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Hey guys,

I know Ogres are supposed to get updated in October from what i hear, but how competitive are they now?

Ive been meaning to dive back into Fantasy fresh and thought it would be a big departure from what i usually play, which could be fun. Would i be getting destroyed mercilessly though prior to the update?

In all likelihood i wouldn't even have anything ready to field before that but i'm just curious.

From what I understand, Ogres are pretty low on the totem pole. Not wood elf bad, but still worse off than almost everyone else.

They're... not bad this edition, I suppose.

You'd want to run your Bulls in 3x2 formation now, as it's actually viable now. Ironguts can also do well in this formation. Butcher spam is still really good, but not as mandatory as it used to be. Essentially, you can bulk up your Ogre units and you should be good to go.

But on a quick note: If you're gonna start Ogres, buy the battalion ASAP. GW will probably raise the price/edit the battalion, making it slightly less useful.

Cool, thanks guys!

I don't suppose there is any info on new sculpts?

'Fraid not, sadly.

I'm really interested in how they'll work rules-wise now, though. And what new options the Ogres will have.

I really hope they don't make gastromancy like all other magic. I liked the unique aspect of it. However from what I'm hearing, all is not well on that front.

I'd like to see a 3 pack of yhetees the same way my beasts have minos(although granted i've never bought any of them)....wonder how they'll try to make a bull horde more appealing then it already is...new SC's would be interesting too

i can see them losing loremaster on every wizard and casting value going up, and it looks (due to SOM) it will be called lore of the great maw and the bloodgruel spell (+1W) will be the lore atrribute

Well, the main question is how are they doing now?

I think in low point games they absolutely kick ass. If you play like a 500pt game and the enemy isn't using some incredible cheese, you're going to smash the poo out of them. The higher the point value, I think the less competitive they become, as they have far less options than any other army in the game (Hey, Ogres!).

Necroshea wrote:From what I understand, Ogres are pretty low on the totem pole. Not wood elf bad, but still worse off than almost everyone else.

I've never really agreed with this. It's true that due to the new edition, there are a few drawbacks to them now, but for the most part i think they've gotten a bit of a boost. While losing the benefits that the original fear caused, having the chance to drop your opponents weapon skill to 1 is always something to hope for, plus now all those terror causing things (especially with storm of magic out) only cause fear instead of the possibly sending our fat lads running like little school girls. Stomps is not something to overlook, and the monstrous support rule is very helpful indeed. A single 3x2 unit of bulls with no champ is now throwing out 12 attacks, 13 with a champ unless you've given your guys iron fists, then you could be throwing 15 (16). Not really something to cringe at, but it could be quite effective, especially with the boosts that gut magic can give. Not being able to be killed by killing blow and having heroic killing blow being quite rare is a nice perk too. The bull charge can work, but the requirement to have charged over 6 inches to get it can be frustrating.

A hero level caster has a higher chance to survive any close combat problems it runs into then any other hero lvl caster (except for maybe a chaos one, though i'm not entirely sure on their stats). Pair that with low level spells that don't have the old dice cap on them, and the ability to have them stack over turns (it's been cleared up by the FAQ). The spells themselves are quite handy as well. Got a high armor unit (cold one knights) staring at your flank? Shoot 'em with a spell that doesn't allow armor saves. Bulls aren't as tough as you think they should be? Increase that toughness and make 'em stubborn, or give them regen. And just for kicks, make an enemy take a panic test.

A gnoblar unit can always shoot in two ranks, and even though your not getting high strength shots, your getting a good amount of them (2x each). Gnoblars should almost always be steadfast (bus or horde, they're cheap as dirt) and work well as meat shields since they can run in front of your ogres and if they run, no problem because they don't cause panic tests in ogres. They're also a good target for the runemaw standard (any spell that targets the unit that has the runemaw standard may bounce that spell to another unit on a 2+, whether the unit was a viable target or not). A unit of gnoblar fighters gives you a chance to get a scraplauncher, which has never failed to entertain me in all the games i've played, whether it launched a large killing blow template on things, or a misfire that caused a single gnoblar to go flying into the cranium of a dwarf (true story).

A number of the items are great, but with all the new ones in the big rule book, it's not much of a loss. The characters can be kitted out in a good amount of ways to give them a unique feel too. A few ogre characters aren't that useful, and the named ones almost require lists that are built around them (in my eyes at least). They can get pricey, but most of the time, they can make up for it (a tyrant ripping through entire units on his own is quite satisfying).

I can't think of much cheese that can be done with an ogre list, but i haven't really tried. As for competative, i haven't tried taking mine into a tourny, but i've played those lists and done well. Wins and loses as expected from any army that isn't cheesed out and not even fun to play against (i'm looking at you teclis).

All of that is really just my opinion on them, and i'm sure people can kill part of those ideas, but i've had a blast playing my ogres and am looking forward to the update.

Okay, here we go. I myself am an Ogre player. I'm not a grand one, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but from what I've heard, my words are backed up by competitive results.

Putting this simply, Ogres should not be counted out. A strong general with a refined list can very easily make Ogres Mid-teir, if not upper middle. Our main strength comes in our characters. Our character are exceeding strong. With this fact, the best way for Ogres is to play a VP denial game, keeping most units in a deathstar formation, with the character up front so the the enemy is denied attacks against RnF. This denial allows combat to almost always swing in our favor. Gut magic is also surprisingly strong. A simple T or S boost from it will mean that our non-deathstar units will generally win combat.

Scraplaunchers are also probably the one of the best artillery pieces as well. S3 KB large template, and it does pretty decent in combat. Being a chariot means it can move while throwing it's deadly payload as well as getting impact hits.

Ogres are not a top-tier army, but they certainly can be very strong in the right hands.

I think the biggest issue for them is that the big spells for several lores force inititive tests. It doesn't matter how much face you can smash or damage you can take when a purple sun (or dwellers below/pit of shadows) removes you from the game.

Which simply makes your anti-magic tactics all the more important.

I say go for it now. You'll gain valuable experience playing, instead of twiddling your thumbs waiting for the new rules and hoping they will make Ogres a lot stronger.

On top of that, by playing with Ogres while they are weak, you learn more about how to make the most of them. That way when the new books come out, you can incorporate the new tricks all the more effectively!

Lordjig6 wrote:i can see them losing loremaster on every wizard and casting value going up, and it looks (due to SOM) it will be called lore of the great maw and the bloodgruel spell (+1W) will be the lore atrribute

I am the same exact way

I2 isnt ecactly like your gonna all die with ogre initiative tests, undead, dwarfs etc have the same problems i think its the fact that people don't play them well that keeps them iun the lower tiers

Dont forget lizards those guys go slow too but still.

Ogres are not with out defense.

hopefully we wont have to wait long guys

The SOM book and cards state ogre magic as "Lore of the Great Maw" not gut magic as it is currently known as. Also, they have a Lore attribute like the new lores, is called "bloodgruel" which ATM is the 1st gut magic spell, and gives wounds back like the life attribute. Also the artwork on the SOM cards is new, i havent been able to find it anywhere, so this with the lack of the battalion box is looking hopeful!

One thing that iss often overlooked is that they are quite fast moving.

Also besides Purple Sun, Runmaw can protect ogres low I fairly well from spells, this I learned the hard way eh Kobald?

Scarecrow456 wrote:

Necroshea wrote:From what I understand, Ogres are pretty low on the totem pole. Not wood elf bad, but still worse off than almost everyone else.

I've never really agreed with this. It's true that due to the new edition, there are a few drawbacks to them now, but for the most part i think they've gotten a bit of a boost.
...
A single 3x2 unit of bulls with no champ is now throwing out 12 attacks, 13 with a champ unless you've given your guys iron fists, then you could be throwing 15 (16). Not really something to cringe at, but it could be quite effective, especially with the boosts that gut magic can give.

Monstrous Infantry can attack in two ranks with up to three supporting attacks each. A 3x2 unit puts out 18 attacks, plus 3 s4 stomps. For instance, a unit of Ogres kills 6 GW wielding dwarves.

I wonder if they'd bring in something about them eating their opponents, like instead of a stomp attack they get a bite attack where they try to eat their enemy to sacrifice him to the great maw. Heroic bite on GD's

Cryonicleech wrote:But on a quick note: If you're gonna start Ogres, buy the battalion ASAP. GW will probably raise the price/edit the battalion, making it slightly less useful.

Too late, they've been taken off the site

Murdock129 wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:But on a quick note: If you're gonna start Ogres, buy the battalion ASAP. GW will probably raise the price/edit the battalion, making it slightly less useful.

Too late, they've been taken off the site

It's still on the US site and since the OP has a US flag, there's still time.

ZOMG the new models. Well, except for the ones on the sabertusks, but the rest... ZOMG!!!