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There are two threads so far where two different people rated the Primarchs/Legions and I thought it would be better if there was just one thread where people could rank the Legions/Primarchs and talk about which is the best. So, assuming mods think this thread is okay, this is the official thread for ranking the Primarchs/Legions. I'll go first and I'll rank the Legions for now. I'll probably rank the Primarchs later.

1. Iron Warriors
-When I made this list I didn't realize the Iron Warriors would be at the top but it just kinda happened. They're one of the most accomplished Legions since the Heresy and are less bland than the Black
Legion.

2. Black Legion
-The epitome of Traitors and the most powerful single Legion/Chapter at this point, the Black Legion is pretty cool. In addition, the Crusades aren't failures just because they failed to destroy the Imperium. The 1st one recovered Drachnyen and demoralized the Imperium. The 12th one recovered two Blackstone Fortresses. The 13th one has conquered 70% of Cadia and isn't even over yet. Though their background is good the Black Legion is a tad bland at time.

3. Thousand Sons
-They have an excellent background and great armor. What's not to love?

4. Iron Hands
-The Iron Hands have no downside. No crappy author has ruined their fluff (they did get pwned on Iron Hands, but it wasn't their fault but rather the Traitor's brilliance behind it). They're obsessed about improving their weak, fleshy bodies with bionics and electronics and favor massive, straight forward assaults.

5. Alpha Legion
-I liked the Alpha Legion better before their story was changed from one about the sin of pride to just being confused and somewhat manipulated by lying or confused Eldar. Nevertheless, they pwned the Ultramarines and the Emperor's Swords in addition to remaining hidden from the Imperium and that's worth something.

6. Raven Guard
-Eh, these guys are pretty cool. Fast, deadly and mobile with a Raven theme and a cool Primarch, these guys are pretty cool.

7. Imperial Fists
-Without them Horus would've broken into the Emperor's big fortress easily and slaughtered the Emperor with a hundred billion Chaos Space Marines rather than going into a deadly one on one duel with him. Furthermore these guys are pretty good at fortifications and siege warfare (thought not as good as the Iron Warriors) and they accomplished a lot after the Horus Heresy but before the Black Crusades by destroying hundreds of Chaos strongholds outside of the Eye of Terror.

8. Emperor's Children
-Creepy yet awesome with their Sonic Guns, mutations and drugs, the Emperor's Children are one of the most unique Legions. Their fall into Chaos is interesting in that they fell the same way a cocaine user falls to a Drug Dealer. Nevertheless these guys are too creepy and weird to have a higher rank, plus they were pwned by the Black Legion (specifically Abaddon).

9. Dark Angels
-The Dark Angels have an interesting honorable but at the same time deadly theme and pretty cool cloaks. It bothers me how uptight they are about the Great Betrayal, but at the same time I recognize they have a image of honor and purity they have to keep up. During the Horus Heresy the Night Lords were tasked with holding them back from Terra and failed miserably.

10. Death Guard
-We're getting to the better Legions now. The Death Guard are the epitome of endurance, twisting their own weakness and despair into strength.

11. World eaters
-Everyone loves Khorne Berzerkers, but they are kind of bland compared to the other Legions.

12. Salamanders
-These guys and their irrational love for civilians and innocents aren't nearly grimdark enough, but other than that there's nothing wrong with 'em.

13. Word Bearers
-The Word Bearers started the Horus Heresy so you gotta give 'em cred for that, but they became too content to laze in the Eye of Terror and worship Daemons after the Heresy.

14. Space Wolves
-They are the Emperor's chief executioners, extremely talented on the battlefield but hypocritical and generally idiotic (with a few exceptions) on other subjects. I do respect them somewhat for their skill and hatred of the Codex Astartes, but that doesn't make up for the other stuff they did.

15. Night Lords
-The Night Lords would be lower if it weren't for their epic helmets and color scheme. They hate Chaos but "allied" with it as an excuse to endulge their excesses and dark nature. When Horus failed they fled to the Eastern Fringe where their Primarch went emo and let himself be killed in a failed attempt to prove he was right to a corpse. Without their Primarch they splintered and fled to the Eye of Terror, becoming so weak that they were forced to ally with the Chaos they hated.

16. Blood Angels
-They are like Khorne Berzerkers except they have a stupid reason for turning into angry crazy emos. Their Primarch was pretty cool though.

17. Ultramarines
-These guys seem to care more about glory and propaganda than actually helping the Imperium.

18. Whatshisface
-There's Legion I forgot and if it isn't memorable enough for me to remember despite being a huge Warhammer 40k geek it probably sucks. It might not though.

The point is that the ones people do are pretty long and personal to them.

The one you forgot is white scars they are the mongols. I have to argue with the Blood Angels statement, the Flaw is a legitimate reason caused by a genetic flaw. The death scream of Sanguinus causing this was an attempt to make the chapter grimdark without it they would have been UltraMarines painted red. I think it was successful in the way it strips their nobility, but also makes them more humane than other chapters.

I think all of them have some great qualities, but I have to rank Alpha Legion (Pre Heresy only cause I don't know what's up with them now) up top. Top primarch Sanguinus hands down

Okay, I understand that you want to share and discuss your opinions with everyone else. Since you mentioned the possibility of doing another ranking, this time for the Primarchs, here's some pointers for when you write it.

Generally, when someone does a list like this, they find it constructive to add new information. When JustDave did this, he did it with long, detailed explanations rather than a quick, one-post list.

Also, it's helpful, in general, to provide reasons that you like something or dislike it beyond 'it's cool' (a descriptor you use three times in one entry). I understand that you like them, but if you can't be bothered to take the time to give a more detailed explanation, it is hard for a reader to be bothered to make the effort to guess at your meaning. What makes a 'cool' thing cool? What do you mean by 'epic?' How exactly were these armies 'pwned?'

I recommend you check out JustDave's Primarch ranking thread before you do your version of the Primarch ranking. It might help.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311758.page

Jimsolo wrote:Okay, I understand that you want to share and discuss your opinions with everyone else. Since you mentioned the possibility of doing another ranking, this time for the Primarchs, here's some pointers for when you write it.

Generally, when someone does a list like this, they find it constructive to add new information. When JustDave did this, he did it with long, detailed explanations rather than a quick, one-post list.

Also, it's helpful, in general, to provide reasons that you like something or dislike it beyond 'it's cool' (a descriptor you use three times in one entry). I understand that you like them, but if you can't be bothered to take the time to give a more detailed explanation, it is hard for a reader to be bothered to make the effort to guess at your meaning. What makes a 'cool' thing cool? What do you mean by 'epic?' How exactly were these armies 'pwned?'

I recommend you check out JustDave's Primarch ranking thread before you do your version of the Primarch ranking. It might help.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311758.page

Yeah, I noticed the cool thing. It was for the very last one I wrote and I was tired of explaining things so I just used cool a lot. Here, I'll have some more detailed explanations for the vague or repetitive ones.


Iron Warriors: One of the main reasons I like them is how fleshed out Storm of Iron made them, revealing their complex inner works in addition to their strategies and goals. They're also unique in their relation to Chaos. They respect it and some serve it, but they're surprisingly casual and undevoted.

Thousand Sons: Their background is pretty tragic. They were just trying to help but due to Magnus' carelessness with his psychic powers he just pissed off the Emperor and gave the bloodthirsty Space Wolves an excuse to attack. To survive they were forced to turn to the Chaos they were originally trying to warn against. Damn, that's some dramatic irony.

Alpha Legion: By pwned I meant that they defeated the chapters thoroughly using superior tactics rather than sheer numbers or luck, which happens a lot in Warhammer 40k. The Emperor's Swords were destroyed from the inside via a decades long operation and everyone knows what happened to the Ultramarines.

Raven Guard: I like their tactics of using quite, pivotal assaults against an enemy's weak point. In addition Corax was an excellent tactician and a skilled fight. He managed to survive Istvaan.

Emperor's Children: By pwned I meant Abaddon utterly defeated their Legion in a massive battle in the Eye of Terror, splintering it into thousands of warbands, a large portion of which serve him.

Word Bearers: They haven't accomplished much since the Heresy. In fact, most of their fluff since then is about their devotion to Chaos and Lorgar's endless meditation.


As for the Blood Angels I dislike their angriness because other Primarchs have died without their soldiers turning emo. I understand that Sanguinius was more psychically powerful than a lot of the other dead Primarchs and he was closer to his Legion, but I don't think the psychic shockwave from his death would be so powerful as to embed his sadness/angriness/craziness into every geneseed, even the thousands already in use and even the ones hundreds of thousands of miles away. I understand Warhammer 40k it overthetop, but it seems just too bizarre and ridiculous even for the setting. I do understand that the Blood Angels do need something to distinguish them from Ultramarines, but it could be something better.

Good stuff. I hadn't heard anything about the Alpha Legion fighting the Emperor's Swords. I think I will look into that more. So, was it your intent for other people to rank the Legions and Primarchs in this thread?

Jimsolo wrote:Good stuff. I hadn't heard anything about the Alpha Legion fighting the Emperor's Swords. I think I will look into that more. So, was it your intent for other people to rank the Legions and Primarchs in this thread?

If they want to rank the Primarchs/Legions as well than yeah.

As for the Emperor's Swords, it's from the most recent CSM Codex. Its one of the few bits of knowledge about the Traitor Legions in that book (it mostly focuses on Renegade Chapters). Its a pretty interesting piece of fluff.

Da Alpha legion needs to be first.

Orkyclaus wrote:Da Alpha legion needs to be first.

They are first, and second, and third, and fourth and fifth...

"As for the Blood Angels I dislike their angriness because other Primarchs have died without their soldiers turning emo. I understand that Sanguinius was more psychically powerful than a lot of the other dead Primarchs and he was closer to his Legion, but I don't think the psychic shockwave from his death would be so powerful as to embed his sadness/angriness/craziness into every geneseed, even the thousands already in use and even the ones hundreds of thousands of miles away. I understand Warhammer 40k it overthetop, but it seems just too bizarre and ridiculous even for the setting. I do understand that the Blood Angels do need something to distinguish them from Ultramarines, but it could be something better."

Ultras>all(except maybe thousand sons, because those dudes are awesome)

1. Ultramarines
Martial Virtues. Pride. Honour. Courage. The galaxies last beacon of hope. They ARE the Space Marines (note that they are not pushing the Codex Astartes on others despite of what the Internet says... the Adeptus Terra is). I'd fight for Macragge any day.

2. Blood Angels
The flawed, tragic Chapter, embodiment of both their greatest potential and their possible downfall. A Legion with story, theme and mood dripping like no other.

3. Thousand Sons
Again, a Legion with a story made for Legends. Betrayal, Hubris, Damnation. Love those guys. My favorite "traitors" as a Legion.

4. Dark Angels
Moody, uncompromising, guarding a dark secret. Perfect mix IMO. Letting the occassional Black Templar Crusade dissappear as the ruthlessly pursue their own agenda, and only theirs. Awsome. They perfectly embody the ambiguity-side of Space Marines as autonomous military fraternities beyond formal accountability.

5. Black Legion
Sometimes, you just need a really, really good villain. They ain't subtle, but they are evil with a "believable" purpose. Of all the traitor legions, I think the Black Legion works best as something more than a Horus-Heresy annecdote and instead a true 40K force.

6. Alpha Legion
Lame internet-jokes kinda bring them down unfortunately. But the "hidden" threat working from within is a strong theme IMO.

7. Raven Guard
Their story ain't too compelling, but ya got to give them points for style. Also, I am just a sucker for Assault Marines.

8. Night Lords
The Legion is so-so, but one cannot deny their Primarch has more than enough style for the entire Legion. The Kurze-factor alone makes them a force worth collecting.

9. Emperors Children
Slowly, slowly, they've made their way from rockstar-Marines to a twisted villain and they are growing on me. Lucius is a pretty fun story too. Keep it up.

10. White Scars
I guess Bikes can be cool. I wish they wouldn't have ambulance colours though.

11. Word Bearers
Evil Space Marine Preachers could be cooler than they currently are. But I can see the appeal.

12. Iron Hands
Alright, I was a Cyberpunk fan too in the 80s. Bonus points for nostalgia.

13. Death Guard
There is potential there, but they needs to loose the simplistic stinky-zombie-schtick.

14. Unkown Legion I
Sometimes, no fluff at all is preferable to gakky fluff.

15. Unkown Legion II
see above.

16. World Eaters
ANNNGRYYY! HURR! HURR!

17. Salamanders
The great, intergalactic Schnitzel-Jagd. Yeah!

18. Iron Warriors
Barricade stripes ain't cool. Seriously. It is not.

19. Space Wolves
Mowgli the Wolf-rider and his Grand-theft-Thunderhawk Frat-pack. A legion stuffed with bad clichees, overzealous puberty appeal and no redeeming factor really.

20. Imperial Fist
Sponge-bob-coloured Marines that get a 'ard-on by whipping themselves. No thanks. They should just ret-con all "Fists" into Black Templars and be done with it.

I like this list more

LoneLictor wrote:
If they want to rank the Primarchs/Legions as well than yeah.

As for the Emperor's Swords, it's from the most recent CSM Codex. Its one of the few bits of knowledge about the Traitor Legions in that book (it mostly focuses on Renegade Chapters). Its a pretty interesting piece of fluff.

Where exactly does the current CSM Codex focus on Renegades? It has a two-page entry on the Wolf of Fenris. One Renegade SC in Huron. And two boxes or so on paint-schemes. That's it.

For Legions, it has over 15 pages of fluff on the Heresy, the Gods, the Long War, the Black Legion, etc.. . Five Legion-specific SCs compared to the Renegades one.

Seems pretty heavily Legion-biased to me.

Zweis, I noticed from your list that you have a penchant for the angsty, 'tragic', oh-look-at-me-and-my-dark-brooding-mystique Chapters. They seemed to get quite few positive comments from you.

I'm kidding. I like that you rated Ultramarines as number one. I have to agree with your decision to place some of the Legions beneath even the unknown Primarchs, but only one of the ones you chose for such an 'honor.'

But seriously...you think the Black Legion is 'believable?' Really? An entire army made up of people who are known far and wide for betrayal and treason against a leader who didn't do all that bad, and yet they can't manage to rebel against the leader they have had ever since? A guy who hasn't managed to win a major campaign in ten thousand years? Seriously, how has the rest of the Black Legion not lynched Abaddon with his own sissy ponytail by now?

Other than that, good list. Nice to see someone else's opinion.

And yes, I am working on my own list so everyone can take my opinions apart, I just want to put some time and thought into it.

Here's a thought, maybe because Abbaddon is a badass. There's a reason his campaigns have failed, and outside of the HH, we know very little of his current motivations, thoughts and actions around his men.

In my opinion (and my opinion only) I think most of the crusades are successes. Most of them have accomplished something and just because it didn't immediately take down the Imperium doesn't mean it was a failure. Was D-Day a failure because the Nazis weren't immediately destroyed? For example...

1st Black Crusade: Recovers the most powerful Daemon Blade in existence, Drachnyen. Shows Imperium that Chaos is still alive and heavily demoralizes it.

2nd Black Crusade: Yeah this one was a failure.

7th Black Crusade: Snuck past Cadia (no, really) and massacred the Blood Angels.

12th Black Crusade: Recovered two Black Stone Fortresses and killed Eldrad. Damn.

13th Black Crusade: Conquered 70% of Cadia and isn't over yet.

LoneLictor wrote:5. Alpha Legion
-I liked the Alpha Legion better before their story was changed from one about the sin of pride to just being confused and somewhat manipulated by lying or confused Eldar. Nevertheless, they pwned the Ultramarines and the Emperor's Swords in addition to remaining hidden from the Imperium and that's worth something.

I think you need to read the ending of Legion again. They weren't 'lied to' by 'confused Eldar'. They were shown two possible futures by a cabal of aliens who have been trying to defeat the 'Primordial Annihilator' (Chaos). They chose to go with the future that resulted in that outcome, since that's what the point of the Great Crusade was about even if most didn't know it. They did what they did to be loyal to the Emperor, not the Imperium.

LoneLictor wrote:Alpha Legion: By pwned I meant that they defeated the chapters thoroughly using superior tactics rather than sheer numbers or luck, which happens a lot in Warhammer 40k. The Emperor's Swords were destroyed from the inside via a decades long operation and everyone knows what happened to the Ultramarines.

They don't win through superior tactics. They win through cunning and subterfuge. There's a very big difference. The example you gave, again, was not 'superior' tactics. They did it by being sneaky bastards.

Jimsolo wrote:
But seriously...you think the Black Legion is 'believable?' Really? An entire army made up of people who are known far and wide for betrayal and treason against a leader who didn't do all that bad, and yet they can't manage to rebel against the leader they have had ever since? A guy who hasn't managed to win a major campaign in ten thousand years? Seriously, how has the rest of the Black Legion not lynched Abaddon with his own sissy ponytail by now?

Believable doesn't have to mean water-tight.

1. Abaddon, even though never successfully "destroying" the Imperium of Man has, by the fluff, won more battles than the entire Tyranid race taken together so far. Yet, the latter isn't nearly ridiculed as much by "the Internet", despite being a supposedly "big, scary, thread of galactic scale" that gets, with annoying frequency, beaten by Freebootaz, Maugan Ra on solo mission or a bunch of Vostroyans starving them to death. If you accept that the "villain" will never achieve true victory, Abaddon has done better than most. And the haircut is something I grew up with in 40K. I guess I just cannot make reasoned judgements on that.

2. Why isn't it falling apart to betrayal or backstabbing? I dunno. But at least the stated fact that there is such a thing as Black Crusades, even if deus ex machina, gives you a fluff reason to have a "Black Legion Campaign" or army that is more than just an adventuring party of random Space Marines. I find no such excuse for Iron Warriors, or Word Bearers or Night Lords. They just fight the Imperium.. well.. because. Not very compelling. Worse, World Eaters, Thousand Sons and their like are quite explicitly stated as being "broken", "disbanded" and "gone". So by comparison, Black Legion wins.

Zweischneid wrote:
Believable doesn't have to mean water-tight.

1. Abaddon, even though never successfully "destroying" the Imperium of Man has, by the fluff, won more battles than the entire Tyranid race taken together so far. Yet, the latter isn't nearly ridiculed as much by "the Internet", despite being a supposedly "big, scary, thread of galactic scale" that gets, with annoying frequency, beaten by Freebootaz, Maugan Ra on solo mission or a bunch of Vostroyans starving them to death. If you accept that the "villain" will never achieve true victory, Abaddon has done better than most. And the haircut is something I grew up with in 40K. I guess I just cannot make reasoned judgements on that.

2. Why isn't it falling apart to betrayal or backstabbing? I dunno. But at least the stated fact that there is such a thing as Black Crusades, even if deus ex machina, gives you a fluff reason to have a "Black Legion Campaign" or army that is more than just an adventuring party of random Space Marines. I find no such excuse for Iron Warriors, or Word Bearers or Night Lords. They just fight the Imperium.. well.. because. Not very compelling. Worse, World Eaters, Thousand Sons and their like are quite explicitly stated as being "broken", "disbanded" and "gone". So by comparison, Black Legion wins.

I think the Night Lords have a far more believable story than the Black Legion. While I will certainly grant that Abaddon may have won more victories than the Tyranids (I haven't seen any numbers on that, but sure, let's go with it, it sounds plausible, especially if you include his time pre-Heresy) I would also probably guess that he has suffered more losses. And while his 13th Black Crusade may not be over yet, I see no reason this one is going to end in success. All of the others ended up with Abaddon and his cronies running back to the Eye of Terror to hide.

And, LoneLictor, the difference between a Black Crusade and D-Day is that at D-Day, is that the Allies won at D-Day. They didn't get out, much a bunch of stuff up, and then climb back into the boats to go home. The Black Crusades are more like a meth addict breaking into the Imperium's house to steal starter fluid and diet pills. They didn't steal stuff that was that valuable to mankind in the first place, they didn't do any lasting damage to us, and we're insured.

LoneLictor wrote:
The 1st one recovered Drachnyen and demoralized the Imperium. The 12th one recovered two Blackstone Fortresses.

Hate to be a party pooper, but Drachn'yen was recovered by Abaddon the Despoiler (Warmaster of the Black Legion) inside the Eye of Terror and the two Blackstone Fortresses (talismans of Vaul to the Eldar) were taken during the Gothic War.

Fair is fair. It's only right that I give everyone else an opportunity to malign my opinions as I did theirs. Just to let everyone know, I did my list based on style, believability, literary depth, and a sprinkling of my own general opinion. As a forenote, if you don't agree with my list, no problem. (Make your own! It's always good to have more opinions to talk about!) This isn't presented as a 'this-is-right-and-you-are-wrong' list. It's just my opinion.

20. Black Legion (Horus)
Okay, anyone who has read anything I have ever written about Chaos shouldn't be shocked. Honestly, the Black Legion is, to me, the worst Legion. Their motivation is nonexistent. They are evil for evil's sake, which is completely unbelievable. They are completely ineffective. Yeah, their "Crusades" might matter to them, but to the Imperium, they are a pinprick. If it ever gets beyond that point, the Black Legion just gets smashed. Abaddon is trying to fight a guerilla war as though he were still equal in power to his opponent. And despite the fact that he leads a group of guys who claim to be all about evil and backstabbing, no one has bothered to take out Abby and his sissy ponytail.

19. Emperor's Children (Fulgrim)
Alright, apparently Fulgrim never bothered to read that Internet list about being an evil overlord. "I will always include a four year old girl in my council of advisors. Any flaws in my plans which she can spot will be corrected before implementation." Seriously? A talking sword you found on an alien world? And you pick it up? Every gamer worth his salt knows that if you find a talking sword in a sinister temple belonging to a fallen race of dark beings, you leave it the hell alone! The Emperor's Children were trouble from the get-go. My real problem isn't with their motivation for betrayal (pride, vanity won't let them admit flaws, yaddayadda, I get it) but with the inability of every person who ever came in contact with them to see the betrayal coming a mile away. And I'm sorry, rock and roll as a weapon wasn't cool in that KISS video game, it wasn't cool in Brutal Legend, and it isn't cool in 40k.

18. Dark Angels (Lion El'Jonson)
The lowest loyalist on my list, the Dark Angels used to be a Chapter I liked. I think the models for them look great, I really do, and at first I thought their background was really deep. Then I actually read some stuff about them. Oh Good Lord. The Dark Angels background is the most heavy-handed, over the top tripe I've read since Anne Rice. We get it, you've got a secret. A big, dark secret. A horrible, terrible secret. And it was something bad you did. And now you have to atone for it every day of your lives foreverandeverandever! Sorry greenie, nobody cares. And I do mean nobody. Some of you went evil in the Heresy? So what. Members of pretty much every Legion have fallen to Chaos at one point or another, and you don't see those Legions crying like a schoolgirl with a skinned knee do you? And oh, the characters. Every one of them in the stories is a cookie cutter, humorless, square jawed, stoic monk-knight of the far future. It's like Anne Rice and George Lucas watched The Kingdom one too many times, got stoned, and then wrote a Space Marine story.

17 + 16. The II and XI Legions.
I have to hand it to you Zweischneid. You're right, and you're the first person I ever saw put the two unnamed Legions in their list. Sometimes no background is better than the background you have. The bottom three Legions on my list would have been better off back on the drawing board. All of the rest I can at least muster up a grudging respect for, and would be willing to read further stories about. The above Legions, however, had their chance and blew it. The time it would take me to read those stories is a commodity I could never get back, and the stories themselves are a little like lottery tickets. The odds of getting a winner are about the same, and the rest of the time they aren't even worth a dollar.

But on a side note, I do actually enjoy speculating about the lost Legions every now and then. It is even more tantalizing that they occasionally drop a snippet of info about them. I love reading even the single lines pertaining to the Lost Two, and hope on one hand to see the mystery solved, and on the other hand to never see it solved. (And before anyone says anything, I know Games Workshop will never release or approve anything on the two lost Legions.))


Since there is only eighteen real entries to drop, I will bombard you with them in threes, since they take me a little bit to write. Expect the next three later.

Never put the blue ultras first. They probably are the most successful. I just cant stand them.

Spartan 117 wrote:Never put the blue ultras first. They probably are the most successful. I just cant stand them.

Pretty sure we're not trying to be biased though, and lets be honest. Despite being useless during the heresy they have definitely done the most to rebuild

1. Imperial Fists
2. Everyone else

I have the facts to prove it:

It is true that Guilliman wrote the codex astartes, exactly as dictated by Dorn

Imperial Fist Librarians dont take Perils of the Warp tests, the Warp takes Perils of the Imperial Fists tests.

When an Imperial Fist crosses the road, no dares ask him why he did it.

The pen is mightier than the power sword, when properly wielded by an Imperial Fist

Imperial fists tactical squads don't take special weapons, as every weapon is special in the hands of the imperial fists

The universe is always expanding, but it knows full well that it can't escape the wrath of the Imperial Fists

The Codex Astartes defines Impregnable as: "Can only be taken by Imperial Fists"

The Imperial Fists have designed several fortress worlds, and let them fall to Chaos, just in case they get bored

They Catachan devil was known as the Segmentum Solar devil, before the Imperial Fists started hunting it

The mechanicum's 3rd law of motion is wrong, there is no reaction equal and oppisite to an assault by the Imperial Fists!

The mechanicm's 1st law of thermodynamics is wrong as well, an Imperial Fist can destroy anything, even energy

Rogal Dorn invented black, in fact, he invented the whole spectrum of colors...except pink which is clearly the work of the Ultra Marines

An imperial fist can play russian roulette with a fully loaded storm bolter, and win!

Had the Lord of the Rings featured an Imperial Fist instead of a hobit as its main character, it would only be 5 pages long

Rogal Dorn once engaged in a staring contest with the eye of terror, and won!

If at first you don't succeed, you are not an Imperial Fist!

The Codex Astartes was originally titled: "How to be more like the Imperial Fists"

The Imperial Fists did not lose Bechters Gland (spit poison) they donated it to needier chapters

The Imperial Fists got rid of the Sus-An Membrane (1/2 sleep) because they realized that
if they didn't take an occasional break there would be nothing left to kill in the Galaxy

To this day no one knows if Imperial Fist Vehicles have a reverse gear, as they have never retreated

An imperial Fist never has to oil his bolter or armour as they are always slick with blood.

If an Imperial Fist wants your opinion, he'll beat it into you.

After taking a steroids test, the Apothacaries informed Rogal Dorn that he had tested positive. He laughed upon receiving this information,
and said unto them "of course my blood tested positive, what do you think they make steroids from?"

Not so much "best" more of a like/dislike, since most people tend to head that way regardless of the criteria in a thread

1) Ultras <Roman Republic in Space, what's not to like>
2) Space Wolves <if you ignore the stupid thunder puppies, these guys are a blast in fluff and table top>
3) Imperial Fists, Black Templars, and Crimson Fists <lone defenders willing to put it all on the line with crusading brothers... very tough to dislike>

These above three are very very close to me

4) Raven Guard... if only the table top fleshed them out a bit more and their primarch wasn't so emo
5) Dark Angles... love the extra Gothic touch. 1st chapter that I really studied up on their fluff, but not so compelling on the table top
6) Thousand Sons... so tragic, so different, so fun to play!
7) White Scars... Mongols in space! Kinda cool
8) Luna Wolves et. al. ...great fluff until the end of HH, then forgettable

The above are strongly in the "like" category

9) Blood Angels... fun to use their rules, just have a hard time caring about any of their characters other than Dante (who is my type of guy)
10) Salamanders... have fun table top perks... but not that interesting to me (need to read their BL stuff, if its any good)
11) Iron warriors... excellent plot devices for the Fists and Ultra... that's it
12) Word Bearers... back stabbing, weak, losers... but glad they exist so the Ultras have a "keepers of the Book of Wuss" to counter balance their "keepers of the Codex"

13-15) Nightlords, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors... all forgettable/un-space marine to me... just, meh

16) Emperor's Children... loser freaks... actually dislike them

17) World Eaters... everything that is wrong with Chaos

18) Death Guard... see above, just smell worse

To the OP, Ultras not helping out the IoM?! What sources are you reading?!! Where/how haven't they helped out? Most people whine that they're TOO helpful.

Nice to see everyone chipping in their own opinion. LoneLictor, this was a great idea! It lets everyone get their opinions off their chest without clogging up the board with a billion identical threads.

15. Death Guard (Mortarion)
The Death Guard. The original idea behind the Legion was understandable. A whole Legion of soldiers who eschew all this heraldry and honor and specialization crap in favor of just being soldiers. Tragically, they fell far short of the mark. When you do that, you still have to give your characters enough depth to make them matter. And the Legion as a whole couldn't manage that. Since the Heresy, they did throw their lot in with Nurgle, which is points in their favor at least. Honestly, I find them to be very tasteless. There just isn't enough there.

14. Blood Angels (Sanguinius)
Well, I suppose Games Workshop had to try and draw Vampire LARPers into 40k somehow. I kid, but seriously, these guys have way too much of the angsty Anne Rice vibe for my tastes. Yes, we get that your deformed untrustworthy psyker mutant ancestor was really pretty and everyone liked him, but he's dead now. Get over it. I don't really need to draw the parallels between the Blood Angels and vampires. The Gothic trappings, the blood, the angst, it's all been done before, with far more venom and internet sarcasm than I care to put into this post.
On the other hand, the Blood Angels do have some things going for them. They are a very pretty army when put together well, and they do have the knightly sort of 'my life before my honor' thing that makes me love Space Marines. While they might remind me of a fairly sissy sort of knight, it's a knight nevertheless.

13. World Eaters (Angron)
My list seems to have Angron's Legion pretty high up there. While I have no proof that such is the case, I actually think that Angron was one of the smartest of the Primarchs. Here's why. The Primarchs were supposed to be above humanity in every way, including mentally. And in a universe where every planet has some kind of tactical genius, the Primarchs usually get at least a decent challenge. Angron, on the other hand, refuses to play the tactics game. Much like Bog in that old Piers Anthony novel, his aggression conceals a cunning defense. When faced with such naked hostility, the only response is similar brute violence. Angron's headstrong tactics force his opponents to play his game, denying them the opportunity to make their little chess moves. Angron's commitment to this style of combat eventually led to his rage becoming a force he could no longer overcome, thus leading to his downfall.

Legion #2 for the win.

Okay, here I go. But be warned, this list is very biased and probably won't give very many good reasons.
18: Space Wolves
Oh, I just ing hate them with a passion that most people save for Ultramarines. They irritate me with the whole "Vikings/Werewolves in space theme" And add that to the incident of Prospero, you have all the makings of a bad Legion. them.
17: Blood Angels
I hate them. To be more specific, I hate the "flaw". So what if your Primarch got killed. Plenty of other Loyalist Legions had their Primarchs killed, but they didn't turn into perfectionist emos, constantly whining about how their Primarch died.
16: Black Legion
Despite bringing the entire galaxy to its knees, damn near killing the Emperor, and turning half of the Space Marine Legions to the Ruinous Powers, Horus still couldn't destroy the Imperium. To add on to that failing, Abbadon has had thirteen chances to finish what his father started, and he has failed all but one of them, and that can still be considered a half fail.
15: Iron Hands
I don't actually hate Iron Hands, there just isn't enough fluff on them for me to make an opinion.
More to come later.
*Edited to give more reasons.

Continuing in the saga of my awesome opinion...

12. Word Bearers (Lorgar)
From a literary standpoint, these guys are at least interesting. The whole 'chastised for the service they give, so they turn it in the complete opposite direction in rebellion and vengeance' story is older than dirt, but it's still around because we like it. I like that they still stick together as a Legion even after the Heresy. I think that their conversion to Chaos is a bit of a stretch, however, and you just don't see them around often enough for my liking. With a little more attention from the Black Library authors, this could be a much more well-liked Legion.

11. Thousand Sons (Magnus)
Once again, a story so old it's timeless. I heavily debated which of these two Legions to put at 12 and 11 respectively. While there isn't a lot I have read on the Word Bearers, there is less on the Thousand Sons. The backstory behind them is pretty sweet though. I love the rebellious son angle, the Primarch equivalent of a teenager trying to fix the sink even though his dad already said he was going to call a plumber. The very Grendel-esque theme of becoming a villain because no one will let you be a good guy is also one of my favorites, so I love to see it in 40k. At the end of the day, though, the whole 'my army is a bunch of mindless automatons' thing has already been covered by the Necrons.

10. Ultramarines (Roboute Gulliman)
When I started this list, I made it in a fashion that would keep me from sticking any one Legion in any specific numerical spot out of prejudice. Totally by coincidence, the Ultramarines wound up almost dead center. While I don't have a lot of bad things to say about them (and if I lived in the 40k universe, I would definitely want to live on Ultramar) I don't have a lot of good things to say about them either. The market is flooded with Ultramarines, as it were. They are a little boring strictly by the nature of their commonality. If this had been a 'Which Legion is the Best?' or 'Which Legion is the Most Successful?' then the Ultramarines would have taken number one with no questions. As it is, they establish the baseline from which all others must be judged, and there is no shame in that.


And as a side note, Coolyo, brother, give us some reasons! We all want to know why you think these things, it makes for more fruitful discussion. Otherwise this turns into a 'What's your favorite [X]' thread where everyone posts their answer but never reads anyone else's.