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So i'm going to be building a 500point SM army and i'm taking a Chaplain as a HQ. I want him to stand out so i'm painting him in the classic black(bone trim) colour scheme and reversing that for the other troops.

To add to this i would like to try out non-metallic metal on the black armour. Does anyone know how to get this effect? The struggle i can imagine having is that it may well look more like boltgun/steel due to the use of grey/white highlights. Maybe a Badab Black wash over the top would work...

Couldn't find any good examples online but i would like to see some. Just to reiterate i am trying to achieve a similar look to the 'normal' gold non-metallic metal often seen on The Sanguinor model but i want the armour to be obviously black.

Thanks in advance for any and all help!!

Um, as far as I know there are no black metals, unless you're counting a music genre.



The point of using Non-metallic Metals is to use non-metallic paint (i.e. black, plus a bunch of other colors) to imitate the metallic shade. How can you turn a color that is non-metallic in the first place to a non-metallic metal?

Ah, Gorgoroth.....couldn't find a pic of the guys from Immortal?

i guess it would be similar to trying to paint obsidian.

really just black with very stark highlighting. Maybe try a SENMM using just black, very dark grey, and white?

I've found that vellejo black-grey takes on a metallic sheen when given a wash of badab. Not sure how you'd finish it off though. Also, check out the face plate of the 'eavy metal crews cronos parasite engine. No idea how they painted it but it's definitely what you're after. I suggest trying to find out how the cronos was painted.

You need to do highlights differently if you want a surface to look shiny and reflective,...



Number 1 shows typical highlighting and shading. This is the kind of smooth even shading you will naturally get from washing and dry-brushing. It's great for things like cloth, but not good for shiny metal.

Number 2 is more like what you want. You have very thin fine highlights, which actually represent points of light being reflected in the material. To paint this on a miniature I would probably do the highlights in a grey, because white highlights probably won't appear fine enough.

Number 3 is the same again but this time with some extra reflections. I did sky/earth reflections here as an example, but you could do anything. The important thing is to keep these reflections subtle and dark. If you make them too bright then the surface will start to look like chrome. I would suggest using a very dark blue or grey for these secondary reflections/highlights.

starsdawn wrote:Um, as far as I know there are no black metals

Titanium can be coloured black...

If that's black then gold and yellow ochre are interchangeable.

starsdawn wrote:If that's black then gold and yellow ochre are interchangeable.

They are not interchangeable because they have different spectacular and reflective properties. That does not mean that they are not the same colour. Matt yellow, Gloss yellow, Satin yellow, Fluorescent yellow, Metallic Yellow... Non of them are "interchangeable" but they are all still yellow in colour.

Two options I think, Vallejo makes a metallic black. I think it is in the Model Air line, but do not quote me. I know Vallejo sells a metallic medium that will turn most any paint into a metallic.

J.Black wrote:i guess it would be similar to trying to paint obsidian.

really just black with very stark highlighting. Maybe try a SENMM using just black, very dark grey, and white?

That's the idea, polished obsidian/onyx or black titanium.

Ktulhut wrote:I've found that vellejo black-grey takes on a metallic sheen when given a wash of badab. Not sure how you'd finish it off though. Also, check out the face plate of the 'eavy metal crews cronos parasite engine. No idea how they painted it but it's definitely what you're after. I suggest trying to find out how the cronos was painted.

Well i'd like to stick to GW paints for ease. Holy polished obsidian, Batman! That Cronus helm/visor is beautiful. I think that's where i'm going with this. Without the blue tint though so it doesn't look like glass and i can keep the black colour.

Smacks wrote:You need to do highlights differently if you want a surface to look shiny and reflective,...

Thats great info thank you! You do this for a living? Oh and is there any chance i can PM you while i do it incase i get a bit lost?

Smacks wrote:

starsdawn wrote:Um, as far as I know there are no black metals

Titanium can be coloured black...

And Space Marines aren't real...

Synchro wrote:Two options I think, Vallejo makes a metallic black. I think it is in the Model Air line, but do not quote me. I know Vallejo sells a metallic medium that will turn most any paint into a metallic.

Sorry Synchro i'd like to stay away from metallic paints and keep to GW paint range. Thanks for the info though, i'll remember that!

ive tried non-metalic metal and it didnt turn out that good . use extreamly bright highlights and dark shading is at least what GW says. paint him twice or more to get him looking good. you might want to take a pice of polished metal and study it first.

Thanks for the review man. I think my best bet is to find the 'Eavy Metal Masterclass for The Sanguinor and use different coloured paints. If that doesn't work i'll run crying to Smacks! Haha!!

I did a quasi metallic black by mixing just a touch of mithril silver into chaos black (too little does nothing, too much turns it into boltgun...experiment with your paint to get the effect/color you like). It lays on as a semi-gloss black but the silver reflects highlights from normal lighting.

It still gets nixed on painting scores since their is no "highlight color" actually painted on (being clever enough to figure out a way to mix paints that use ambient lighting to enhance actual highlights is still a 'no-go' among painting judges).
cest la vie

Thanks man, i might give that idea a whirl if highlighting isn't working by its self. Whatever the case i have a test model on its way so i'll put up pictures when i've had my first try. If anyone else has pictures of similar attempts feel free to post them.

Hey all, got the model partially built and now i'm getting worried about jumping in the deep end! But never mind that now, i have yet more questions!

First up: I have churned out a recipe for Black Non-Metallic Metal based on The 'Eavy Metal Masterclass for the Sangiunor, i'd like to know what you all think...
Step 1: Basecoat with 'Chaos Black'
Step 2: Highlight with 'Chaos Black' with a spot of 'Charadon Granite'
Step 3: Highlight with 2:1 'Chaos Black:Charadon Granite'
Step 4: Highlight with 1:1 'Chaos Black:Charadon Granite'
Step 5: Highlight with 1:2 'Chaos Black:Charadon Granite'
Not Step 6: Miss out Recess Wash and Flat Shading above Highlights. I think this part of the NMM process is to make the Gold appear warmer. Black is a cold colour so i'm not supposed to do it. I could be wrong here... :/
Step 6: Highlight with 'Charadon Granite'
Step 7: Highlight with 'Adeptus Battlegrey'
Step 8: Extreme Highlight with 'Skull White'
So, do you guys think those are the correct colours to run with?

I have a couple of other questions to ask now... I'm planning on using Copper/Bronze Non-Metallic Metal on the Chaplain's two Swords/Crozius Arcanums but i can't find a tutorial for that anywhere. Not using GW paints or with pictures anyway.
To go with the Copper/Bronze i would like to find a tutorial for Verdigris. Any ideas folks?

Lastly, Bone Armour. There are thousands of incarnations, which is best? I'm not a fan of the very white stuff 'Eavy Metal use on skull details and i think the GW website Dark Angels tutorial looks too tacky. How does this sound?
Step 1: Undercoat with 'Skull White'
Step 2: Basecoat with 'Bleached Bone'
Step 3: Multiple Washes with 'Gryphonne Sepia'
Step 4: Raised Coat of 'Bleached Bone'
Step 5: Highlight with 'Skull White'
I wonder if it would look better without Step 2 actually.

Input needed folks, especially yours Smacks!

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Input needed folks, especially yours Smacks!

If you really want my honest advice... I would not use Games Workshop paints to do the effect you are talking about (The black NMM armour). In fact I would not use acrylic at all. You would get better results much easier by using oil paints.

I know this might sound strange in a world where everyone seems to be using acrylic, but different kinds of paints have different advantages and disadvantages. For smooth blended highlights, oils have the advantage because they dry slowly. This gives you a lot of time to manipulate and blend the paint smoothly while it's actually on the model. It allows you to do things easily that you might not have thought possible with acrylic. Acrylic dries almost instantly, even when using fluid retarder. So it is actually one of the more difficult mediums for doing this kind of thing. It also has poor coverage when painting white over black, which again is making things more difficult for yourself.

Acrylic has other advantages though, so I'm not suggesting you switch to oils for the whole miniature. I would suggest that you use both where appropriate. Paint your model normally using acrylic then pick up two tins of Humbrol Enamel (black and white) for doing the black highlights.

Oils require a little more patients and planning when it comes to drying times than does acrylic. Using the two mediums together on the same model means you have to do steps in a certain order so that fast drying acrylic doesn't end up on top of slow drying oil. But I don't really want to get into too much detail unless it's actually something you're interested in doing.

I posted a little about NMM in different colours in THIS topic.

For the bone... I always mix my own colours and washes from swatches so I'm not sure exactly how my bone shade would compare to 'Gryphonne Sepia'. But yeah a white base, with a light brown (coffee coloured wash) is a good place to start. There is no need for step 2 really as the wash will most likely stain the white a little. What I would do then is try to mix a colour close to whatever shade of stained white you get, and then gently dry brush that over the top to even out the wash.

I would actually spray the model white and do this to the whole model first, then paint the black in after using very watered down paint so you can run it around all the bone details and get really nice sharp edges. The bone would also add nice under-shading to any other colours you used over the top.

Thats great info thank you! You do this for a living?

Erm sort of... I'm a commercial artist (mainly digital nowadays). I don't paint miniatures for a living.

Smacks wrote:Oils require a little more patients and planning when it comes to drying times than does acrylic. Using the two mediums together on the same model means you have to do steps in a certain order so that fast drying acrylic doesn't end up on top of slow drying oil. But I don't really want to get into too much detail unless it's actually something you're interested in doing.

I'll be straight up with you. That sounds terrifying and i'm already pushing myself to do NMM. Then again you say oils are easier and i'm a glutton for punishment anyway! Where do i start? I can't find any examples via google. :/

Smacks wrote:I posted a little about NMM in different colours in THIS topic.

That really woke me up to the logic of SENMM and NMM. So for copper/bronze i'd be using browns and oranges from black to white? Or am i not getting this?

Smacks wrote:For the bone... I always mix my own colours and washes from swatches so I'm not sure exactly how my bone shade would compare to 'Gryphonne Sepia'. But yeah a white base, with a light brown (coffee coloured wash) is a good place to start. There is no need for step 2 really as the wash will most likely stain the white a little. What I would do then is try to mix a colour close to whatever shade of stained white you get, and then gently dry brush that over the top to even out the wash.

Sounds great! Gryphonne Sepia is going to be the wash that brings nearly everything together for the army. Do you suggest a Skull White or Bleached Bone basecoat? I think Bleached Bone will be warmer but i could be wrong.

Thanks for the reply Smacks. You are quickly turning into my painting oracle! In fact you might want to drop by my 'Toolbox' thread, should interest you, links in my signature.

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:

Smacks wrote:Oils require a little more patients and planning when it comes to drying times than does acrylic. Using the two mediums together on the same model means you have to do steps in a certain order so that fast drying acrylic doesn't end up on top of slow drying oil. But I don't really want to get into too much detail unless it's actually something you're interested in doing.

I'll be straight up with you. That sounds terrifying and i'm already pushing myself to do NMM. Then again you say oils are easier and i'm a glutton for punishment anyway! Where do i start? I can't find any examples via google. :/

Haha, don't worry it's really nothing to be scared of. The main difference between acrylic and oil, is that oil isn't water soluble, so you have to use white spirit to thin it and to wash your brushes. So instead of sitting painting with a jar of water, you'll be sitting painting with a jar of white spirit... probably a much smaller jar though as white spirit is quite strong smelling and the fumes will make you high if your room is badly ventilated. Then you will be painting Lucy in the sky with diamonds marines. So yeah don't pour out any more than you need.

I also use different brushes for oils, because white spirit can be a bit unkind to natural brushes, so I like to use a synthetic brush instead. Mine is a Humbrol Coloro size:00, which I'm very happy with.

You can paint oils over the top of acrylics without any problems whatsoever (in fact most modern oil painters prime in acrylic) this is because acrylics dry fast. Unfortunately the reverse is not always true. You can't paint acrylic over the top of oil unless the the oil is dry. This can catch people out, because even though it seems dry to touch after a few hours, it can actually take months or even years for it to dry out fully. Though with fine details on miniatures you would probably safe after a couple of weeks. ideally you want to do the oils last in any case.

So for your chaplain... You would paint the whole miniature as normal, using chaos black for the armour. But leave the armour highlights until the very end. Then when he is all finished, you can go over each armour plate with black enamel paint, and add the highlights in white enamel while the black is still wet. This will allow you to blend the white seamlessly into the black, so you will get effects very similar to on the DE Chronos you posted. It's certainly easier than acrylic because you can actually do quite thick clumsy white lines to begin with, and then blend them out till they are razor sharp.

One of the problems you might run into is with varnish and finish. Oils are really tough so they don't necessarily need varnishing, but Acrylics do. However you can't varnish over Oils until they are dry... Which means you either have to wait a long time to varnish the miniature, or you have to find a way to varnish the layers separately. It's best to get enamel paints that match the finish of the varnish you like to use (matt/gloss/satin).

Where do i start? I can't find any examples via google.

This video is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__U0wNcEwHU

And I know this guy uses Oils for some stuff, though I'm not 100% how these GK specifically were painted.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nuclealosaur#p/u/8/zdfq74yOddY

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:So for copper/bronze i'd be using browns and oranges from black to white? Or am i not getting this?

Yeah pretty much I think. Copper is a bit more red/brown than gold. So that is the part of the spectrum that you would be working with. You're going to have from black to that copper shade of red. You won't really have white because white is made up off all coloured light combined. Copper seems to absorb most blue and green light so you end up with just the reds, oranges and browns being the brighter colours. However you will still get tiny spectacular dots of white light where a light or the sun it being reflected.

Imagine it like SENMM with a dark Earth, Copper red sky, and maybe Orange, white, or Flesh coloured sun. Then imagine the whole sky earth image blurred a little. That is about right.

This is a pretty good example...

Smacks wrote:Haha, don't worry it's really nothing to be scared of. The main difference between acrylic and oil, is that oil isn't water soluble, so you have to use white spirit to thin it and to wash your brushes. So instead of sitting painting with a jar of water, you'll be sitting painting with a jar of white spirit... probably a much smaller jar though as white spirit is quite strong smelling and the fumes will make you high if your room is badly ventilated. Then you will be painting Lucy in the sky with diamonds marines. So yeah don't pour out any more than you need.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but have you tried the Winsor & Newton line of Artisan oils that can be mixed with water and cleaned up with water and regular brush soap? No noxious fumes at all. I saw it in a painting demo done by the guy from Secret Weapon Miniatures the other weekend and went out and bought a few tubes. OMG is it awesome stuff. Now I just need to learn to paint with oils, specifically how to blend with them. The color was REALLY vibrant and super easy to work with. I think if more people knew about these, more miniature painters would use them.

Smacks wrote:So for your chaplain... You would paint the whole miniature as normal, using chaos black for the armour. But leave the armour highlights until the very end. Then when he is all finished, you can go over each armour plate with black enamel paint, and add the highlights in white enamel while the black is still wet. This will allow you to blend the white seamlessly into the black, so you will get effects very similar to on the DE Chronos you posted. It's certainly easier than acrylic because you can actually do quite thick clumsy white lines to begin with, and then blend them out till they are razor sharp.

So, preferably for myself and the model i'm working with, i would basecoat the model black then paint the oil NMM onto the armour and weapons(I'm definitely going to overlap onto all the tiny little details covering the armour). Then paint the areas that haven't got oil on them and THEN a couple of weeks later re-paint the bits with oil on them?

Smacks wrote:One of the problems you might run into is with varnish and finish. Oils are really tough so they don't necessarily need varnishing, but Acrylics do. However you can't varnish over Oils until they are dry... Which means you either have to wait a long time to varnish the miniature, or you have to find a way to varnish the layers separately. It's best to get enamel paints that match the finish of the varnish you like to use (matt/gloss/satin).

If i'm going to wait two weeks anyway should i still use a matt oil and then matt varnish it later?

Smacks wrote:This video is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__U0wNcEwHU
And I know this guy uses Oils for some stuff, though I'm not 100% how these GK specifically were painted.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nuclealosaur#p/u/8/zdfq74yOddY

Whoa! First up that's a great tutorial, consider it bookmarked. Second up those GK are beautiful, teach me to paint like that, haha!

Smacks wrote:Yeah pretty much I think. Copper is a bit more red/brown than gold. So that is the part of the spectrum that you would be working with. You're going to have from black to that copper shade of red. You won't really have white because white is made up off all coloured light combined. Copper seems to absorb most blue and green light so you end up with just the reds, oranges and browns being the brighter colours. However you will still get tiny spectacular dots of white light where a light or the sun it being reflected.
Imagine it like SENMM with a dark Earth, Copper red sky, and maybe Orange, white, or Flesh coloured sun. Then imagine the whole sky earth image blurred a little. That is about right.

Great stuff, think i've got that sorted in my head! What would you recommend in way of recipe for the black and the copper? Oh and also the verdigris! Should i be using acrylic or oil for the verdigris, if i'm waiting two weeks anyway?

Synchro wrote:Not trying to hijack the thread, but have you tried the Winsor & Newton line of Artisan oils that can be mixed with water and cleaned up with water and regular brush soap? No noxious fumes at all. I saw it in a painting demo done by the guy from Secret Weapon Miniatures the other weekend and went out and bought a few tubes. OMG is it awesome stuff. Now I just need to learn to paint with oils, specifically how to blend with them. The color was REALLY vibrant and super easy to work with. I think if more people knew about these, more miniature painters would use them.

That sounds like really interesting stuff! I don't know much about painting but Smacks might have some info on it. Oh and don't feel like you are hijacking, that's valuable information. In fact you should stick around if you want, we can compare our attempts with oil and NMM.


Thanks for the replies guys! This is really helpful information, i'll be pro-painting oils in no time. Haha, i wish!

I did this chaplain here with oil paints;





and this guy





For the chaplain I started with Vallejo Neutral Grey, then gave a badab black wash. The using a black oil paint I started in the cracks and darkest part working outward from dark to light. Then using titanium white and black built the highlights out to pure titanium white on the edges. The learning curve with oils can be steep, but once you get the hang of it, it can be rather fun!

Ashton

Whoa that's some really beautiful stuff. It'll be great reference material. Though i'm going for a high contrast look because of the NMM polished obsidian i'm trying to get the armour to appear as, do you have any suggestions on that?

Would you suggest some tester models before i tackle the big guy? I guess it would be the safer option.

Is this the right stuff Smacks? Is that matt coat going to be okay? I chose a liquid because i heard some horror stories about spray on.

34 MATT WHITE 14ml MATT Enamel Tinlet
33 MATT BLACK 14ml MATT Enamel Tinlet
Coloro Brush Size 00
28ML MODELCOTE MATTCOTE E/F/D 28ml Finishing Product

Almost finished the bits around the armour, just the black to do. Absolutely terrified....