Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I can't understand it America is testing rail weaponry right now why does the Imperium not have any?

Several possible reasons. Here's some right off the top of my head:

1) The AdMech had the technology but lost it.
2) The writers didn't conceive of it when working on Imperial background.
3) Tau already have it, and using Xenos technology is heresy.
4) In the history of the 40k universe, the US didn't develop rail weaponry.
5) It's science fiction, not the present day extrapolated 38,000 years into the future.

They do, they've had them for a long time but essentially moved on for more reliable and less finnicky weaponry(to use an example from Halo's novels, the MAC guns[which are rail weaponry, by concept] can't be used if exposed to an EMP because it polarizes the magnets used to accelerate the rounds).

Mass drivers are rail weapons. Quite a few ships have mass drivers, which are used for taking out ground targets rather than space targets.

Jwalker52 wrote:I can't understand it America is testing rail weaponry right now why does the Imperium not have any?

Also, remember just how far the Imperium has fallen at this point, and just how much of the 39,000 years or so haven't been filled in.

For all we know, Humanity may have perfected rail weaponry before or during the 'Golden Age', only to lose it in the Age of Strife.

They use it on some warships:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nova_cannon

As to why they don't use it on tanks and whatnot I'd guess their simply better off with the 30 battle cannons they can make for the same cost as that 1 railgun.

jonolikespie wrote:They use it on some warships:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nova_cannon

As to why they don't use it on tanks and whatnot I'd guess their simply better off with the 30 battle cannons they can make for the same cost as that 1 railgun.

Railguns are fragile, require huge power sources, and don't allow for large amounts of variable ammunition like battle cannons do.

If you were the Imperium, which would you do?

Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

woodbok wrote:Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

Because that's HERESY.

Why steal Xenos equipment when you have better available to you?

I'm not really sure why people are so consistently wowed by railguns as some kind of 'pinnacle' of technology.

The fact that we are currently developing rail weaponry should be a pretty clear indicator of that.

Anyways.
Railguns have all the limitations of solid projectile weaponry(carrying ammunition, requires all kinds of maintenance, etc) with an added downside of vulnerability to EMP and polarization of the magnets from firing too often, and if the 'track' that is used to accelerate the round isn't perfectly maintained...poof. You've just blown your main weapon apart in the first shot.

I'll take a Lascannon or a Leman Russ Battle Cannon over a Rail Rifle or Hammerhead Railgun anyday.

coolyo294 wrote:

woodbok wrote:Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

Because that's HERESY.

I'm a heratic already.

coolyo294 wrote:

woodbok wrote:Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

Because that's HERESY.

And a decent chunk of the Admech consists of heretics.

What's your point?

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

woodbok wrote:Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

Because that's HERESY.

And a decent chunk of the Admech consists of heretics.

What's your point?

That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

coolyo294 wrote:

woodbok wrote:Steal xenos equipment. Valeria does it, why not everyone else?

Because that's HERESY.

But the Adeptus Mechanicus is doing it all the time. They examine xeno tech ant trying to implement that into the Imperium's existing one. Saw that in few comics and read if few books. They also study and catalog every other major STC found and immediately upgrade Imperium's tech.

As fo the Imperium and rail tech, they have it but only on ships. It would be quite impossible to distribute that tech to the rest of Imperium's forces ( when you have ~ number of troops it get's quite hard to distribute all available tech to them... ). Just see Vanquishers, how many can be made and how much is demand for them...

coolyo294 wrote:
That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

Yet they still make attempts to reverse-engineer it so that they can use it?

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:
That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

Yet they still make attempts to reverse-engineer it so that they can use it?

They are?

coolyo294 wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:
That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

Yet they still make attempts to reverse-engineer it so that they can use it?

They are?

Deathwatch makes mention of them trying to reverse-engineer Tau stealth field generators...but they're not up to where it can be mass produced or used by anyone except the Deathwatch because it still uses Xenos tech to fully operate.

Kanluwen wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:
That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

Yet they still make attempts to reverse-engineer it so that they can use it?

They are?

Deathwatch makes mention of them trying to reverse-engineer Tau stealth field generators...but they're not up to where it can be mass produced or used by anyone except the Deathwatch because it still uses Xenos tech to fully operate.

This is a revelation to me.

The Deathwatch for a long time now has been gathering Xenos tech for the Mechanicus and Ordo Xenos to study and try to figure out how it works.

Cool.

Jwalker52 wrote:I can't understand it America is testing rail weaponry right now why does the Imperium not have any?

we're not exactly "testing" the technology. its there, we have it, its been in use for some time. (just not as a field weapon)

what we ARE doing is trying to find a way to power the damn things on the battlefield so they don't weigh a million pounds and get 1-2 shots out of it.

don't as how I know, I can't tell you. just trust me on this.

ok ok I did a job as a contractor for cabling at a place that is in development of the weapon system. can't go into details (signed an NDA) but some of the stuff the engineer's showed me was freaking COOL!

coolyo294 wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:
That using Xenos equipment is heresy?

Yet they still make attempts to reverse-engineer it so that they can use it?

They are?

I also read somewhere that it is an important quest for AM to examine Necron Gauss technology. Why, nobody knows...
If I am to guess, they are interested in how stuff work so that can produce one themselves...

Even if using xeno tech and discovering something new is heresy ( officially ) I bet that there is some secret order in MEchanicus itself who devote themselves into examining alien tech and then re-purpose it si that Imperium can use it to. Like secret Eldar-Inquisition pacts...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rimmy wrote:

Jwalker52 wrote:I can't understand it America is testing rail weaponry right now why does the Imperium not have any?

we're not exactly "testing" the technology. its there, we have it, its been in use for some time. (just not as a field weapon)

what we ARE doing is trying to find a way to power the damn things on the battlefield so they don't weigh a million pounds and get 1-2 shots out of it.

don't as how I know, I can't tell you. just trust me on this.

ok ok I did a job as a contractor for cabling at a place that is in development of the weapon system. can't go into details (signed an NDA) but some of the stuff the engineer's showed me was freaking COOL!

I am not surprised, after seeing that robot in Iraq and testing for invisible tank and solder I am not surprised even if America use particle cannon against Iran...
But to be fair, you tell everything you are researching. Russians are very quiet about that and they tested plasma weaponry in 70-is...
I wouldn't be surprised if Russians have time warping weapons beneath Siberia...

Kanluwen wrote:Why steal Xenos equipment when you have better available to you?

I'm not really sure why people are so consistently wowed by railguns as some kind of 'pinnacle' of technology.

The fact that we are currently developing rail weaponry should be a pretty clear indicator of that.

Anyways.
Railguns have all the limitations of solid projectile weaponry(carrying ammunition, requires all kinds of maintenance, etc) with an added downside of vulnerability to EMP and polarization of the magnets from firing too often, and if the 'track' that is used to accelerate the round isn't perfectly maintained...poof. You've just blown your main weapon apart in the first shot.

I'll take a Lascannon or a Leman Russ Battle Cannon over a Rail Rifle or Hammerhead Railgun anyday.

I would prefer the gun which allows me to score a reliable kill long before the enemy is in range with his lascanon. Shells have the danger if tending to start a quite nasty fire or even blow up once your tank suffers a penetrating hit. They also weight more and are much bigger than a railgun projectile which limits the number of rounds you can fire. The aditional problem that the Leman Russ battlecanon is aparently a low velocity/ high calibre weapon ( much like the early war british infantry tanks had ) doesn't make it look too promising when it comes to fighting against other tanks.

Regarding the op's question, it might be because Railguns are more difficult to manufacture and power than a lowtech battlecanon. Most industrialised worlds are able to produce the standard Leman Russ, far fewer would be able to produce a railgun equiped variant ( even assuming that the Mechanicus would provide the necessary theoretical knowledge ). Still, even the normal Leman Russ would be perfectly fine ( okok, it sucks as a tank design, but those of the various alien races aren't much better...i mean, 4m height for the Hammerhead? Well done Mr. Earthcaste worker...would you please also paint a bullseye on it? The lifes of our Firewarriors are cheap after all /o\ ) if there would be more Vanquishers, as dedicated tankhunters, around.

Rimmy wrote:
what we ARE doing is trying to find a way to power the damn things on the battlefield so they don't weigh a million pounds and get 1-2 shots out of it.

TBH thanks to the wonders of Nuclear Fission, power isn't going to be an issue. What's GOING to be an issue is replacing the barrel everytime you've fired, as you correctly noted.

The Imperium has technology that is basically magic to us modern folk. What they don't have is the means to saturate their empire with it. Just because every joe-bob guardsman isn't carrying something doesn't mean the Imperium doesn't have it.

the Imperium has rail technology, it just isn't small enough to use planetside.

their space ships use Magnetic acceleration weapons in addition to plasma and laser weapons.

Nova Cannons are Railguns which hurl explosive charges as powerful as a small sun.


the Tau have simply managed to miniaturize Rail weaponry so it can be on a battle tank.




another reason could be that they have the Tech, but don't need it or its impractical. why use something more complicated that it needs to be for the task?

Railguns are complicated, require alot of power, and solid ammunition. Lascannons simply require power. Battlecannons just need ammo. Lascannons are complicated, but the imperium has also perfected Mass production and resource management so they can churn them out cheaply and efficiently. Battlecannons arn't complicated at all(breech, firing chamber, barrel. all made out of cheap metal.

Why make something complicated and often overkill when something cheaper and only slightly less powerful can do the same job? a Lascannon in-game is Str9 AP2. Railguns are Str10 Ap1. the Lascannon can be run at a 3-1 ratio to Railguns. the increased volume overcomes the minor strength deficiency.

Silly Tau and their xeno-tech Railguns bringing down Titans and IG tanks.

Kanluwen wrote:

jonolikespie wrote:They use it on some warships:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nova_cannon

As to why they don't use it on tanks and whatnot I'd guess their simply better off with the 30 battle cannons they can make for the same cost as that 1 railgun.

Railguns are fragile, require huge power sources, and don't allow for large amounts of variable ammunition like battle cannons do.

If you were the Imperium, which would you do?

I disagree with your opinion on Rail Tech.

If they are built by a backwards faction like the IoM they are bad... But Rail tech offers a ton in firepower if built well.

Tau railguns utterly break the notion that the weapon isn't durable. It's equipped on Suits, Soldiers, Aircraft, and Tanks. It sees deployment on all fronts and is if anything one of the most reliable weapons out there. Saying railguns are all limited to one standard of quality, is like saying all modern day rifles are the same quality and craftsmanship.

Theatrical reasons mostly. The IoM is a primitive advanced army and not meant to be what an actual army would look like in the space age. That job belongs to the tau.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

jonolikespie wrote:They use it on some warships:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nova_cannon

As to why they don't use it on tanks and whatnot I'd guess their simply better off with the 30 battle cannons they can make for the same cost as that 1 railgun.

Railguns are fragile, require huge power sources, and don't allow for large amounts of variable ammunition like battle cannons do.

If you were the Imperium, which would you do?

I disagree with your opinion on Rail Tech.

If they are built by a backwards faction like the IoM they are bad... But Rail tech offers a ton in firepower if built well.

Tau railguns utterly break the notion that the weapon isn't durable. It's equipped on Suits, Soldiers, Aircraft, and Tanks. It sees deployment on all fronts and is if anything one of the most reliable weapons out there. Saying railguns are all limited to one standard of quality, is like saying all modern day rifles are the same quality and craftsmanship.

Railguns are "limited" because they cannot be equipped with the sheer variety of ammunition that standard cannons and ballistic weapons can be.
There's two styles of ammunition for railguns and other mass driver weaponry, for all intents and purposes, that have been theorized.
One is the standard 'kinetic kill' ammo which is a solid bolt that uses its sheer mass to blow holes in the target and the other is essentially a giant 'frag' round which is a casing that shatters on impact with a solid surface OR that gets shed during flight with the casing being filled with smaller chunks of metal, BBs, whatever that shred the targets inside of the structure or cover.

Now, you tell me, again which you would use--the tank which can be fielded in large numbers and can swap out ammo(which, admittedly, isn't represented outside of Forge World and irks me to no end--but hey, they had to settle and the points would have been excessive otherwise), or the tank which requires is limited to two specific kinds of ammunition?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Tau railguns utterly break the notion that the weapon isn't durable. It's equipped on Suits, Soldiers, Aircraft, and Tanks. It sees deployment on all fronts and is if anything one of the most reliable weapons out there. Saying railguns are all limited to one standard of quality, is like saying all modern day rifles are the same quality and craftsmanship.

Shhh. Kan doesn't like to believe that any tech other than IoM tech is worthwhile.

I love my broadsides, they kill Titans ded, there's no "a" because the titan's dead before spell check can fix it.