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Ok, which one, guys? Also, let me know if you think any of the lists can be improved upon.


GK List #1
Crowe
Librarian - Warding Stave, Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Dark Excommunication + either 1 servo-skull or 1 more psychic power - 215

5x Paladins - 2x Psycannons, Warding Stave, Brotherhood Banner, 1x Halberd, 1x Sword, 1x Hammer - 360
Psyfleman Vendread - 195
Psyfleman Vendread - 195

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Strikers - 1x Psycannon, Razorback w/Psybolt + Searchlights - 161
5x Strikers - 1x Psycannon, Razorback w/Psybolt + Searchlights - 161

Stormraven - TL-Las, TL-MM - Extra Armor - 220

Psyfleman Dread - 135
Psyfleman Dread - 135

TOTAL - 2500


GK List #2
Crowe
Librarian - Warding Stave, Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Dark Excommunication - 210

Psyfleman Vendread - 195
Psyfleman Vendread - 195

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Strikers - 1x Psycannon, Rhino w/Searchlights - 151
5x Strikers - 1x Psycannon, Rhino w/Searchlights - 151
5x Terminators - 1x Psycannon, Brotherhood Banner, 1x Halberd, 1x Sword, 1x Hammer - 250

Stormraven - TL-Las, TL-MM - Extra Armor - 220

Psyfleman Dread - 135
Psyfleman Dread - 135
Psyfleman Dread - 135

TOTAL - 2500


GK List #3
Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 195
Psyfleman Vendread - 195
Techmarine - Conversion Beamer, Rad Grenades, 3x Servo-skulls - 129

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Rhino w/Dozers - 191
5x Strike Squad - 1x Psycannon, Razorback w/Psybolt + Searchlights - 161

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt, Hammer - 310

Psyfleman Dread - 135
Psyfleman Dread - 135
Psyfleman Dread - 135

TOTAL - 2500

I think my personal favorite is list #2. The main differences I saw were paladins or termies/dread in lists 1 and 2, and stormraven or interceptors in lists 2 and 3. When fighting grey knights, the librarian is always a high priority target of mine, because there is so much he does to strengthen your army, which makes me lean towards 1 or 2. I haven't fought a stormraven yet, but in my experience interceptors haven't been much use. Another bump for 1 or 2. Then, paladins or termies/dreadnought. One increases shooting, the other increases CC capability. With all the purifiers on the table, having even more close combat doesn't seem necessary. Another dreadnought is a great bonus to shooting, while terminators will still hold up well in CC. Of course, I'm not a grey knights player, nor have I seen many of the more competitive tricks they can run. The biggest disadvantage I see is that the librarian (target #1) is sitting in an a large, fast, assault vehicle (target #2), and will be the first to eat missile pod/autocannon fire. How has a stormraven worked out for you so far? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I've actually only ever used the Stormraven once (against Janthkin's nids), though I've played against it several times. They're actually more resilient than I thought, especially if you put a librarian in there. Move flat-out, still fire 1 gun due to Power of the Machine Spirit and then cast Shrouding on the opponent's turn for a 3+ cover.

The problem with my current lists is my mobility. As with any other rhino-rush army, I'm only as fast as my rhinos. I'd have problems against some of the faster armies (that is, if they can survive my psyfleman dreads). Thus, to alleviate this problem, I'm turning either towards the stormraven or interceptors.

You have to really understand the strengths and weaknesses of the interceptors. They are a very good finesse unit that, when played right, can potentially win you the game. However, they are also a fragile unit that needs to be played with a little bit of caution.


Let's, some of the strengths and weaknesses of each list:

List #1
Strengths
Paladins are ultra-tough and can handle enemy deathstar units.
They're hard to get off of objectives with 2+ and 3+ cover saves.
They're insta-kill nids with their brotherhood banners.
Stormraven mindstrike missiles are devastating to psykers!

Weaknesses
Only 5 scoring units.
Less shooting.
While resilient, stormravens will still go down to spammed missiles, psyfleman dreads, hive guards, lance-spam, etc.


List #2
Strengths
6 scoring units.
Better shooting from range.
Terminators for troops.
Stormraven mindstrike missiles are devastating to psykers!

Weaknesses
Terminators are not as resilient as paladins.
While resilient, stormravens will still go down to spammed missiles, psyfleman dreads, hive guards, lance-spam, etc.


List #3
Strengths
6 scoring units.
Excellent shooting.
Boosted 3+ cover for 1 camping, scoring unit due to Techmarine.
Lots of purifiers.
Interceptors can combat squad for 2 highly mobile units.
No single point-sink unit that screws you over if it goes down. Units are fairly evenly distributed points-wise.

Weaknesses
Infantry not as durable as terminators.
No unit to really draw fire (i.e. stormraven-deathstar-terminators-of-doom unit)
Need to be careful of how you play the fragile interceptors.

I hadn't thought about combat squading interceptors! That makes multiple small units, I like that a lot better. On the GK tourney boards, you'll have plenty of terrain to block LoS. All the lists sound good, and don't take my choice too seriously, because I am not an expert on Grey Knights or even any type of marines. I tried to play marines twice, and failed pretty badly. I'm sticking to xenos now!

I feel that having the ability to drop, assault in, and autoForceWeapon a threat is worth spending the points on at 2500, multiwound targets seem common enough.

I personally make use of a single Stormraven with librarian/paladin myself and I find the mix of high mobility and decent weapon mix gives it an excellent moving threat range. If they focus it, it gives your psyflemen more time to work. It's also not bad at randomly breaking a horde by firing four missiles and the assault cannnon into them, or alternatively putting missiles on their anti-psyker psyker. It's nice when they plop down a farseer and grin at you as if they've won, then your psyflemen dump him out of his transport and he eats mindstrike perils. I feel that the ability to hunt down Runes of Warding and psychic hoods by inducing perils is a little better than shunting over and pumping psybolts into them. Four shots at BS4 makes it very improbable you won't get at least one to psishock.

I say list one as it has paladins and they're just so much better value than terminators. The squad seems to have 6 cc weapons though - stave, hammer, banner, sword, 2 halberds. I think it needs the stave for sure, given it's with the Librarian I think you could lose a halberd. I'd ditch the extra armour and the servo skull and give the Raven multi-melta and autocannon with psybolts. 2 venerable dreadnoughts and two ordinary should be enough.

List two I like least, a single squad of terminators lacks the hitting power, firepower and durability of the paladins and adding a dreadnought isn't enough to make up for that I think.

List three I'm not sure about. My instinct is that 10 Interceptors and a dreadnought aren't as useful to the list as a whole as a 'raven plus paladins. I think the lack of a fire-magnet is kind of a plus though as it's more likely the enemy will haver between targets.

All three lists are pretty decent I think (hard not to be with a 2+2 dreadnought core. But I definitely think two is the weakest. Three and one are so different in their approach that I don't think my preference for the first is borne out of anything but familiarity.

Gus Indo wrote:I hadn't thought about combat squading interceptors! That makes multiple small units, I like that a lot better. On the GK tourney boards, you'll have plenty of terrain to block LoS. All the lists sound good, and don't take my choice too seriously, because I am not an expert on Grey Knights or even any type of marines. I tried to play marines twice, and failed pretty badly. I'm sticking to xenos now!

Every opinion is worth listening to, whether you are an expert in the army or not. Even if you don't play the army, you are giving me valuable feedback from an opponent's perspective which can be something I have not considered.

GreyHamster wrote:I feel that having the ability to drop, assault in, and autoForceWeapon a threat is worth spending the points on at 2500, multiwound targets seem common enough.

I personally make use of a single Stormraven with librarian/paladin myself and I find the mix of high mobility and decent weapon mix gives it an excellent moving threat range. If they focus it, it gives your psyflemen more time to work. It's also not bad at randomly breaking a horde by firing four missiles and the assault cannnon into them, or alternatively putting missiles on their anti-psyker psyker. It's nice when they plop down a farseer and grin at you as if they've won, then your psyflemen dump him out of his transport and he eats mindstrike perils. I feel that the ability to hunt down Runes of Warding and psychic hoods by inducing perils is a little better than shunting over and pumping psybolts into them. Four shots at BS4 makes it very improbable you won't get at least one to psishock.

Yeah, one thing I noticed is that the GK stormraven really does a number on psykers. In my first time using it, I easily killed a tervigon with minimal fire and by forcing it to take 4 perils. That's another advantage of stormravens I must include....it's a psyker hunter.

Artemo wrote:I say list one as it has paladins and they're just so much better value than terminators. The squad seems to have 6 cc weapons though - stave, hammer, banner, sword, 2 halberds. I think it needs the stave for sure, given it's with the Librarian I think you could lose a halberd. I'd ditch the extra armour and the servo skull and give the Raven multi-melta and autocannon with psybolts. 2 venerable dreadnoughts and two ordinary should be enough.

Thanks for the bit on the paladins/terminators. Took out 1 halberd to make it legal. Never really used the Brotherhood Banner before. With the raven, you mean psybolt assault cannon, right? I don't recall them being able to take autocannons.

I've been debating on the two - the lascannon and the assault cannon. I actually like the assault cannon better. However, I seem to have problems with certain units like broadsides and obliterators. Also, I'm concerned about coming into shooting range of a tyranid hive guard-heavy army. The lascannon lets me better deal with these type of units better. As for anti-infantry, guess I'm going to be relying on my dreads, purifiers and paladins to take care of them.

I'd like to try to keep the EA on the raven if possible. A non-moving raven is a dead raven...but a moving raven gets a 3+ cover! I guess if I really need the points, then I would drop it.

List two I like least, a single squad of terminators lacks the hitting power, firepower and durability of the paladins and adding a dreadnought isn't enough to make up for that I think.

List three I'm not sure about. My instinct is that 10 Interceptors and a dreadnought aren't as useful to the list as a whole as a 'raven plus paladins. I think the lack of a fire-magnet is kind of a plus though as it's more likely the enemy will haver between targets.

All three lists are pretty decent I think (hard not to be with a 2+2 dreadnought core. But I definitely think two is the weakest. Three and one are so different in their approach that I don't think my preference for the first is borne out of anything but familiarity.

I agree here. I think it's looking more and more like either list #1 or #3.

Yeah, sorry, I always get autocannon and assault cannon mixed up in what passes for my brain.

I'm not sure about the banner on a 5 man + Librarian squad. Six man squad with Draigo and Librarian is well worth a banner. 5 seems borderline.. He gives 5 extra nemesis attacks for 25 points, I suppose. Bit like taking all falchions... but you get the extra attack with the hammer too, which might be handy. Probably worth it, but I'd magnetise the arm...

One thing you could do is field the raven empty but with a teleport homer and then deep-strike the Librarian and Paladins into terrain (not as risky as it seems really). Because otherwise, if you want them to assault, you're going to lose your 3+ save anyway for a turn and you'll have to get close to the enemy too. There are big negatives to that though... no Shrouding for the 'raven, and if it gets shot down you have to randomly strike. Probably best not to in a list sans psychic communion. I'm more thinking out loud here than anything, but quite often a stormraven without a payload seems less of a threat to the enemy in my somewhat limited experience of fielding them so.

GK stormravens are largely just dropships with some limited ability to shoot. Mindstrike missiles aren't generally as brutal as the bloodstrikes that Angels bring, though they have their uses. EA is kind of debatable 'cause of Fortitude, but, well, if it's off hunting antipsykers, it may well need it.

The turret weapon is really up for debate. Punching through 2+ armor at range isn't something the codex does well in general, but with MM/Las the SR doesn't have a whole lot of duality. After the paladins are on the ground it becomes pretty much a tank hunter and has no ability to make large squads sweat. The assault cannon can sort of make up for that, but without hurricane bolters it's not great at it and with them, you can't take psybolts effectively. The turret gun is always what I'm unsure about. I usually default to assault cannon since it can rend heavy armor and it's going to be up close anyways.

As for banners on terminators, I think it's mainly worth it for one reason alone, being able to activate FW without rolling and thus dodging Shadows in the Warp and similar. It strikes me that no one worth worrying about is going to be going to Ard Boyz without psyker defense.