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It's not uncommon for my Tyranids to take a blob of 10-20 Termagants to sit in cover on an objective. They don't register high on the threat radar, and tend to be given second priority for killing over more powerful units. I like to keep them that way, so they're not getting shot at from turn 1 like Devilgaunts would be. Pondering if want Spike Rifles for 2e nostalgia and to give them more chances to shoot stuff without having to get within charge distance or soaking up loads of points.

Stranglewebs, OTOH, actually strike me as potentially useful, though not for inflicting damage. If I'm taking a bunch of Tervigons, my frontline Gaunt blobs are going to be automatically roided up; enabling them to throw out a pinning test before charging - with a bunch of Biovores and Barbed Stranglers knocking about to throw more and more pinning tests around to give a real chance of forcing a fail - could make for a nasty surprise when people are expecting cover to give them first shot in a ruck with I5 S4 poisoned Gaunts.

Anyone given either a try?

I can see Stranglewebs being occasionally useful, but spike rifles just look awful to me. Don't know why anyone would ever take them.

Both are awful.

I think they were only included as a retro reference.

The strangleweb isn't even good for hunting grots...

I just arm my Termagants with the basic Fleshborer. Makes 'em nice and cheap, then I buff them with a Tervigon.

I can't remember what the Strangleweb does, so it must be something fairly unspectactular that I decided long ago not to put on any units.

As I've gained experience with Tyranids I have tended to strip back the army to fairly basic units and not mess around much with options.

Strangleweb is a S 2 flamer that hits your Str not your T.

It's a bit pathetic.

Ascalam wrote:Strangleweb is a S 2 flamer that hits your Str not your T.

And causes Pinning tests.

It's purpose is not to cause mass casualties, but to get one casualty that forces a pinning test to be taken. I'm sure I can see a role for that - perhaps not a tourney-level role - in lists that use Tervigon-boosted blobs as assault troops and have several pinning-causing weapons in the list. Striking first when charging MEQs in cover is not to be sniffed at. Not getting shot to pieces when fluffing a Difficult Terrain test to charge a big Guard blob is not to be sniffed at. Question is, is it worth paying 10pts - 0.5 PPM in a 20-strong blob - for the upgrade? An additional 5pts for a Devilgaunt Spodding squad (already costing a Land Raider's points) to have two chances at disabling a Devastator-type squad?

Ok, and it pins

It's still a S 2 weapon. It's chances of getting a wound that actually hurts something are near nil, and most armies have decent LD, making it a rather chancy gamble. I can see it coming off once in a while, but it really doesn't seem worth it.

Pinning is rubbish against everyone except Tau.

I can safely say that spike rifles are one of the best terminator killers out there!!! (No joke)

no joke, just delusional ..

Devourer worm-spamming yes, spike rifles no.

Ascalam wrote:no joke, just delusional ..

Well when your spike rifle armed gaunts have killed about 145 terminators I think it's beyond delusional

OK, and how many have your devourer-spamming ones killed int eh same space of time.

I have killed upwards of a hundred terminators with grot blastas. It does not make the grot blasta a good gun

Ascalam wrote:OK, and how many have your devourer-spamming ones killed int eh same space of time.

I have killed upwards of a hundred terminators with grot blastas. It does not make the grot blasta a good gun

Very true but as you can see I never said that spike rifles were a good all round gun I said they were good terminator killers as are grot blasters... generally thing that shouldn't be good terminator killers... are.

as to my devourers, they have only killed about 80 terminators as I stopped using them against terminators when I realised that the spike rifles could do it better

For a pickup game I might through the strangle web in if I have the points. Otherwise, I'd rather deck out my Carnies

Turkeysaurus_Rex wrote:

Ascalam wrote:OK, and how many have your devourer-spamming ones killed int eh same space of time.

I have killed upwards of a hundred terminators with grot blastas. It does not make the grot blasta a good gun

Very true but as you can see I never said that spike rifles were a good all round gun I said they were good terminator killers as are grot blasters... generally thing that shouldn't be good terminator killers... are.

as to my devourers, they have only killed about 80 terminators as I stopped using them against terminators when I realised that the spike rifles could do it better

Actually my grots are lousy at killing Terminators. I just go up against them so bleedin' often that their kill score is high. They do it by spamming the target with a lot of hits, rather than being any good.

I'm not a huge fan of Mathhammer, but here you go.

The Spike rifle is S 3, 18 '' S 3 Ap - Assault 1 running on a BS of 3. A 30 strong brood in optimal conditions (all in range and alive) will fire 30 shots, hit with 15, wound 2-3 termies in 5's (2-3 wounds) , and have one, statistically, fall over on a 50/50 chance (1/2 a termie dies, on average ). The Termagant sqad will be a bit cheaper, but not too effective. You may as well close the gap a little more and use fleshborers.


The Devourer is S 4 18'' Ap - Assault 3. running on a BS of 3. A 30 strong brood in the same setup as above will fire 90 shots, hit with 45, wound with 22-23 (on 4's), and have, statistically, 3-4 fall over with the odds being closer to 4.


How exactly do Spike Rifles do it better? I've not played tyranids in a while, so i may be missing a special rule on the weapon somewhere? Not being snarky, just curious, becase if spike rifles are more lethal to my Meganobz than devourers I may have to change my tactics vs Nids


The Devourer is effectively 3 spike rifles on steroids wired together. It is in every way a better gun, as far as I can see, barring the fact that it is a few more points per model. The Fleshborer is better in every way except for range (and the difference is pretty small) for cheaper.

I can only assume that you have a wierd bio-synthesis with Spike Rifles that allows you to roll awesome and make those foes always roll ones

Your point is well-made, although in your initial calculation, I'm not sure how 15 S3 hits only average 2-3 wounds on T4.

It was all very rough and ready math

I don't tend to mathhammer much, as my math-fu can be weak when i'm tired.

15 hits at S 3, wounding on 5's vs T 4.

1/3 will wound on average, so that ought to be 5 wounds rather than 1 Sorry about that

End result of 1 dead termie.

*edit for absiolutely abysmal math-fu correction . I'm tired

You have to account for points costs in your mathhammer. 30 SR Gaunts aren't comparable to 30 Devilgaunts. Let's spend 150pts on each, and see how we fare.

150pts buys 30 FB Gaunts. They hit Terminators 15 times, they wound them 7.5 times, and kill 1.25 of them.

150pts buys 25 SR Gaunts. They hit Terminators 12.5 times, they wound them 4.17 times, and kill 0.69 of them.

150pts buys 15 Devilgaunts. Terminators 22.5 times, they wound them 11.25 times, and kill 1.875 of them.

However, there's a lot more going on than pure mathhammer.

In the Devilgaunts' favour, they can damage light vehicles and have the largest threat radius. Against them, they have low numbers - 15 failed cover saves will remove this scoring unit - and having a deadly reputation will make them a higher priority target. They do pretty good as a Spod unit, having a good chance of wiping out a Missilefang unit and being guaranteed a shooting phase before any mortars hit them, but for baseline objective control they have serious issues.

In the FB Gaunts' favour, they have great numbers and can damage light vehicles. Against them, they have to get within 12" to use their guns. For an objective camping unit, this can be a problem; if they can shoot a unit, it almost certainly can charge them. And to get most of them shooting, you have to get well and truly into charge range and really cross your fingers about the enemy's difficult terrain checks.

In the SR Gaunts' favour, they have fairly good numbers, and can shoot a unit without necessarily exposing themselves to a charge. Having a low S weapon could also make them be perceived as a lower priority target, whilst they can shoot less effectively but more safely than the shorter ranged FB. I can see an argument for them being capable campers.

If you double the number of spikegaunts it's still less effective, on average, than one unit of Dev-gaunts.

I'm not saying Spikerifle gaunts are useless. I'm saying that Dev-gaunts are better vs Terminators, which was the argument in question.

Spikerifles have their place, but dealing with Terminators is not it They make decent longer-ranged fleshborers (with no AP, but vs anything but orks and eldar (and guard?) it's all the same anyway) for objective sitting behind cover. If you are planning on plinking from range they are ok, ish. By and large though the Fleshborer does much the same job for less points (as they do add up quick) at marginally shorter range.

Evidently my gaunts must be lucky as on average they will kill about 3 terminators for every 30 gaunts that fire...

Then again I have never really believed in mathhammer so that may have something to do with it

Not really a huge fan of it myself, as math is not my best subject If you can roll lucky with them go for it

I've found that certain units sometimes seem to buck the law of averages, anyway. My flash gitz are way more prone than usualy to immolating themselves if i upgrade their guns, for example, whereas my Deffkoptas are lethally accurate beyond the statistical average