vehicle per turn, and all five have only a 37% chance of doing something permanent to an AV13 vehicle anyway.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I think your best bet to make a good starting army is to go with 3 Tac Squads + Rhinos/Razorbacks + Librarain + Predators + Assault Termies.