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So I've been considering a second fantasy army after my Lizaedmen, and seeing as like to focus more on the paint than the play, and don't enjoy human models, I've narrowed it down to Beastmen or Skaven. Now it's the issue of what their pros and cons are.
What are the best and worst qualities of each army and what, overall would you consider the best, and what would YOU recommend??

Well, both are beasty. Lots of fur. If you like painting that, okay.

I think Skaven have more unique models to paint. Beastmen you'd have to convert some yourself.

Go with skaven they are very different from the dinos.

Skaven things can go wrong and it will be funny like some guy blows himself up and its good times they are more of a haha im competitive but this army can also be there for a fun game where random things will happen.

Beasts its more like beasties.

I have friends that play both skaven just have more options and over all are just funny usually always a laugh unless you decided to bring a ton of HPA.

I currently play skaven (albeit not very well it seems ) and am currently expanding into Beastmen. They are similar in a number of ways, but really distinct from each other in play style.

Skaven
Pro:
- Versatile; can be shooty or choppy depending on choices
- Resilient; cheap troops can remain steadfast for several rounds when properly supported
- Strong magic; Cracks Call is the only thing I know of that can destroy buildings. Also: Dreaded 13th. Nuff said.
- Cheap Heroes; Warlocks weigh in at a paltry 15 points base. Granted, they're barely better than a clan rat...
- Warp Lightning Cannons Contender for top war machine in the game.
- Weapon Teams blow up in hilarious ways

Con:
- Ld issues if NOT properly supported
- High model count = $$ (IoB lessens this somewhat)
- Weak (but resilient) core. You need lots, but you rarely win here
- Some units are high cost / low return (Jezzails, I'm looking at you; Ranged units in the Special slot should at least be BS4...)
- Multiple HPAs may earn you a punch in the face...
- Weapon Teams blow up in hilarious ways

Beastmen
Pro:
- Strong CC with Primal Fury
- Ungor blocks are decent anvil units to hold up attackers. Cheap, and come with HW/S
- Decent special choices. Minos cause impact hits, get stronger with each winning round.
- Good magic item support. Shaman swarm w/ Herdstone generates good power dice

Con:
- No armor on core units means lots of dead models; rarely if ever get to strike first.
- Ambush special rule spotty at best
- Hard to use Rare slots. Won't say worthless, but close.
- Little to no shooting / range support


Overall I'd say Skaven are the stronger army. Their book is more recent than Beastmen, which was generally considered an underwhelming army book. Beastmen core choices tend to be more expensive than skaven, while not being a whole lot tougher (although a decent bit more killy). Skaven are a well rounded army as well, they have decent CC in units like Rat Ogres or Plague Monks, good to godly shooting in Weapon Teams and Warp Lightning Cannons, tough monsters like the HPA (which would probably solo any Beastmen monster, none of which have a save or regen :( ) and while Beastmen can use a few of the better Main Book lores of magic, the lores of Plague and Ruin are amazing.

To be fair though, I haven't actually played a game with Beastmen yet.

Here's my subjective opinion on Beastmen.

Beastmen can get a 2+ armor save BSB who grants +1 STR in CC to a whole unit. In a horde of 50 Gor it can start to hurt.

In my experience it is best to field a couple of big blocks with support than multiple medium units: the lack of armor REALLY hurts (I run my Gors with AHW so no parry). Being able to reroll STR 4 attacks (thanks to the BSB's magical banner), on the other hand, has its uses! Example of small support units: ungor raiders, chaos hounds, chariots, spawn of chaos. Having lots of "drops" also helps during deployment.

Beastmen Shamen can use the lore of Shadow. It has great synergy with the army playstyle: debuff enemy initiative or WS in order to strike first or better than them. Deny High Elves those rerolls, etc.

Beastmen tuskgor chariots are core. As far as I know only Tomb Kings can do a core selection of chariots.

Beastmen Rare selection is overcosted. While you may want to play a huge monsters army (tm), it is better to play to the Primal Fury's strengths and field lots of infantry, in my opinion.

What do you mean con weapon teams blow up in halerious ways that a pro too funny when they explod or something random.

You forgot the hamster wheel that thing is just so funny and effetive.

Multiple HPA willg et you punched and will not make you friends unless its an ard boys thing but then be ready to eat flaming cannon balls and other stuff that is on fire.

Beasts are great fun to play against IMO the beasties and the stuff they do its jsut good times.

Yes hordes of infantry do really well shadow mafgic ood times also you can add some bi stuff in supported properly it will do well.

Skaven lords are cheap adn effective and ya engineers good times with a rocket haha oh man thats just funny.

IoB is the cheapest way to build a skaven army.

Beastmen will be a bit more expensive but hey its the models that you like.

Also when you play doubles beastmen and some sort of force of destruction other then DE and skaven remain allies not like skaven that can become mistrusted all of a sudden that really helps in doubles having 2 amries that work well together and well dont just fall appart after turn 2.

cowpow, please dont take this the wrong way, but can you use commas please?

I feel like i have to read your posts all in one go and i swear to God i get out of breath at the end ()

I dont mean that harshly, im just struggling to read what you post sometimes even though i know you know what you are talking about.


On Topic:
Skaven are arguably the most competitive army in WHFB right now. They are also one of those armies that allow great conversions if you are more interested in that side of the hobby (and i see from your post that you are ). However, due to huge numbers, the painting may become very monotonous, and also becomes quite expensive.

Both armies are great I think, but since I do have a special place in my soul for Beastmen I would say go with them. But thats if you want a fun list, and not a WAAC army like Skaven. When your decided the most important facor is what YOU enjoy playing and assembeling/painting.

Well, others have said it, but since I've played both armies, here's my two cents.

First off, Steamdragon is pretty well spot on with his pros and cons.

Second, Skaven are definitely easier to play.

Third, I still like my Beastmen better.

I have been taking a horde of Gors with a killy Beastlord (he put four wounds on a giant in one turn). At larger point games, I intend to take two hordes with two killy Beastlords to pump up their Ld. A big block of Bestigors is also a must. The fact that they have heavy armor is actually pretty useless, as they are the thing that you will be throwing at your opponent's monsters more often than hordes. I don't know much mathammer, but I think that I would rather have 8 str 6 attacks vs 12 str 3 attacks most days against monsters.

Lore of Shadows is great, but taking a couple of lvl 1 Lore of Beast shamans means those hordes are now str 4 t 5. Woot.

With some Harpies, Razorgors, and/or chariots to break steadfast/kill warmachines? Beast. Yeah, I said that on purpose...what you gonna do about it?

Edit: forgot about AHWs...make that 16 str 3 attacks, assuming a four-man front against the monster...Also, my killy Beastlord has the Frenzy sword, which helps...no need to try for those pesky double ones. So maybe throwing hordes against monsters won't be so bad after all...well...I did get hit with a giant and a plague furnace on the same turn...I got picked on in our doubles game yesterday...

I appologize :(

I am usually on my Ipod/Iphone and the commas are just a real pain, since they are over a page and sometimes it just takes them out.

But yes both armies have their ups and downs.

No worries dude, its just a struggle sometimes, and thats annoying because your posts often have a lot of helpful advice in them.

cowpow16 wrote:What do you mean con weapon teams blow up in halerious ways that a pro too funny when they explod or something random.

You forgot the hamster wheel that thing is just so funny and effetive.

Well, I did list it under both columns. While it's funny, from a rules standpoint it kinda hurts when your Warpfire Thrower team sets themselves on fire and runs straight into your blocks before blowing up. Hilarious, until you remove that handful of models.

And I'm still torn on the Doomwheel. It's concept is amazingly awesome but I've yet to have any real success with mine, barring the one incident of it smoking a DE BSB on a manticore. He didn't realize it had Multiple Wounds d6 and now knows to keep his characters away from it.

Anyway I just got a bunch of beastmen stuff recently, and I'm itching to try them out.