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This hasn't came up yet in a game but would the crest from the top of a dire avenger head be considered part of the body in terms of drawing true LOS

I would say yes, but it's such a tiny part in comparison with the rest of the Jetbike that I doubt that it'll ever come up. Ever.

Really? We are really having this question asked? So would leaving the crest off count as modelling for advantage? maybe...

I would count it as a 'decorative element'... if it's all that you can see, it's no different to trying to draw LOS to a banner top or a sword blade.

Agreed with insaniak. It is not a valid target.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Really? We are really having this question asked? So would leaving the crest off count as modelling for advantage? maybe...

It's actually modeling for disadvantage. By default, guardian jetbikes do NOT have the crests on them.

Thank you Insaniak and Grkmar I concur

I'm on the fence with this one, had a guy once claim he could open up since the crest was visible

Personally i'm leaning towards just decorative, i mean how effective is shooting at hair on a helmet?

This is different than a sword blade or banner....

Lets say a krak missle hits your banner, big whoop, part of the staff holding the cloth is broken.

Lets say a krak missle hits the top part of your helmet, there goes your head....

Now im not saying I would take advantage of that but I could see why someone would count it.

The rules against targeting models when you can only see their non-essential decorative bits are not solely intended to represent whether or not hitting that part would hurt them. They're also there in some way to mitigate the fact that our models are all stuck in fixed poses, where the warriors they are representing would be moving around.

Why not put them on lower flight stands and call it fair game? It's easier on everyone.

Gonna have to go with the hat is targetable, I mean if someone sees the tip of my SM Helm by all means fire away, even if its the fancy one with the Sparticus Puff

Commissar Typhus wrote:This is different than a sword blade or banner....

Lets say a krak missle hits your banner, big whoop, part of the staff holding the cloth is broken.

Lets say a krak missle hits the top part of your helmet, there goes your head....

Now im not saying I would take advantage of that but I could see why someone would count it.

Hits helmet, yes there goes your head. Flies through a horse-hair(or 40k, and eldar equivalent), it is going to keep on flying.

The OP did not say all that was visible was the head, he said all that was visible was the Crest, I assume that to mean the Plume of Mohawk-hair(since that is was the crest of a helmet is).

I'd go with an: if all you can see is the hair-crest, No LOS; If you can see the top of the helmet, you have LOS(but the DAJB has a Cover save).

Why interpret anything? The rules clearly say on page 16: "head, torso, arms, legs". They do not say hair, banner, weapon or other ornament. Hair on your helmet is an ornament.

Homer

If someone says you can target it, then you get to draw LOS from it to shoot. Seems fair to me.

racta wrote:If someone says you can target it, then you get to draw LOS from it to shoot. Seems fair to me.

Well, that's way too restrictive. You can draw LOS to any body part, but can only draw LOS from the eyes.

Imagine a model that is standing directly behind a wall, but his arm and leg are sticking out. On the other side of that wall, a good distance away, is an enemy model. The model directly behind the wall wouldn't be able to draw LOS to (and therefor shoot) the enemy. But, the enemy can draw LOS to the model and shoot it.

Well, don't the dire avengers have cone head helmets under/ in the center of the frill, like all eldar? The top of the helmet definitely counts.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Well, don't the dire avengers have cone head helmets under/ in the center of the frill, like all eldar? The top of the helmet definitely counts.

Here is what the DA helmets look like. Helmet = head, helmet stops at the ornamentation where the fringe starts.

Homer

Heads are kind of a part of the model, so yes. If you don't want your stuff to be visible, then don't use that model or unit. If losing a miniature is so important that your models are getting in the way of your game, then change your army selection. Or even better, just deal with the fact that the Dire Avengers are a little taller than the others... deal...

I would like OP to indicate on a photo of the model exactly where he would propose the decorative element to begin.

If we're just talking the hair then okay. If we're talking any of the helmet that protrudes above the head then this is the start of a very slippery slope.

is this what 40k has become? this discussion is a bit pathetic. arguing over whether or not a poof of hair counts in LOS goes against the spirit of the game. just model it the way you like, and have a discussion with your opponent if the situation ever arises where the said poof is the only visible part of your jetbike unit. if, at that time, you cannot agree, then roll off to impartially decide.

this game is between you, and your opponent, not you, your internet allies, and the opponent and his internet crew. just play the game and have fun with the silly things that come up. trying to work everything out before hand in some grand online discussion is really sad.

If trying to work out issues of interpretation and play on the internet between games is sad, how sad is reading that same discussion merely to criticize rather than contribute?

Vacahaha, that argument (every time it comes up) always misses the following two points:

1. Talking on the internet is, in itself, an enjoyable pastime for folks.
2. Talking about and hashing out this stuff here helps us SAVE VALUABLE TIME AT THE TABLE when we are actually gaming with our buddies, by giving us a grounding in the rules and other peoples' opinions on them.

@ Scott-S6 Yes I was only talking about the actual hair crest guys, it will be okay .