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Hey everyone,

I'm just looking for any last input on my Dark Eldar list. I'm hoping to get my first game in with all my real Venoms (been using Vypers) next weekend.

Dark Eldar - 2000
Asdrubael Vect
Haemonculus - Shattershard
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
8 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 2000

Additionally, I own 2 more Wych squads, 2 more Raiders, and 12 Reaver Jetbikes.

Thoughts?

I think vect is a handicap to that army. If your opponent reserves all or you don't go first, you will have a very tough time winning. Dropping him for an additional 2 offensive units would strengthen the list considerably. He is also an easy target for anyone who takes out the wyche raider and drops a pie plate on them.

Have you considered Beastmasters as a mop up unit? You've got tons of fire power but nothing to capitialise for when you blow troops out the transports. Beastmasters would do wonders for this.

As for not going first as long as you have terrain and everything has cover saves you should take a blow ok. Sometimes it maybe better to go second so you can do a refused flank (deploy your forces all on one flank) and attack a single part of the opponents forces, or going second allows the opponent to possibly come closer and into range of yuor guns. Lets face it if you go first you can only turbo boost for cover saves anyway as nothing will be in range except the dark lances.

It's absolutely a solid list...it's almost identical to the netlist that Dash started up...obviously it's doing well.

I agree with not needing Vect. He's not needed in this sort of list. If you want a heavy hitting archon for CC use a generic.

A huge weakness I've seen on these sort of lists however is how weak they are against any army with significant volume of 4 foot range firepower. Your army is designed to dance at the 3-4 foot range and eliminate things w/o getting melta'd or shot at. Armies that feature lots of LONG range firepower mechanised...anyone with mass autocannons/lascannons/ or lots of mech mounted ranged firepower will give you headaches.

Spamming rifleman dreads (especially grey knight ones) on the table edge is the best way to say "You cannot win this game." to this sort of army.

Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

Solid list. I like Vect as a CC beast, but at 240 points, he's pricey, even at 2K. Also, his ability to seize really needs to be a focus of any list he's in, otherwise, you're paying a lot for a souped up Archon. Your list is not really built to seize, at least not as well as an infantry-heavy dark lance list that can risk being exposed during deployment to gamble on the seize. Do you really want to have your Ravagers and Venoms sitting out there against IG or SW missile spam hoping for a 4+ if the opponent isn't scared by Vect?

If you cut him, you would have 240 points. Spend 100 on 2 haemonculi and 70 each on upgrading two warrior squads to wyches in raiders. Should be about there on points. That should give you three assault units with haywires, plus a large mobile fire base. 6 venoms is still plenty.

Deadshane1 is right about the weaknesses of the list versus, in particular, mechanized shooty marines (lists with loads of riflemen, typhoon speeders, etc.). Having more vehicular assault units (wyches) can help offset this as they can tie up riflemen quite well and are death to chimera/razorback parking lots.

I would trade vect in Vect for jet bikes, put the haemonculus in the raider, maybe even buy a second raider/wyches combo. And those jet bikes outfitted with blasters would help with the long range problem.

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

One wych, beast unit and the baron....other than that it's pretty identical. Blasters blasters blasters venoms venoms venoms and some other stuff.

I didnt say that either...but he's definatly helped put them on the map. Up until just recently people have been complaining about how DE fall short against IG and generally in tournament. Claiming to "invent" venom spam is like claiming to "invent" using melta to bust tanks....it's an obvious route to take within the codex. While he didnt invent it, he's definatly a spokesman for this sort of army.

Let me begin by saying thanks for the great replies everyone!

Ashenshugar wrote:I think vect is a handicap to that army. If your opponent reserves all or you don't go first, you will have a very tough time winning. Dropping him for an additional 2 offensive units would strengthen the list considerably. He is also an easy target for anyone who takes out the wyche raider and drops a pie plate on them.

I always want to have first turn. If my opponent full reserves, all the better! I can flat out my entire army on the top of turn 2. My opponent will have half their army arriving at the bottom of 2 and all my Blasters are certain to be in range at the top of turn 3. The fear of getting seized on can cause opponents to give me first, which plays directly into my hand. Of course, this is even better if my opponent isn't mobile and shooty (i.e. Long Fangs, Lootas, regular Marines, etc.). I always deploy aggresively when I already have first turn, as I tend to assume they won't roll a 6. It costs me a game here and there, but I find it worth it.

mercer wrote:Have you considered Beastmasters as a mop up unit? You've got tons of fire power but nothing to capitialise for when you blow troops out the transports. Beastmasters would do wonders for this.

As for not going first as long as you have terrain and everything has cover saves you should take a blow ok. Sometimes it maybe better to go second so you can do a refused flank (deploy your forces all on one flank) and attack a single part of the opponents forces, or going second allows the opponent to possibly come closer and into range of yuor guns. Lets face it if you go first you can only turbo boost for cover saves anyway as nothing will be in range except the dark lances.

I haven't considered Beastmasters. I find the cost of the models to be completely off-putting. I've been using my Venoms for absolutely hammering whatever drops out of a transport. I worry that they would draw my opponent's ant-infantry fire as well since they'd be the only non-AV unit consistently on the tabletop.

Trueborn have an effective ~32.5" range, since the back of their base is placed within 2" of the vehicle. Not to mention the Venom can still fire when moving 12" (and at a completely separate target). In Pitched Battle, if a Venom is on the 12" line, it can move forward 12", drop the Trueborn 2", and they can fire at 18". That's ~44.5" (since the back of the Trueborn is placed within 2") across the board on first turn. Of course, Dawn of War and Spearhead are a bit different.

Deadshane1 wrote:It's absolutely a solid list...it's almost identical to the netlist that Dash started up...obviously it's doing well.

I agree with not needing Vect. He's not needed in this sort of list. If you want a heavy hitting archon for CC use a generic.

A huge weakness I've seen on these sort of lists however is how weak they are against any army with significant volume of 4 foot range firepower. Your army is designed to dance at the 3-4 foot range and eliminate things w/o getting melta'd or shot at. Armies that feature lots of LONG range firepower mechanised...anyone with mass autocannons/lascannons/ or lots of mech mounted ranged firepower will give you headaches.

Spamming rifleman dreads (especially grey knight ones) on the table edge is the best way to say "You cannot win this game." to this sort of army.

Don't get me wrong; I don't find Vect to be "vital." I had the points and I think he compliments the list. In my mind, it is built for Alpha Striking.

While Psiflemen Dreads are difficult for many armies to deal with, I think my above point explains that Blasters can be put into 18" range very, very quickly.

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

At Alamo GT and Wargamescon, Dash had one squad of Wyches. I had the displeasure of being tabled in 2 shooting phases at Alamo GT... my poor Necrons.

Skarboy wrote:Solid list. I like Vect as a CC beast, but at 240 points, he's pricey, even at 2K. Also, his ability to seize really needs to be a focus of any list he's in, otherwise, you're paying a lot for a souped up Archon. Your list is not really built to seize, at least not as well as an infantry-heavy dark lance list that can risk being exposed during deployment to gamble on the seize. Do you really want to have your Ravagers and Venoms sitting out there against IG or SW missile spam hoping for a 4+ if the opponent isn't scared by Vect?

If you cut him, you would have 240 points. Spend 100 on 2 haemonculi and 70 each on upgrading two warrior squads to wyches in raiders. Should be about there on points. That should give you three assault units with haywires, plus a large mobile fire base. 6 venoms is still plenty.

Deadshane1 is right about the weaknesses of the list versus, in particular, mechanized shooty marines (lists with loads of riflemen, typhoon speeders, etc.). Having more vehicular assault units (wyches) can help offset this as they can tie up riflemen quite well and are death to chimera/razorback parking lots.

If my opponent has first, I'll get to see their deployment before I put any of my own units out. Depending on terrain, I could full reserve and hope for the 4+ while hiding as many of my vehicles as possible. It's unlikely that I'll put the entire army in plain sight as close to the enemy as possible if I don't have first turn, but it is an option. If the 4+ actually worked in that case, it could easily turn the game into a Massacre.

Deadshane1 wrote:

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

One wych, beast unit and the baron....other than that it's pretty identical. Blasters blasters blasters venoms venoms venoms and some other stuff.

I didnt say that either...but he's definatly helped put them on the map. Up until just recently people have been complaining about how DE fall short against IG and generally in tournament. Claiming to "invent" venom spam is like claiming to "invent" using melta to bust tanks....it's an obvious route to take within the codex. While he didnt invent it, he's definatly a spokesman for this sort of army.

I had this list roughly ironed out in my head before I even stumbled upon Dash. In fact, I was directed to him on Dakka by a friend who knew I was building a similar list. I used to browse Warseer exclusively before that. Good for him that he is associated with such a list though. I find it to be very strong.

I could go more like this:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Haemonculus
Haemonculus
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 1900

As you can see, I have 100 points to spare. I haven't decided on equipment for the Haemonculi yet. Everything else is completely decked out.

Thoughts?

errr... you have 7 troop choices?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
get some jet bikes with blasters on them. and liquifiers for the Haemys

Thanks for the catch. I copy/ pasted the list. I've now fixed it above. I dropped Vect and a Warrior squad in favor of another Haemonculus and Wych squad.

So with the extra hundred points, if you are not doing blaster bikes, look into some upgrades for your transports. A couple grisely trophies on venoms help quite a bit. Seeing as how DE die so fast. Shadow field onthe blasterborn venoms and the raider is pretty tactical as well

Deadshane1 wrote:

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

One wych, beast unit and the baron....other than that it's pretty identical. Blasters blasters blasters venoms venoms venoms and some other stuff.

I didnt say that either...but he's definatly helped put them on the map. Up until just recently people have been complaining about how DE fall short against IG and generally in tournament. Claiming to "invent" venom spam is like claiming to "invent" using melta to bust tanks....it's an obvious route to take within the codex. While he didnt invent it, he's definatly a spokesman for this sort of army.

My point is you don't need to say it ripped it off someone elses list. Venoms are dedicated transports and a good host of units can take them. Any monkey reading the codex can put units into Venoms and mass Wytches into Raiders as mop up units. Hell I did this myself after reading the codex and never seen Dash's list until recently.

Venom spam is venom spam is venom spam... However, the list looks rather mean at 1900 pts.

I'm still stuck on the remaining 100 points! I believe each Wych squad needs a Haemonculus and I can't really fit anything else in the list.

Anyone wanna help Me with dark eldar?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/381719.page

I've been giving the list more thought and I believe I'm going to try what I originally conceived. I've just got to finish putting together a few more Venoms and my last Raider:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
10 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 2 Shardnet & Impalers, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
10 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 2 Shardnet & Impalers, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 1997

Obviously, I'd like to have a Haemonculus in each Wych squad, but I don't see that happening. I have found Wyches to be plenty viable without FnP as well.

Thoughts?

In all my experience with wyches they practically need Haems to survive. When you lose you transport on average you're losing 4-5 wyches, which, to me, in unacceptable. Compare that to losing two wyches and having a 4+/4+.

I like the list a lot, except if I were to run it myself, I wouldn't have the 5 man blaster kabalite teams. That's just personal opinion tho, since they seem to do little more than nothing when I play them. I have since started using 3 wracks to get the extra venoms, one or two with grisley trophies.

It's true that wyches can do without a haemonculus, if they don't get shot out of the raider before they make it to an enemy.

How about this:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Haemonculus - Shattershard, Liquifier Gun
Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun
Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
3 Wracks - Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
3 Wracks - Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
3 Wracks - Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 1998

I could drop each Liquifier Gun to add another Wrack to each Venom.

Thoughts?