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Hey guys ...

I am new to the table top play (TTP is what I'm calling it) of 40k but I have been a long time admire of it and an avid 40k video game fan since Space Hulk first released for the NES in 1996! I am so siked to finally have met a friend with some real long time knowledge of the TTP version and who is also really creative with conversions. I am even more siked that's he is mentoring me on how to learn and play the game! Unfortunately, he is not awake 24/7 to answer all my "noob" questions lolz! So, I thought I'd make this post to cater to all my whims and advice seeking efforts.

I didn't see a general forum topic dedicated for newbs with tons of questions about the rules and such; so, I'm starting one.
I'd like to streamline this forum primarily for general game play and wargear rules (but not for strategy advice or painting advice etc) so please keep the replies and posts on topic for all us newbies to get rule advice from.
Don't scoff ... all you pros still have a chance to show us how much you know about the rules and appear epic! Yeah fan oppurtunites! So, spread the wealth of knowledge ! Prease.
All are welcome just be gentle ... I still have my 40k baby teeth.

Ok todays questions...

1. If I choose dual storm bolters on an HQ NON terminator unit, do I get 2 ranged attacks with each bolter in ranged phase or does the second storm bolter only add a +1 to the ranged attack during this phase? I Haven't seen it in the rule book yet.

2. Can I affix a small chainsword to it (like the one used on the Chainfist) and have a combi weapon out of it ? If so, what's it's cost? Because, I only see costs for combi meltas, flamers etc.

KillThemAll wrote:
1. If I choose dual storm bolters... do I get a 2 ranged attacks with each bolter in ranged phase or does the second storm bolter only add a +1 to the ranged attack during this phase. Haven't seen it in the rule book yet.

2. can I affix a small chainsword to it (like the chain fist) and have a combi weapon out of it ? If so, what's it's cost because I only see costs for combi meltas, flamers etc.

Hey there,

1. If you use normal Infantry-models, you can only ever choose one ranged weapon to fire. And no, you will not get any additional ranged attacks (lets call it "shots" because attacks is in general a melee statline). You get an additional melee attack from wielding 2 close combat weapons, you cannot increase the shooting power of one weapon by wielding 2 (unless there is a special rule, and I'm pretty sure there is no special character in the game with 2 storm bolters.)

Exception: Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles: Monstrous Creatures with 2 same weapons treat it as one twin-linked weapon. Vehicles of course can fire as many stormbolters as they have, since their combat capabilities are based on its movement speed.


2. Nope, there are no self-made Combi-Weapons in the game. Model-wise, it's cool; Rule-wise you will never get any benefit out of it. (Except Games Workshop decides to implement more Gunblades / Gears of War weapons....)

1) I am assuming this is on an infantry model, and not on a vehicle like a rhino?

In the first case, I'm not sure if you get to shoot with each bolter at normal range or if it changes anything at all. You definately cannot double the range of your SB or add +1 to the number of shots.

2)Well, you could affix a small chainsword to your storm bolter, but that would just look cool, kind of like the CSM terminators. However, a combi weapon is a specific type of weapon consisted of a bolter (not storm bolter) with a plasma gun, melta or flamer attached. A chainsword cannot make anything a combi weapon because it doesn't shoot.

A bolter is what normal SM carry around. A storm bolter is what shooty terminators carry around.

For future reference, if you have questions regarding the rules, I think you should post in "You make da call". Some people my get annoyed at having to answer what seems to be obvious questions for them, but others will understand and answer.

Welcome to 40k!

edit: ninja'd!

1 - If you somehow get two Storm Bolters, it'll make no difference. You can only fire once with a character. If it's on a vehicle, you can fire them both, and a Dreadnaught (most likely place for two Storm Bolters) can fire any two ranged weapons.

2 - No. Only the listed combi-weapons are available.

Also, you might wanna take a peek at the You Make the Call forum, where rules disputes go to die. They can usually answer questions like this pretty fast though.

Hey guys ... thanks for the quick replies...

No, actually this is not for a standard infantry unit. As stated it's for an HQ unit. Specifically a Space Wolves Wolf Guard Battle Leader which (according to their codex) can act as an HQ unit.
My Idea is to have him carry 2 storm bolters (one in each hand) for awesome ranged that still allow for assault because they are categorized as assault weapons and do not restrict assualt like a rapid fire or heavy weapon. And, I want to pair that with his melee skill augmented by "mark of the wulfen" which "ignores all Wargear and instead uses his TEETH for a D6+1 for attack and adds rend.:
Also on top of that I'm adding in "Wolftooth Necklace" with which adds "an automatic +3 for all attack rolls on monstrous, walkers and units with 5+ toughness. AND this unit only cost 101 points!!

See since I'm just starting out I will only have a 500 point army so I need to pack as much power and cost saving I can in every unit.

I don't see why logically I can't do this ... I mean. For one, other posts do say that 2 storm bolters one in each hand is legal; and, I'm not talking about using them in melee phase. In melee phase I'm using "mark of the Wulfen" which uses the units TEETH to gnash at the opponent according to the codex.

So my question still remains With all this added situational info... is it legal for me to use 2 storm bolters, one in each hand and get 2 ranged attacks from each bolter during ranged phase?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS thanks for advice on "you make da call" I'll check into that!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
PSS> found "you make da call"
posted there too > http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/383681.page

AS a basic principle ALL units follow the "infantry" rules unless stated otherwise. Being an HQ unit is, in itself, not a change - it just tells you which FOC slot they appear in.

Mostly an model will get a single ranged attack, using a single weapon.
If the model has 2 ranged weapons (bolter and pistol), you get to choose which weapon it uses.
It'll either count as twin-linked, for a reroll to hit, but that's normally just for vehicles, including Dreads.

So, having 2 stormbolters looks good, but gets you nothing extra.

For close combat, though, a single pistol and a CCW lets the model get a single additional attack.
2 pistols does not let you get that extra attack, usually, and only 1 extra is normally allowed, no matter how many weapons there are.

That last sentence is wrong. 2 pistols == 2 CCW == 1 extra attack. You just dont get 2 extra attacks.

KillThemAll wrote:

So my question still remains NO With all this added situational info... is it legal for me to use 2 storm bolters, one in each hand and get 2 ranged attacks from each bolter during ranged phase?

You may just fire one weapon per shooting phase with a wolf guard battle leader.
You can model the wolf guard to carry 2 stormbolters, but models =/= rules ( so you would waste 3 points....).
There are no longer any rules of "stealing wargear" from enemy units, so you don't get any benefit from replacing both chainsword and pistol for 2 Stormbolter.

Motorhead is right. You can only choose for one weapon to fire. However, if you were to give it 2 different weapons, it would make your tactic of using "Assault" weapons more viable. Even though you'd still only be able to shoot one of them per shooting phase, you'd have a choice between one of the two at the very least.

Good luck with your journey through 40K!

nosferatu1001 wrote:That last sentence is wrong. 2 pistols == 2 CCW == 1 extra attack. You just dont get 2 extra attacks.

Yup, true.
I meant:
Ranged: 1 pistol can be used. 1 weapon is used in the Shooting phase.
Close combat: Both are CCW, so both count for hitting someone with. +1 attack is given for having an extra CCW.

Thanks for bringing me up on that one.

KillThemAll wrote:So my question still remains With all this added situational info... is it legal for me to use 2 storm bolters, one in each hand and get 2 ranged attacks from each bolter during ranged phase?

Just to make this completely clear for you: As an infantry model (like the HQ you have described) you get exactly *1* shooting attack in the shooting phase. Period, end of story. Doesn't matter what weapons you are carrying. You get a single attack. Some special characters have two ranged weapons that are treated as a twin-linked weapon, but they still only get *1* shooting attack in the shooting phase, though can re-roll misses.

It is actually unlikely that you can purchase 2 storm bolters for the same model in most lists. You can certainly *model* the figure with two storm bolters to look cool and edgy, but no matter what that model still only gets *1* shooting attack in the shooting phase. Paying points for two storm bolters is a complete waste of points because you get nothing from doing so.

Skriker

Skriker wrote:It is actually unlikely that you can purchase 2 storm bolters for the same model in most lists. You can certainly *model* the figure with two storm bolters to look cool and edgy, but no matter what that model still only gets *1* shooting attack in the shooting phase. Paying points for two storm bolters is a complete waste of points because you get nothing from doing so.

First sentence is wrong.

Every Marine list can get 2 Storm bolters on just about every model with access to wargear options. Those models with generally have a bolter and bolt pistol(some with have Polt pistol and Chainsword, or any combination of the 3); they will then have weapon exchange options to exchange their "Boltgun and/or Boltpistol" for any of the options. The options will include a Storm bolter. The "And/Or" portion means that you may exchange either, or both for any given option; if you exchange your boltgun for a Storm bolter, you can then also exchange your Boltpistol for a Storm Bolter.

The rest is correct: It looks cool but is ultimately worthless, and you will pay double the cost for a single Stormbolter(so 2x points for 0 benefit).

Kill them all; Assuming you are looking to the Basic Space marine Codex, there is a Way to gain an extra shooting attack on a few HQs: the Auxiliary Grenade launcher; it has within its rules specification that it may be fired along with any other shooting weapon. It also makes for a nice back-up weapon for a CCW+Storm Shield or Paired CCW(relic Blade and Storm Shield, or paired lightning claws as specific examples).

To sum up......

Your wolf guard battle leader rules wise should replace his bolt pistol for a storm bolter. You are also getting the wolf tooth necklace and mark of the wolfen. You're HQ will cost you 98 points. Do not pay points for a second storm bolter as it does nothing for you. If you just want to make the guy look cool by modeling two onto him go for it but remember rules wise that does nothing for you.

The other two upgrades give your character d6+1 rending attacks that always hit on a roll of 3+(note the way you typed it was incorrect).

If you don't get something confirm it with your friend as well.

Thanks guys for info... sorry for late reply catching up.

Ok Droma that sounds good ... but guys what I’ve been thinking is the "role" in which this unit will play...
As he stands with the 98 points he's going to be better suited for ripping holes in common infantry or lower infantry units and medium units. With a high number of attack possibilities and 3+ to hit, he can wreck havoc on medium and light units. However, I am concerned about how well he will do for say heavy units like chaos marines because with 98 points he still has no invulnerable save and NO power weapons, not that great against Chaos Marines IMO. So....I can do a couple of things …

1. Keep him as a main light to medium troop inhalator and hope his 3+ power armor saves his ass a bunch
2. Spend some more points on storm shield and maybe drop the wolves so he can go after heavy units like chaos marines.
3. Forget MoTW and give him a wolf claw that will at least help his offense with all troop types but still won't help his defense much against power weapons.
OR
4. use him as described in #1 AND THEN add in a Lone wolf at @100 WITH a storm shield, wolf claws and wolf pets or with a plasma pistol no claws and MoTW (since he has beast slayer anyways but then again not that great AP without claws ) and use the Lone Wolf against the heavy units... I can even put LW in termy armor, give him claws, and MoTW for versatility and more attack rolls when needed and plasma pistol for 1 shot AP2 and 2 wolfs. I think that can be done for about 110points. Since the Lone Wolf base cost is only 20 points I can stock him up pretty well . I’m leaning towards that last one config idea with the termy armor and MoTw but everything at 100points or less is a trade off :( if I put him in termy armor I lose the 3+ invunerable. If I put him with the Shield I can only have one other hand weapon. Or can he have a shield, a gun and wolf claws ? Shield, wolfclaws and MoTW may be best config .. a little bit of wasted points with beastslayer and claws as well as over kill with MoTW and claws BUT he'll be highly versitile with high survive.
All together 500 army I am trying to build will go something like this

HQ = Wolf Guard Battle Leader with 2 wolf escorts, Motw, WTN, storm bolter
Elite = Lone with with SS, MoTW, Wolf claws. 2 wolf escorts (and plasma pistol if allowed)
Blood Claws = one with flamer, one with MoTW or Power fist.
Grey Hunters = one with pwfist, one with plasma gun/cannon
Long Fangs with 2 heavy bolters, 2 rocket launchers, and either power weapon for sargent or plasma cannon.. I'm leaning towards cannon and just keep these guys way out of range... with the long range and all the melee I have I should be able to intercept most attackers to long fans pretty good.

Priliminary calculations state I can do this all for just at 500 points .. I could get rid of the long fangs or Lone wolf and do a pack of 10-12 wolves for fast attack also.. .that may be interesting .. flood the field with melee and use them with the HQ instead of a retinue.

What do you guys think ?

Ps thanks again to everyone.. all posts helpful and useful and Kommisar thank you for added tip on Auxiliary Grenade Launcher worth looking to...