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Ok, so I'm putting together a new list because I want to boost my points so I can play some of mates' stronger lists. The newest additions to my army is Abaddon who is just an absolute beast, a land raider, and obliterators. I've also decided to use plague marines over CSMs cause in the past they've seemed to last a bit longer for me. So here is the new list:

HQ:
Abaddon
Daemon Prince, Wings, MoS, Lash
430pts

Troops:
8x Berzerkers, Skull Champion, PF, Meltabombs
7x Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino, Havoc Launcher
7x Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino, Havoc Launcher
665pts

Heavy Support:
2x Obliterators
Land Raider, Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcher
405pts

Total 1500pts

My biggest problem in the past has been dark eldar and that is one of the bigger armies I'm going to be up against. Any thoughts/changes/tactics for this list would be a huge help.

Firstly, get rid of the meltabombs and all the Havoc launchers. Then you can take a Daemon Prince with Wings, MoN and Warptime instead of Abaddon. Finally with the points you have left you can either take some termies in the raider or get rid of the raider for more oblits.

Agreed w/ Phok. A 2nd Prince will increase your threat density, and chaos LR needs PotMS.

Well, I'd drop the ancient LR and Abby, and play more defensely with counter-strike.
Add a 2nd DP as said and max-out the number of Oblits.

Against DE you're going to want more long-ranged shooting to take down the ravagers and raiders from across the table, so you can beat them piecemeal in HtH and so you aren't being lit up by darklances and splinter cannons.

Other than that, the other thing you generally want is more bodies. Splinter weapons are good at chewing small numbers of guys up, but struggle against larger numbers with 3+ saves.

Abaddon and the LR really eat up a ton of points which reduces both how much shooting you have and how many bodies you have.

wtwlf123 wrote:Agreed w/ Phok. A 2nd Prince will increase your threat density, and chaos LR needs PotMS.

Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Chaos LR got PotMS - I thought that was a loyalist ability. Doesn't daemonic possession do basically the same thing (except allow split-fire)? I'm kind of new to Chaos, but that was my understanding.

I was a little unsure about running two DPs, but so far most people seem to think it's a good idea so I'll give it a go. I kind of wanted to keep abby and the LR and use the LR to transport Abaddon and the zerkers and basically use that for objective camping, but I also agree that I will probably need more firepower against DE, I just didn't want to sell myself short against other armies and only plan for DE.

As for maxing out Oblits, is 5 or 6 overkill? Maybe just keep it at 4 and bring in a csm troop?

As for maxing out Oblits, is 5 or 6 overkill? Maybe just keep it at 4 and bring in a csm troop?

I usually go out with 6 Obliterators while Mannahin will tell you that a small Havoc squad with missile launchers plus 4 Oblits is the way to go.

Slashx24 wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:Agreed w/ Phok. A 2nd Prince will increase your threat density, and chaos LR needs PotMS.

Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Chaos LR got PotMS - I thought that was a loyalist ability. Doesn't daemonic possession do basically the same thing (except allow split-fire)? I'm kind of new to Chaos, but that was my understanding.

They can't. That's why they're bad.

And Possession isn't the same thing at all. PotMS allows you to fire an additional weapon when moving, and allows you to fire it at a different target than the rest of the weapons. The reason why Chaos LRs are so bad is because you can't effectively move and shoot with them.

..........

I take 6 oblits, in 3 squads of 2.

Ok so if I just drop abaddon and the land raider, pick up an extra rhino for the berzerkers, increase the obliterators, and a few small changes I have:

DP, wings, MoS, lash 155
DP, wings, MoN, warptime 175

8 berzerkers, champ, pf, rhino 238
7 plague marines, 2 meltas, rhino 211
7 plague marines, 2 plasmas, rhino 221

2 oblits 150
2 oblits 150
2 oblits 150

This leaves 50pts to spend. Do I boost the plague marines and berzerker numbers or put the havoc launcers back on to help with lash?

Locks quite good. You could drop 2 Oblits and take a small unit of Havocs with missile launchers or autocannons.

Kinda affraid that i will get burnt in here, since i'm actually also building a 1500 tourney list... but i think the LR is good for the zerks, i mean if i face your list, the first thing i'll shoot my oblies at is your zerks rhino, the 2 DPs are hard to deal with, yes but the zerks are just as deadly and if their rhino get blown up they'll be shot to death before they can charge and the oblies will be taken down 1 by 1 with str 8+ weapons since you wont have any unit besides the DPs to lock the enemy range units in combat.

Abbie+zerks are great to take care of pretty much anything you go against (as long as you don't roll a 1 on the weapon) however for 1500 is way to expensive i'd just keep the LR to ensure that my zerks will get there and do their job, collect the skulls of anything that would threat my plague marines.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention to drop daemonic possession and havoc from it, if you get any upgrade it should be extra armor. Also i'd go with combi-meltas on the rhinos, nothing feels better than having your rhino blow up a leman russ or a land raider on the 2nd turn.

Slashx24 wrote:Ok so if I just drop abaddon and the land raider, pick up an extra rhino for the berzerkers, increase the obliterators, and a few small changes I have:

DP, wings, MoS, lash 155
DP, wings, MoN, warptime 175

8 berzerkers, champ, pf, rhino 238
7 plague marines, 2 meltas, rhino 211
7 plague marines, 2 plasmas, rhino 221

2 oblits 150
2 oblits 150
2 oblits 150

This leaves 50pts to spend. Do I boost the plague marines and berzerker numbers or put the havoc launcers back on to help with lash?

This list looks much better.

I'd add a champ w/ combi-melta to the melta squad, and consider extra armor for the 'zerkers rhino. And/or combi-meltas for your rhinos.

Realised I'd been calculating rhinos as 30 instead of 35 for some reason... This is what I have now with the points available:

DP, Wings, MoS, Lash 155
DP, Wings, MoN, Warptime 175

8x Berzerkers, Skull Champion, PF, Rhino, Extra Armour, Combi-melta 268
7x Plague Marines, 2 Meltas, Rhino, Combi-melta 226
7x Plague Marines, 2 Plasmas, Rhino 226

2x Obliterators 150
2x Obliterators 150
2x Obliterators 150

Total 1500.

I went for the combis and extra armour over the plague champion because I want my rhinos to be able to still do something other than be dedicated transport, mostly as extra firepower for when my DP starts lashing. I'm hoping this is the best way to go for my army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
May have that combi on the other plague rhino instead of the 'zerker one...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Yayula wrote:Abbie+zerks are great to take care of pretty much anything you go against (as long as you don't roll a 1 on the weapon) however for 1500 is way to expensive i'd just keep the LR to ensure that my zerks will get there and do their job, collect the skulls of anything that would threat my plague marines.

That was how I thought about it. I want to try it, but I may leave it for a bigger point army. I just want to see what abby and 8 zerkers cruising around in a LR can do. I'm thinking it will get many trials in some friendly 2000/2500pt games.