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Let's debate between the two types of terrain that is commonly used in all wargames and in roleplaying games. I have built both types and I wanna see you opinions
here's the criteria I look at:
-price
-durability
-requires skill
-material needed
-storage
-paper terrain-
-Price: it looks like a cheap alternative to terrain builds buy the pdf and print on cardstock
-Durability: it's paper it won't survive a accidental wetting or maybe the weight of certain models especially metal ones.
-skills:It pretty easy to make paper terrain and doesn't require special skills
-materials: Not much printer,paper, pdf,glue and razor
-storage:unless glued it can be taken apart

I don't see the debate yet.

Paper terrain is a good low-cost substitute for "actual" terrain with the drawbacks that it's not durable and often doesn't look like anything but flimsy paper terrain.

Actual terrain is always more expensive and typically more labor intensive, but is more interactive and lasts longer.

sourclams wrote:I don't see the debate yet.

Paper terrain is a good low-cost substitute for "actual" terrain with the drawbacks that it's not durable and often doesn't look like anything but flimsy paper terrain.

Actual terrain is always more expensive and typically more labor intensive, but is more interactive and lasts longer.

I feel you but, When I do actual terrain project it does eat up alot of my time hobbying and it is very messy! I.E. plastic shavings,foam, paints,brushes, flocking and gadets. It takes up alot of space! I seen alot of nicely done tables with large towers and whatnots and one question always comes to mind...WHERE THE HELL DO YOU STORE IT??
On paper terrain there are different suppliers like worldworks that makes paper terrain that is pretty awesome that a terrain bulider couldn't replicate!
I really like this kit from here: http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=306
FYI don't get me started on those people who make papermodels of 40k tanks...

Imagine an origami leamon russ. O_o

I'm a slow and easily distracted hobbyist so on paper (lol) paper terrain sounds ideal for me. However I find playing on a nice board with decent modelled terrain actually shames me into knuckling down and getting some painting done.

Even though its expensive and time consuming to make/buy proper terrain not to mention the storage issue, I still always feel like a cheat or just plain uninspired about a battle fought with stand in or paper terrain.

I'm sure we've all done the whole this box is a hill, this toilet roll tube is a tree thing which is fine in a pinch but nothing beats proper terrain.

haloreach4ever wrote:Imagine an origami leamon russ. O_o

there is such a thing! there also a paper warhound template out there1

I plan on using some of this to play Flames of War:

http://www.paperterrain.com/

And this for Infinity:

http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/

Both looks fantastic. And will be much cheaper than getting 'hard' terrain - especially for Infinity, which needs a LOT of terrain.

The Infinity terrain posted above looks awesome, and I think it really fits for Infinity. Paper terrain overall doesn't generally excite me though. I'll take it over upturned shoeboxes and soda cans, but 3D terrain, from a kit or from scratch, will always inspire me more. I have some of the cardstock terrain GW made back in the early 90s with Necromunda and 40k 2nd ed and I think it looks pretty goofy, but it's fun to play on.

haloreach4ever wrote:Imagine an origami leamon russ. O_o

Someone hasn't played old polygon graphics tank games.

I meen like paper folded not lots of bits tuck together.

Not much of a debate for me personally. I like both equally.

The biggest advantage to paper terrain for me is storage. Take it apart and store it nicely and neatly. Real terrain becomes a problem once you start having enough to fill at least one table. I'm talking of course of one's own storage at home.

The obvious big advantage for real terrain is just that...it's real. If it's done nicely it enhances the game experience greatly.

No shortage of confetti to use as rubble.......

I'm surprised to see no one said anything about printing paper terrain and how much ink it eats up! I went through atleast 2 color ink cartridges I "borrowed" from work!

I like paper terrain in theory as a low-cost, low-effort alternative, but I haven't seen any that would actually work out cheaper than plastics. Printing it at home is completely nonviable at current ink prices (and that's on top of what you pay for the pdf) and pre-printed isn't much cheaper than, say, Cities of Death plastics. Or those nice gothic buildings from Pegasus, if you're allergic to GW.

For example, I really like the Malifaux terrain, but to cover a 6x4 table you'd need at least 3 sets, and by that point you're paying as much as an Imperial City costs.

Well, obviously an Imperial City isn't going to do you any good if you want to play fantasy skirmish. I would still buy the Malifaux terrain for that... but let's not pretend that it's cheap.

Would avoid paper terrain at all costs. I completely understand why it is a short-term alternative, the advantages in storage, ease of assembly etc. But there's just something about the lack of weight and solidity . . . give me plastic/resin/hardfoam/etc terrain, preferably based on wood, anytime.

Dahl Corp. wrote:WHERE THE HELL DO YOU STORE IT??

Well built model terrain is much easier to store than paper terrain as you can stack it. Paper terrain just gets crushed if you do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord_blackfang wrote:For example, I really like the Malifaux terrain, but to cover a 6x4 table you'd need at least 3 sets, and by that point you're paying as much as an Imperial City costs.

An imperial sector doesn't come anywhere near covering a 6x4. Two boxes and some extras doesn't cover a 6x4 to the same level of density as the malifaux stuff.

Scott-S6 wrote:An imperial sector doesn't come anywhere near covering a 6x4. Two boxes and some extras doesn't cover a 6x4 to the same level of density as the malifaux stuff.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if the box contains what's on the cover... that's a 2x2 ft section. You'd need 6 boxes to cover a table as densely as on the pic. The same money would get you nearly two Cities (not Sectors, Cities).



Admittedly, you also get base-plates, unlike cities of death. But that also means you have to buy enough sets to cover the whole surface, you can't just use it on part of the table.
Of course it's not meant for 6x4 tables. Malifaux is 3x3, right? That means you have to buy two sets, and that's reasonable. But I don't think it's any cheaper than plastic for the amount you get.

I am also of the mind that paper terrain is a quick fix but solid sets help hold models and stack well in a box in the corner. My friend has the Gorka Morka paper fort and while it's in good condition, you can see where the glue/tape/etc broke on the edges causing it to collapse. It sits on the top of the terrain pieces now awaiting a foam/plastic version to be made.

Hmm terrain making...thanks for the thread. I think I'll go work on my tree sections and perhaps make that Gorka Morka fort now.

"Paper" as opposed to... ?



I use the paper printouts as covering for either carstock, foam cored poster board, or styrofoam sheet.

I do not agree with the arguments about the cardstock scenery. I've had nothing but success in my dealing with Dagbah daves, stuff, the endless supply of free scenery that is available out there on the web, and the innovation that I have used in pasting it to the other stuff.

I used styrofoam in many different ways, either in painting over and flocking it, spraying glue and speading sand over it, then painting it, to using flock and some sticks, to adding in plastic card to the foam covered "Paper" castles, houses, industrial buildings, etc.

For one, the use of "Paper" for the scenery is then to use it as an add on to cardbaord, foam board, or the aforementioned materials, for the other- Kits that are out there are pretty much ad hoc, anyway- you can use the whole kit, bits, or the kitbash method to make your own scenery.


Take for example the Gorkamorka fort- You could quite literally combine that fort, a styrofoam base, and expansion sets from the Necromunda terraign set to combine to make a three or four tire fort. You can go and photocopy the parts, use them to expand the fort in two or three other different directions, and add in plasticard to the walls and cealing to reinforce the printed area.

A couple of parts from a fishtank, and there you got a whole complex for your fort.

There is no "Better" here.

Right off of the printer, you have a a photocopied basic structure. Its entirly up to you how you expand it.

Infinity has several FREE sets out there. You combine those with some off the shelf stuff from your local hardware store, and you can expand your collection and include any number of options for the table.

I havea collection of templates, sets, CD's, people I know, and others that I don't that have expansive plans for scenery. Some with nothing but a sheet of foam board, a box of popsical sticks, and some flocking.

On par- BOTH are inexspensive, take some skill to put together and time is relative. Picking up a few of the ones that Daves got, I've been able to fill a 8X8 table, and had more for expansion to a 2X2 to the table.

The more I look at paper scenery, the more it looks like something I could get into. It's not as good as real scenery, but I'm going to have a cash and storage space problem for some time, so...

And one thing I really love about paper scenery is it would be very easy for me to customize. I know my way around Photoshop, so it wouldn't be very hard for me to convert existing paper designs into something that is truly custom. It would just be cool to have sci-fi terrain, with vid screens that have photographs of your own minis on them.

But that said, the need to print on cardstock or support with foam core makes it look like there is a lot more to paper terrain than just printing, folding, and cutting it, especially if you are making structures that models can stand on safely.

Way back before I'd ever heard of miniatures or thought of using miniatures to play games with, I built a paper fortress to use with my friends in a table-top pen & paper RPG. This was a very simple affair, mostly made of graph paper and scotch tape. Instead of miniatures we just used paper strips folded to stand up with the character's name written on it in pen. And it still took me basically the whole day to build.

I like the look of that Terraclips system because the plastic connectors would give me the right combination of strength and customizablity, but unfortunately it doesn't look like they have much variety using that system yet. That Terrain LinX system World Works Games uses seems to have a lot more stuff available, but I'm skeptical that the paper connectors will really hold up to enough wear and tear.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:An imperial sector doesn't come anywhere near covering a 6x4. Two boxes and some extras doesn't cover a 6x4 to the same level of density as the malifaux stuff.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if the box contains what's on the cover... that's a 2x2 ft section. You'd need 6 boxes to cover a table as densely as on the pic. The same money would get you nearly two Cities (not Sectors, Cities).

It's 2.5 x 2 in those packs. That's a dense chunk of buildings plus baseplates, roads, etc.

An imperial sector is $90. I have two of them and a bunch of extras and it doesn't cover a 6x4 to anything like the level of density that four of the malifaux sets will.

Dahl Corp. wrote:

haloreach4ever wrote:Imagine an origami leamon russ. O_o

there is such a thing! there also a paper warhound template out there1

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14215

Id love to get a hold of the old Necromunda terrain set. GW sold it a while back as Hive City terrain or something like that. I wouldnt mind being able to pick up 2 or 3 set, brand new of coursse.

I sit somewhere in the middle on paper terrain. Even a few months ago, I never gave a piece I came across a second look, but I've come to consider it a viable option for turning simple foamcore/cardboard/plasticard structures into reasonably attractive terrain.

Getting into Infinity has made all the difference, for me. Seeing examples of paper-skinned foamcore buildings on the CB forums was an eye-opener. What really surprised me, though, were the short introductory/explanatory videos on the website. In those, I saw quality paper terrain and well-painted miniatures together for the first time - and they looked good.

Now, I'm still not sold on the all-paper boards, like those linked above. Overly complex designs on overly simple shapes don't feel right, to my eye. It's like throwing modern skins over an old game's polygons - there's a disparity between fit and finish that just doesn't feel right. The lack of appropriate thickness in projecting parts (or the total lack thereof) is off-putting, as well.

Subtle or limited uses of skinning, though, can definitely work. I found some paper dumpsters and shipping containers online a little while ago. Using the skins as templates and attaching them to appropriately shaped plasticard understructures has yielded some rather sturdy and attractive scatter terrain. They took a fraction of the time, effort, and material cost that scratchbuilding (or buying) and painting their visual equivalents would have.

I'll continue, I imagine, in this way - occasionally using free paper terrain as a combination template and skin for scatter terrain and accessories (instrument panels and the like), but continuing to build, detail, and paint the big stuff.