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I'm starting up a Bretonnian army and am still pretty weak knowledge-wise in WHFB. Any C&C would be welcome, especially if I'm doing something seriously wrong here. I'm expecting my usual opponent to be playing Orcs & Gobbs and another playing Empire. Currently my thoughts are to put my BSB in with my Errants and go hunting my opponent's gunners, my Lord with the Pegasus Knights to hunt war engines and monsters, and scattering my Ladies around just to make sure nothing goes really bad when one of them gets killed. My MaA can be used as fodder for a unit that I need to tie up for a round or two, or to help protect my bowmen from scouts/infiltrators.

Again, any suggestions or advice would be welcome.

Pts Unit
---------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
246 | Lord on Royal Pegasus (Charmed Shield, Seed of Rebirth, Sword of Swift Slaying, Virtue of Heroism)

086 | Paladin on Warhorse (BSB, Banner of Chalons, Shield)

080 | Paladin on Warhorse (Lance, Shield)

080 | Paladin on Warhorse (Lance, Shield)

080 | Paladin on Warhorse (Lance, Shield)

095 | Damsel of the Lady on Warhorse (Channeling Staff)

100 | Damsel of the Lady on Warhorse (Power Stone)

105 | Damsel of the Lady on Warhorse (Dispel Scroll)

120 | Damsel of the Lady on Warhorse (The Silver Mirror)

289 | Knights of the Realm x10 (Musician, War Banner)

289 | Knights of the Realm x10 (Musician, War Banner)

289 | Knights of the Realm x10 (Musician, War Banner)

246 | Knights Errant x10 (Musician, War Banner)

130 | Peasant Bowmen x20 (Braziers, Musician)

130 | Peasant Bowmen x20 (Braziers, Musician)

140 | Men at Arms x25 (Musician, Standard Bearer)

140 | Men at Arms x25 (Musician, Standard Bearer)

175 | Pegasus Knights x3 (Musican)

090 | Field Trebuchet

090 | Field Trebuchet

Maybe just make them a big unit of men at arms.

In my games against them small units got eaten or ran first turn where as the larger units 50 or 60 stuck around atleast a turn or 2.

Liking the amount of magic you can possibly cast and the amount of dispel dice you can generate.

I dont see why you dont just field 6 trebs unless you are playing 2999 points.

Bow men have never done anything against me maybe 1 or 2 kills tops.

Check out round table of brettonia they may be able to help you more.

I think the bowmen are there to knock down rejen cow...

I only field twoTrebuchets because that's what I have. I suppose I could put the Trebs toward the center and move the bowmen on the outside so they block infiltrators/scouts. That'd let me combine my MaA to speedbump a Steam Tank or something.

But why not just get more M@A they can do more for you bow men just I dont see them being useful I have never seen them do anything productive they even do a bad job at taking up space sorry to say.


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What do you normally play against if you dont mind me asking?

LIke everyone else has said, you need more M@A.

Bowmen are terrible. With BS 2 - they will barely hit anything at short range and for the points limit that is a really big sink.

20 bowmen - hitting at either long range (not moving)
- hit just over 3 times.
- Against toughness 3 - you will get maybe 2 hitting (rounding up). expect two turns of shooting before combat... and you can expect your opponent to save one of those hits (advantage given due to rounding up earlier). 1

IMO - 120 points per unit is wasted to kill 2 models a game worth a total of 12 points.

I'd suggest trading them for more M@A or yeomen.

Yeomen will give you the ability to shoot (same chance but they are great at helping your knights get a flank attack in and mitigate large infantry and they are generally too small for your opponent to worry about early. They can also chase the enemy down when your nights crack them (fast cav).

M@A are good for a central unit that just has a crack at any thing. They will probably run, but their points is worth it. You can then ignore that unit for a turn or two as your knight deal with your real targets.

Eagle


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What I will add is that I really really really like the base model paladins - I'm going to start putting them in my units. Great way to get that first round combat.

I've found the BSB really powerful as 'war banner' and 'virtue of duty' as you get 3+ combat res just from him, add 1 for the banner in the unit, another for charging and that is 5! without taking into account a flank charge or killing anything. I'd be impressed to see an enemy get those points back against armour 2 knights! I use this set up in my knight errants. Give them the erranty banner and BAM, you've got combat res first round combat!

The banner of chalons is better in another unit as its unit banner. THis way you can multi charge a unit with ranged weapons, have these guys go first and the enemy cannot stand and shoot ZING.


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As a side note - be careful of models that can only be wounded by magic weapons.... you will struggle. You can fix that with grail knights or maybe giving your paladins the cheap magic weapons (5 points ones)

My friend tried that against Mok warriors with halberds along with 2 flank charges to say the least um I slaughtered him all his units were taking leadership on 3 or 4 at best.

Against anything else that would work pretty well especially ranks in the flank hurt.

But yes more M@A the bsb with the banner is a good choice tho that extra +3 to combat is great and that extra str is good too only downside is terrible ws for them being knights.

My friend tried that against Mok warriors with halberds along with 2 flank charges to say the least um I slaughtered him all his units were taking leadership on 3 or 4 at best.

Against anything else that would work pretty well especially ranks in the flank hurt.

Tried what? Chaos warriors are deadly against Knights. The only way to take them is massive multi-charge, AFTER you have pummelled them with magic or ranged weapons - sadly Brets have few decent ranged weapons.

Cowpow has a good point, but you can avoid 'that unit of MoK warriors' by using your M@A to stay at distance and keep the warriors fail charging them as you use you knights else where. Once the warriors catch up with the M@A and they will, its OK because they should chase them off the board and be far away from the fighting. That way you have avoided that 400+ point limit unit for most of the game (if not all).

But yes more M@A the bsb with the banner is a good choice tho that extra +3 to combat is great and that extra str is good too only downside is terrible ws for them being knights.

The banner is really good and it pays for itself pretty quick. I know the knights are only WS3, and this is why they need to support. I did a calc on WS4 with S5 (KoR) and WS3 with S6 (KE with banner) and the KE come out on top vrs higher toughness units - and that sold me, as they are much cheaper. Add in the immune to psyc on the charge means that they can chase the bigger things off the board.

Eagle

Bowmen are BS3. You can only have one of each magic item, so you'll have to change the War Banners on your knights units so that there is only one in your army. Each unit can have a standard bearer, just not the War Banner banner.

you are correct. My bad they are WS 2 and BS 3.

So my maths re-worked.

20 Bowmen (at long range against str 3 enemy with light armour and shield)

8 x hits
4 x wound

Expect them to save 1-2 times (lets say twice for 'worst case').

So we are now killed two models at turn. This costs you 120pts (without any upgrades) and it is costing them 12-14 points per turn.

Your lords going to get blown out of the sky same way monsters and greater daemons do except hes a lot more fragile a single bolt thrower will squat your lord

I played an all knight list for a while and I have a few observations: a unit of 12 knights is always better than a unit of 10. I always fielded my knights in blocks of 9 or 12, 8 or 11 if a hero was going to ride with them. That way you get the most out of delta formation. Also if you lose one or three you still have a few ranks for combat resolution.

That said it looks like your running a damsel and paladin in each block? The damsel is risky in your charging units. If the enemy doesn't break, or godforbid you do, you're losing some very important dispel power when the unit gets wiped.

Damsels are there simply to dispel. I wouldn't cast much. Having 4 damsels seems to be a lot. I always fielded 2 as scroll caddies - 2 dispel scrolls each.

Your lord is going to get plucked out of the sky. Keep the peg knights by themselves for WM hunting - especially against the empire great cannons. Those cannons will tear through your armor faster than you can say "ward save"

Always pray

Grail knights are amazing against monsters.

bowmen have always treated me well as a babysitter for the damsels. I've liked bowmen and they were my only exception for my all knight list (tho sometimes I did leave the bows at home)

Fortunatly for you human, and even moreso, ork and goblin leadership is poor to mediocre at best. Pray to charge and charge well. That banner you took is great. I have also made good use of the twilight banner.

At any rate, the most important thing to remember is Brets are not the most competitive army out there right now. It's critical to have fun with them. When you stop having fun, it's time to change.... and that's what happened with me.

They really are not that great bow men are just I dont even know M@A are much better they stick around longer etc.

THe trebs are great and fro 90 pts omg so awesome.

m14 wrote:Bowmen are BS3. You can only have one of each magic item, so you'll have to change the War Banners on your knights units so that there is only one in your army. Each unit can have a standard bearer, just not the War Banner banner.

I thought that common items didn't have that restriction. Guess I'll have to stop skimming past important parts of the rulebook. :/

Yea haha dont worry it happens to everyone you think you are all good and then oh I have 2 of the same weapon and 2 of the same banner

But ya maybe try a spell breaker.

if you wanna keep your lord in the sky - give him the talisman that only lets him lose one wound per phase. This way he is pretty much going to make combat. I think it might be something crazy like 55 points? A locket?