Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Hellhound variants seem fairly interesting-

You have the Classic Hellhound, which seems like the most well-rounded of the three, and IG's most cost-effective coversave-denying vehicle.

Then there's the Bane Wolf, which seems like the most situational because you have to get so close with it. However, its gun counts as Str 1, making a defensive weapon so you'd be able to move 12" and fire it and the heavy flamer.

Finally you have the Devil Dog, having the weird status of a blast-template multi-melta.

These tanks seem fun to use because they are Fast and two of them use template weapons, which helps the Guard's lackluster accuracy. But the problem I see is that they have to get so close to whatever it is they are shooting. And I'm betting whatever they are attacking is going to try to kick their teeth in the following turn if they survive.

Any ideas Tactics-wise? How about using a squadron of 2 Banewolves with smoke launchers, alternating the smoke on each while you get into range (a squadron of two can benefit from the coversave of 1 using smoke). Then when you get close to the squad in question, assuming it doesn't have meltabombs or powerfists etc tank shock them to try and bunch them up and fry em with both chemcannons/heavy flamers.

Can't hellhounds scout? Meaning you can outflank it and not have to worry about zipping it across the board, that and it's a pretty good all rounder

Then there's the Bane Wolf, which seems like the most situational because you have to get so close with it. However, its gun counts as Str 1, making a defensive weapon so you'd be able to move 12" and fire it and the heavy flamer.

Love Bane Wolves, absolutely love them. Yes, you have to get close...so do your 3x meltagun vet squads. Gives the opponent something incredibly scary, close, and -must- be dealt with now to get attention off the chimera mechvets.

Just be sure not to use the heavy flamer and the chem cannon on the same target unless its got a 4+ save or less. Nothing like turning what was going to be 6 MEQs down with the chem cannon shot to <**********> by firing the heavy flamer, and allowing him to play wound allocation crap.

SOFDC wrote:

Then there's the Bane Wolf, which seems like the most situational because you have to get so close with it. However, its gun counts as Str 1, making a defensive weapon so you'd be able to move 12" and fire it and the heavy flamer.

Love Bane Wolves, absolutely love them. Yes, you have to get close...so do your 3x meltagun vet squads. Gives the opponent something incredibly scary, close, and -must- be dealt with now to get attention off the chimera mechvets.

Just be sure not to use the heavy flamer and the chem cannon on the same target unless its got a 4+ save or less. Nothing like turning what was going to be 6 MEQs down with the chem cannon shot to <**********> by firing the heavy flamer, and allowing him to play wound allocation crap.

A nasty little trick is to keep it in reserve, and deliver it unto the enemy as they close upon your lines. Zooming out twelve inches and hosing down a squad just as it thought it was going to wreak havoc on your gunline is nothing to be sniffed at.

MikZor wrote:Can't hellhounds scout? Meaning you can outflank it and not have to worry about zipping it across the board, that and it's a pretty good all rounder

They can outflank if they get scout from creed. They don't have scout.

Hellhounds aren't that short ranged, at least compared to a chimera HF. With a 6" move and 12" + template, it could probably roast a unit sitting just inside the enemy DZ.

All 3 variants are good, but none are needed.

Hellhound: IG is often loaded with quad flamer pcs and chimera hf, so the army is hardly short on flamers.

Banewolf: If the flame template catches 6 models a banewolf kills 5 meq or 5 orcs/genestealers, or a quad flamer pcs jumping out of a chimera or vendetta kills 4 meq or 12 orcs/genestealers...

Devil dog shares a codex with melta vets and the vendetta...

I have used them with disappointing results.

Hellhound - the 12 inch +template is nice, but you still have to get reasonably close. That means whatever it hosed will likely assault it back next turn and take it out of the game due to CC rules (hit back armor Av10). Now you just wasted 120 pts on a one-hit deal. For even better stats and much larger range and far more survivability, pay a bit more and get yourself a colossus.

Banewolf - very nice against MEQ, but you have to be even closer than with Hellhound, so the same problem.

Devil Dog - pointless when you can get a vendetta for the same cost and snipe with 3 TL LC from 48 inches away.

They sound nice but in reality are redundant. Also, if they get wrecked, they block passage to other IG vehicles, block LoS and provide cover to the enemy. So, my two models stay pretty in my box waiting for a chance from the new edition.

I use banewolves and hellhounds from time to time, but stay away from the DD. Banewolves for marines and hellhounds for any horde army.

In a gunline type army they can be useful supporting your troops once the enemy gets close, nothing to ruin an assault marines day like a banewolf firing its poisoned flamer followed by a regular HF backed up by a couple of dozen lasguns and special weapons. Since you can move at cruising speed any potential chargers would only hit on 6:es which decreases the risk compared to using LRMBTs for the same purpose.

The big issue for me is usually getting close, but if you use LRMBTs you can sort of hide it behind them and then dart forward and fire.

There isn't a whole lot a hellhound variant can do that a Valkyrie variant can't do better.

Devildogs underpeform Vendettas offensively against most everything not named "Land Raider", and the only defensive advantage is the use of cover. Which is hard to take advantage of when you need to be within 12" of the target most of the time.

Hellhounds only outperform rocket pod Valkyries on a few targets. 4+ save units, T3 multiwound targets, and possibly targets that are really, really bunched up after an assault. Dual 4/6 large templates + a multilaser and constant SMF saves are just better. Plus transport.

Banewolves w/ multimelta may do better than either at 2+ save units and maybe general 3+ units with still having some anti-tank. It's difficult to hit a lot of models with a flame template due to small unit sizes, and the Banewolf is SO short ranged though. For this one, the skimmer competition is probably more survivable since you don't have to be a point-blank.

The Grog wrote:There isn't a whole lot a hellhound variant can do that a Valkyrie variant can't do better.

Devildogs underpeform Vendettas offensively against most everything not named "Land Raider", and the only defensive advantage is the use of cover. Which is hard to take advantage of when you need to be within 12" of the target most of the time.

Hellhounds only outperform rocket pod Valkyries on a few targets. 4+ save units, T3 multiwound targets, and possibly targets that are really, really bunched up after an assault. Dual 4/6 large templates + a multilaser and constant SMF saves are just better. Plus transport.

Banewolves w/ multimelta may do better than either at 2+ save units and maybe general 3+ units with still having some anti-tank. It's difficult to hit a lot of models with a flame template due to small unit sizes, and the Banewolf is SO short ranged though. For this one, the skimmer competition is probably more survivable since you don't have to be a point-blank.

The key point for the hellhound is that it denies coversaves. Want to get that squad of IG out of cover? Inferno cannon. Contrary to RP/ML it has AP4 so it can kill anything that isn't marines without armor saves and it has 2 more strength than RP giving you a 2+ wound against T4.

A Banewolf is designed to kill marines in power armor, plain and simple. AP3 always wounds on 2+? Check. Main weapon counts as defensive allowing you to fire all weapons even if you move 12"? Check. No coversaves? Check.

The banewolf I can see have situational uses but along with the devildog, I could never warrent taking something which might find its niche once in a blue moon.

The Hellhound on the otherhand has proven itself to me on a number of occasions as a little beast. It's armour is just enough to keep it safe from most small arms fire of it's intended targets (light infantry) It can lay heavy wounds on them and if used as a squad, quite literally zoom down one side of the board, hosing the enemy down. The only downside is, usless your facing horde, its lackluster. Thats the only gamble with it and its a big one.

Hellhound with hull multi-melta is nice. Dual purpose and can fire after moving 12". Positioning the template allows you to cover a squad after they disembark from a destroyed vehicle and the hull multi-melta gives the tank a credible anti-tank threat at a surprising 36". (12" to move and 24" to fire)

They are not useless, but as pointed out, have heavy overlap with more generally useful options. They all suffer from relatively short range. They should also be fewer points- there is almost no reason to take them when they clock in at vendetta cost and are only 20-30 points less than a russ. Price them closer to say a hydra and they become viable.

I haven't seen much need for a hellhound when you get heavy flamers and flamer vets/pcs. 12 inches doesn't really cut it for the cost and non scoring. The devil dog is a neat idea, but at BS 3 and needing to get close for the melta rule, the vendetta generally performs better and can transport. Likewise, the AP3 template is a neat idea, but, in practice, it probably means death by melta. So killing 4-6 15 pt guys for a 130 point vehicle- not the best trade. And with any of them, if the main gun is knocked off, you have the equivalent of a no turret chimera without transport ability.

You should also figure in the model size when comparing it to a Vendetta.

Being Chimera size means it can use your tank wall to get a bit of cover, and still be able to launch its template/blast out. In fact a Hellhound moving behind a Chimera wall provides a nice bit of anti-infantry that can't be taken out too easily.

Also, the AP 1 of the Devil Dog is very beneficial for a list that focuses on infantry platoons (which generally use Autocannons).

Keep in mind they are also all fast, mening a 12" move + range of the weapon. And they don't really need to get all that close other than the Bane Wolf obviously.

I can't speak for the other variants, but I use a Hellhound in all my games and I can safely say that it has performed admirably for me every single time.

The 12" + directional S6 template is pretty much a license to hit every single model in a 10-man unit, and even MEQs fail saves when you give them that many to take. Against pure objective campers such as Scouts, Pathfinders, Kroot, Grots, Lootas etc. etc. it wreaks complete havoc. It also does a number on skimmers and other light vehicles such as Trukks that rely upon their SMF/KFF to keep themselves alive.

It is fast, so if they do assault you back they are hitting on 6s, and if they don't kill it you can zoom off 18" and leave them all bunched up for templates, or move 12" and flame them again. It can also move 18" and contest an objective; I won a C&C game because of this.

Every time I've used a Hellhound my opponent's have underestimated it. Now they give it as much respect as my Vendettas, and having another major threat on the board is never a bad thing. If it had Scout it would be perfect...

L. Wrex

I agree with Lycaeus on this one. I typically have two Vendettas in seperate FOC slots and then a squadron of two Hellhounds.

The nice thing about Hellhounds is that you can usually perfectly overlap targets with two of them in a squadron, so four hits becomes eight and so on. You don't always get quite that lucky for hull mounted flamers or even a flamer PCS. Also, while they don't have AP3, S6 is hurting MEQ on 2+, which makes it hardly a BAD choice. I've used those two hellhounds to cripple terminator squads before.

The problem with the other two is that they cover applications I have no need for. Banewolf sports an anti-MEQ template that has to cover every last guy otherwise it's going to leave the one I was actually worrying about alive still, and I can fire a LRBT or Bassie across the table, achieving the same ends without potentially sacrificing 120 points. Devil Dog has what would be an awesome weapon, were it not blast. on average, it scatters 4 inches, and it's a small blast, meaning that it's less likely to hit it's target in some form or another than most other blasts in the IG, and to make matters worse, it's designed for vehicles, which is that one thing you need a direct hit upon.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I can't speak for the other variants, but I use a Hellhound in all my games and I can safely say that it has performed admirably for me every single time.

The 12" + directional S6 template is pretty much a license to hit every single model in a 10-man unit, and even MEQs fail saves when you give them that many to take. Against pure objective campers such as Scouts, Pathfinders, Kroot, Grots, Lootas etc. etc. it wreaks complete havoc. It also does a number on skimmers and other light vehicles such as Trukks that rely upon their SMF/KFF to keep themselves alive.

It is fast, so if they do assault you back they are hitting on 6s, and if they don't kill it you can zoom off 18" and leave them all bunched up for templates, or move 12" and flame them again. It can also move 18" and contest an objective; I won a C&C game because of this.

Every time I've used a Hellhound my opponent's have underestimated it. Now they give it as much respect as my Vendettas, and having another major threat on the board is never a bad thing. If it had Scout it would be perfect...

L. Wrex

I like to use the Banewolf in squadrons (or 2 in separate slots if i have space) against MEQ-mech lists. Here's how i do it: Take a couple of colossi for HS as well as anything that works well for de-meching, combine that with 2 banewolves and some acav and wait for de-meching. The colossi then lay down a constant barrage of fire while the BW's zoom around midfield killing of stragglers while firing both a heavy flamer and poison cannon and still moving 12". With any luck your opponent will be split between taking out the artillery or the BW's and vendettas midfield.
Dart in, fire, dart back and let rip a volley of artillery taking out anything that survived the poison-cannon, rinse, repeat.

It has worked well enough that a couple of my opponents now concentrate a lot of their fire towards the banewolves to stop them harassing, leaving the rest of my army alone. I don't know if its highly competitive, but sometimes it just feels nice to give a boot to the head of any cocky MEQ-player

Hellhound with a hull-mounted multimelta is the best/most flexible variant IMO.

The Banewolf shines in 2 regards. It helps deter MEQ deep striking close to your lines and it also discourages bikes (as in an all bike meq list) from turboboosting into your face which would mean death for the guard parking lot.

I also use Hellhounds with multi-meltas, and I like them. My 1500pts list runs two.

Scout would make them unreal. I just don't want to pay 95pts for Creed to do it...

DarthDiggler wrote:The Banewolf shines in 2 regards. It helps deter MEQ deep striking close to your lines and it also discourages bikes (as in an all bike meq list) from turboboosting into your face which would mean death for the guard parking lot.

Usually a plasma vet squad will perform the same role and scores. As to bikes, that is highly situational- the plasma do better versus termies.

Like I said, it's not that they are useless, far from it. Just not optimal.