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firstly i typed 'how to beat orks with kustom force field' and how to beat orks' in the search function, but it just said it couldn't find anything.

so.. basically my question is this;

how would i go about beating a ork horde army, one that uses a KFF and is highly likey to be set up like so;

1 Big Mek (HQ) @ 115 Pts
'Eavy Armour; #Mek's Tools; Power Klaw (x1); Kustom Force Field;
Stikkbombz

29 Ork Boyz (Troops) @ 245 Pts
Rokkit Launcha (x3); Shoota (x26)

1 Nob @ [41] Pts
Power Klaw (x1); Slugga (x1)

29 Ork Boyz (Troops) @ 245 Pts
Rokkit Launcha (x3); Shoota (x26)

1 Nob @ [41] Pts
Power Klaw (x1); Slugga (x1)

5 Nobz (Elites) @ 400 Pts
'Eavy Armour (x5); Big Choppa (x2); Power Klaw (x3); Slugga (x5); Bosspole
(x1); Waaagh! Banner (x1)

1 Battlewagon @ [170] Pts
Grot Riggers; Red Paint Job; Stikkbom Chucka; Armour Plates; Rokkit
Launcha (x4); Zzap Gun

3 Nobz (Elites) @ 75 Pts
Big Choppa (x3); Slugga (x3)

1 Deff Dread (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts
Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; Grot Riggers; Armour
Plates; Dreadnought CC Weapon (x2); Kustom Mega-Blasta; Rokkit Launcha

1 Killa Kan (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC Weapon;
Kustom Mega-Blasta

1 Killa Kan #1 @ [45] Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC
Weapon; Grotzooka

1 Killa Kan #2 @ [50] Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC
Weapon; Rokkit Launcha

1 Looted Wagon (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
'Ard Case; Armour Plates; Red Paint Job; Grot Riggers; Boomgun; Rokkit
Launcha (x2)

Models in Army: 75


Total Army Cost: 1500

at present i have a catachan battleforce, i have straken and a vanquisher which will have a counts as pask included, my two squads will be vet squads with AC's, one with meltas and one with plasmas. my CCS with straken is bascally all flamers and a heavy flamer.

it looks something like this;

HQ - CCS w/ colnel iron hand straken, reg standard, HF, flamer x2, 2x bodyguard - 220

TROOPS - vet squad w/ PW, PP PG x3, AC - 135 IG
- vet squad w/ PF, meltagun x3, AC - 125

FAST ATTACK - sentinel w/ AC - 40

HEAVY SUPPORT - vanquisher w/ knight commander pask, LC - 220

it may sound like a daft question, but my friends' calm composure makes me think perhaps the KFF is a threat? surely i can outrange him and shoot his KFF guy to s@$t? i know i need more stuff to equal his points value, but what???


thanks in advance

More flamers. They ignore cover.

Shooting, shooting shooting.

Texas has got it right, flamers, as the KFF counts as a cover save.
In case you don't know, the KFF creates a bubble (6" around him) where everyone gets a cover save (it's been months since I played, but I wanna say... 5+? the scary part is it gives vehicles hull down, so 4+ saves, making his kans and battlewagon scary as hell).

If you have artilerry that ignores cover, that's good, and any template weapons will blow away his troop choices and give you tactical superiority.

The KFF guy will be hiding inside a battlewagon or behind something else big. You won't have direct LOS to him unless your friend is insane. He is pretty squishy for an ork hq, but passing out cover saves to everyone within 6'' is the main reason to take him.

He also allows you to take a Deff dredd as a troop choice

5+ cover to infantry, obscured to vehicles within 6''.

Looks to that with what you have you want to pop his battle wagon asap and then thump some flamers into his KFF boy

once thats done you spend the rest of the game dropping his boyz squads and his walkers

watch for the nobs they could be a problem but ur plasma should stop them flat

Orks are fairly easily gunned down. I play orks,and bring dustpanb and brush to scoop the dead into...

What they have on their side is numbers. Orks are cheap in points, and will outnumber you heavily, usually.

KFF will really help buff his kanz and battlewagon, and it's armour 14 on the front. Its a priority target, but hard to crack. It's far weaker on the rear and sides.

The KFF boy can also attach himself to other units to give himself ablative wounds, or hide behind a deffdredd/trukk/whatever to keep out of los.

A good tactic vs ork vehicles is to get them from behind. Unfortunately Guard don't have that many things that can do this that don't cost an arm and a leg to buy at the FLGS.

Pieplate fire on his boyz mobs, lascannons on his vehicles

Some heavy weapons teams might be a good purchase

aha very good points there. flamers makes sense, my CCS has tons of flamers but i guess as a first time guard plaer there is much more to think about than lobbing your hq into the fray. artillery sounds like a plus too. perhaps hellhounds are a must then? as for artillery, i wouldn't have the slightest what to choose, maybe griffons? for thier indirect fire? i like the medusa but its 36" inch range seems a bit low for an artillery piece

baoh wrote:aha very good points there. flamers makes sense, my CCS has tons of flamers but i guess as a first time guard plaer there is much more to think about than lobbing your hq into the fray. artillery sounds like a plus too. perhaps hellhounds are a must then? as for artillery, i wouldn't have the slightest what to choose, maybe griffons? for thier indirect fire? i like the medusa but its 36" inch range seems a bit low for an artillery piece

Templates + pie plates. If you ahve FA, move around or outflank to kill the looted wagon that will stay back. Kill the Nobz foot slogging (2 units, one will ahve to be on foot) with S8 attacks to ID them. If you can blow up the BW, kill the NObz ASAP as they are the hardest hittting unit there. Also, make sure he does not get the charge.

Also, his list has a pertty low number of boyz. 60 boyz arent that much once the nobz are out.

Here is how I would split my fire:
Lascannon = BW (S8 hits won't do much since he has 5 or so weapons on it, it will take too much time to do anything)
S8 = split between the dread and the nobz
S7 and S6 = kans
Pie plates = boyz

The looted wagon should be staying behind and out fo the KFF to shoot its boom gun, its only AV11 so if you get a clear shot on him, blow it up with anything that could.

Keep your distance and bring lots of ordnance barrage. Heavy flamers and regular flamers loaded up into a chimera would be very useful, as would a hellhound variant.

I play Orks, and the hellhound scares me senseless. Being able to drop a template in the center of my mobs is horrifying and very effective.

-cgmckenzie

if all else fails, if you are going to be charged next turn and there is no way out of it and if you can possibly charge them... deny thier furious charge. move 6 inches toward, shoot assault weapons and then assault in

cool, i was thinking of getting a colossus siege thing. so thats a blast (pie plate) weapon and im sure it said in the codex that it denies cover saves. my vet squads and straken's squad are going to have chimeras, i was thinking multi laser/ HF should do the trick? i would like some hellhounds but another thread on here seems to have mixed opinions about thier usefulness. i guess its also the luck of the die, im planning on maybe having another sentinel with an autocannon for extra annoyance and the hellhounds for the fantastic flame fury. maybe another squadron of sentinels with HF'? scout one that is

Artillery and heavy bolters. But keep an assault unit close at hand in case they get ta killin'

I've found that combining (the order that causes re-rolls of successful cover saves) and an autocannon hwt is effective against kanz with kff.
If you can get your hands on the model a manticore is awesome against the list your playing against. s10 ordnance is great against armor and d3 pie plates usually means you are killing something.

MarbosMiyagi wrote:I've found that combining (the order that causes re-rolls of successful cover saves) and an autocannon hwt is effective against kanz with kff.
If you can get your hands on the model a manticore is awesome against the list your playing against. s10 ordnance is great against armor and d3 pie plates usually means you are killing something.

lol im glad you say that because the manticore would fit into my army fluffwise. i never considered it before, because i thought it may be one of those units that GW brought out just to look cool!

Its been mentioned, but just Burn those freaks, flamers are your friends.

Tortured-Robot wrote:Its been mentioned, but just Burn those freaks, flamers are your friends.

Orks are not freaks!!!!!!! They are human and have rights!!!, oh s*** they are not, lol

Also, any gun will bypass their armor (Ap6 better) so all you have to do is wound.

Lots of decent advice up there. I would add:

Try the psyker battle squad. They lower the leadership, while your barrage weapons will cause pinning tests. So, psyke a big mob at the front and then hit them with the pie plates. Any wound will cause a pinning test, which they will fail. Now he has a big fat unit pinned and making an obstacle to his advance. Any vehicles behind it cannot go through it. If he uses kan wall and this trick would not work that well, you can always use the psykers to blast a vehicle instead (strength equal to number of psykers in the squad).

Guard can take mortars, right? Mortars are barrage, right? Use them.

Use orders like "first rank fire, second rank fire" to put more shots down range.

Tortured-Robot wrote:Its been mentioned, but just Burn those freaks, flamers are your friends.

Just don't complain when they do the same to you

They likes dem burnaz

Hellhound's terrify Orks. I'd recommend you don't design a counter list and do something thats good against all comers. What sort of Guard army do you want to do? Foot, Mech, Hybrid or Airborne? Any particular fluff you want to follow?

In my experience, one of the biggest things in combating orks: Deny them the charge. Ork boyz really, really suffer when they are charged, instead of them doing the charging. Even if your squad won't do much, if you know they are going to get charged no matter what, take the initiative and push in, denying the Orks their Furious Charge and Attack bonus.

Low Initiative also means that Orks can really suffer in close combat if things aren't going their way. If the Orks fail combat, and they they aren't fearless, they are almost always going to be run down if they fail their leadership. I've often seen squads of about 10 Orks being eradicated by one or two unimpressive combatants, simply because the Orks failed combat by a single wound or two.

Remaining Fearless also hurts when orks lose combat if they no longer have the bodies to take the hits - especially if the Ork unit is just on the verge of being Fearless (so, say, 11 boyz in the squad). I've had a squad of 11 boyz fail combat by five wounds, and since they were still fearless, they had to take the wounds, reducing the unit to only 6 boyz. It really, really sucks.

Actually, I've found forcing leadership tests on Orks is generally a really good tactic - or at least whittling down larger squads to get to that point. It's especially important for Lootas. With a large sized mob, the danger of running off the board becomes very real when Orks lose their Fearless rule.

Against KFF, try go melee. Trying to destroy KFF'd vehicles, particularly the BW that has the mek inside, is often infuriating. With melee, at least you're hitting rear armour and bypassing the KFF. That said, with a single Battlewagon, if you manage to stall that, you often end up stalling a very large portion of the Ork player's advance

This is all great stuff muahahaha

Manticores and vindettas. Iz hates em'. If you have two of each, get first turn, and have a good round of shooting... you will destroy the foundations of an Ork BW army. Just make sure you have the free hvy flamers on your chimeras and with mass las/plasma/melta shots you should be able to decimate the rest of the army.

Necrontyr40k wrote:
Try the psyker battle squad. They lower the leadership, while your barrage weapons will cause pinning tests. So, psyke a big mob at the front and then hit them with the pie plates. Any wound will cause a pinning test, which they will fail.

Wouldn't they automatically pass that pinning test because of Mob Rule? IIRC they will auto pass pinning and morale, but not leadership tests.

rabidaskal wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote:
Try the psyker battle squad. They lower the leadership, while your barrage weapons will cause pinning tests. So, psyke a big mob at the front and then hit them with the pie plates. Any wound will cause a pinning test, which they will fail.

Wouldn't they automatically pass that pinning test because of Mob Rule? IIRC they will auto pass pinning and morale, but not leadership tests.

That is right, I ahd to look it up last friday because my boyz got pinned by a whirlwind. A fearless unit will pas all morale and pinning test but must still roll for leadership tests

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news OP altho the ork list you are playing against is a long way from being a hard list you simply do not have the models to beat this army, even going mad with proxying is not going to help you as you dont have enough models to proxy.

I would suggest playing small gamse around 500 points untill you have a few more battle forces and a gak load more chimeras,vendettas etc.

Llamahead wrote:Hellhound's terrify Orks. I'd recommend you don't design a counter list and do something thats good against all comers. What sort of Guard army do you want to do? Foot, Mech, Hybrid or Airborne? Any particular fluff you want to follow?

well i have made my own fluff, its all here. might go with the hellhounds, not sure yet - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/382558.page

Davylove21 wrote:This is all great stuff muahahaha

haha keep watching, it'll help boost your confidence!

Jubear wrote:Sorry to be the bearer of bad news OP altho the ork list you are playing against is a long way from being a hard list you simply do not have the models to beat this army, even going mad with proxying is not going to help you as you dont have enough models to proxy.

I would suggest playing small gamse around 500 points untill you have a few more battle forces and a gak load more chimeras,vendettas etc.

yeah i am aware that at the moment my list is gak, i have yet to buy new models. the most recent addition is 3 chimeras which i have just managed to build today!

As an ork player, couldnt agree more with the denying them the charge. We lose 1 attack per model (which is usually heaps), and probably have to now roll 5s to wound!

Be careful using flamers. Its what, an 8 inch template? Thats assault range.
On this flipside, a lot of flame attacks will decimate the force, and even if they charge and kill you, you can counter charge them with your melee squad you had waiting behind your flame units.

I can't even say whether shooting at their KFF covered vehicles is worth it. Half of all hits will be ignored. And its not like you'll be pulling out more than 6 high str weapon shots at a single target in a single turn. Thats a horribly low success rate statistically.

EDIT: Walkers are a great way to tie up a horde of orks. Only the PK nob can do anything, and he'll probably stun it forever. Sadly you have to use a whole walker to do so.

I don't play IG, but Rough Riders seem like a fun unit that can be good against that kind of hybrid mech/foot blob. Flamers and Grenade Launchers both hurt the blobs, and with Cavalry rules you can swoop in from long distance to get the charge advantage. If they use vehicles to screen their troops, you can always assault the vehicles with S5 lances and melta bombs. It's a suicide unit, but it's cheap enough that you won't miss the points, and hopefully it can tie up a unit or two for a turn or two while you keep shooting.